You’re Asking The WRONG Question About Sexual Frequency (Here’s What Actually Matters)

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Ed Swinger
Here’s a question that everyone’s thinking about but nobody wants to answer honestly. How often are you actually having sex?

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Ed Swinger
here’s what nobody tells you. You’ve been asking the completely wrong question.

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Ed Swinger
There’s this number floating around. You know the one. Society’s little benchmark for a healthy relationship.

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Ed Swinger
Today, we’re going to destroy that myth but more than that, we’re going to reveal something about desire that will completely change how you think about sex in your relationship.

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Ed Swinger
We’re going to talk about why 80% of women can’t orgasm the way we’ve been told they should.

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Ed Swinger
And the one thing you can start building today that will transform your sex life without adding pressure.

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Ed Swinger
if you’ve ever felt broken, out of sync with your partner, or wondered why the passion faded, this one’s for you.

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Ed Swinger
Let’s get real about what actually matters.

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Ed Swinger
Well, folks, let’s talk about this frequency myth.

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Phoebe Swinger
Yeah, we get stuck comparing ourselves to something that we’ve heard. There’s this cultural pressure where society tells us that there’s this normal number that we should adhere to for the number of times that we should have sex in a week, in a month, in a year, et cetera. Otherwise you’re just broken.

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Ed Swinger
Right, and there’s that beginning of relationship number. And then there’s like, once you’re married, there’s the number changes. There’s all these numbers that they keep throwing around. So we have to fit this box.

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Phoebe Swinger
Right, so the pervasive three times a week standard and where this number came from.

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Ed Swinger
All right.

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Phoebe Swinger
We’re gonna launch into that. And then why comparing yourselves to others kills your sex life.

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Phoebe Swinger
The truth bomb about all of this is

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Phoebe Swinger
there’s no magic number or yardstick. Right.

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Phoebe Swinger
Quality over quantity every single time. What the research actually shows about satisfaction versus frequency is that satisfaction wins.

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Phoebe Swinger
Right.

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Phoebe Swinger
The reality check for some of the statistics are that on the average for UK, because these stats came from the UK,

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Phoebe Swinger
the average is three times a month. But over 40% of the women want more than that.

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Phoebe Swinger
So this isn’t a statistic that says you have to have it three times a month and it’s certainly not worldwide. It is a small statistic in one area.

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Ed Swinger
This is just what people reported that they had, right?

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Phoebe Swinger
Right, right. And then 52% of the women actually want better sex.

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Phoebe Swinger
So the key insight really is people just want improvement, not just more.

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Ed Swinger
Yeah, and we hear this phrase all the time. It’s quality over quantity. Heck, we’re hearing it about social media all the time. But it applies to sex too. The quality of the sex is way more important than the quantity of the sex, like how often you’re having it.

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Phoebe Swinger
Right. I mean,

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Phoebe Swinger
it isn’t really rocket science when you break it down to, let’s just say you’re a compulsive shopper, right? You’re shopping for the best deal and getting the cheapest things. Well, you’re getting low quality. Maybe you’ve got a budget and you’re just buying low quality things, maybe on one of those apps that ship in from overseas.

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Phoebe Swinger
I have done that plenty of times. I spend $5 for a three set piece of lingerie and I buy,

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Phoebe Swinger
oh gosh, I’ve been known to buy like 20 items at a time for like 50 bucks, right?

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Ed Swinger
Yeah, this is the cruise shopping trip, the pre-cruise shopping trip, yeah.

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Phoebe Swinger
And they all come in and they’re all, and though you’ve done the measurements and you think the size is gonna fit you, they never do. They’re sized strangely and they fit most people or I don’t even know if they fit most people.

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Ed Swinger
One size fits some.

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Phoebe Swinger
One size fits some. And so out of 20 items, you go, yeah, I may have gotten one or two and you’re like, okay, $25 each, you toss the rest or you donate them because there’s no way you can return it, it costs too much to return it. Right. So there’s that, you’re not getting quality, it just be better and honestly, it would have been a better use of my time because you know how long it took me to find those.

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Ed Swinger
Right, and find the right size.

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(Vocalizing)

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Phoebe Swinger
It would have been better just to go to a quality lingerie shop, try it on, get the one, spend 80 bucks or $100 on it and have it.

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Ed Swinger
And get one amazing piece of lingerie.

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Phoebe Swinger
Yes, that fits my body, that is just stellar

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Phoebe Swinger
and it’s quality and it’ll last for years. Right.

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Phoebe Swinger
So why are we having less sex?

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Phoebe Swinger
What’s really getting in the way? Let us know, tell us Ed.

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Ed Swinger
Yeah, so we’ll just get to it. Modern life is really killing intimacy and people are having less sex than in the past two decades

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Ed Swinger
because we are as a whole, overwhelmed, stressed,

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Ed Swinger
constantly distracted.

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Phoebe Swinger
Huh, what, really?

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Phoebe Swinger
Squirrel.

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(Laughing)

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Ed Swinger
Social media, jobs, phones, television,

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Ed Swinger
like everything is competing for our attention. And actually I think this has traditionally been a statistic and that’s why married couples or couples with kids have less sex because they got just too much stuff going on. Oh yeah. And what it really boils down to is you have no mental space left.

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Ed Swinger
Literally your give a fuck meter is depleted. There’s nothing left.

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Phoebe Swinger
Yeah.

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Ed Swinger
You’ve got no mental capacity, physical capacity for any

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Phoebe Swinger
desire to merge.

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Ed Swinger
Yeah, it just got sucked out of you by life. Yeah. And the noise.

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Phoebe Swinger
Yes, I understand this 100%. So then you’ve got these mental blocks, right?

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Phoebe Swinger
Mental distractions equals less arousal, which equals less desire. You’ve got day-to-day worries and stress. It impacts your body’s response because stress hormones, not good.

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Ed Swinger
Yeah, yeah, the cortisol, right?

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Phoebe Swinger
Yeah, not good for body responses.

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Phoebe Swinger
And then for men.

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Ed Swinger
Oh God, performance anxiety. Yeah, we’ve done a whole episode on this.

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Ed Swinger
It happens to even the most virile of men and you get into a playroom, you get into a situation and am I doing it right? Does she feel right? Am I paying attention to my partner or my wife or is something going on in the background? Someone’s having a conversation, I’m distracted.

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Phoebe Swinger
Is she having a good time? Is she feeling pleasure? Right.

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Ed Swinger
All of this stuff.

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Phoebe Swinger
Am I going to be able to release and is that expected of me? Oh my gosh. Blah, blah, blah.

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Ed Swinger
You get into this vicious cycle where you can’t get out of your head. And we’ve talked about this before where it just gets worse because you end up in this loop where you’re constantly thinking about it and trying to not think about it makes you think about it because you’re thinking about not thinking about it. Right.

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Phoebe Swinger
It’s evil.

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Ed Swinger
And there’s one thing you can’t think about and you can’t stop now.

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Phoebe Swinger
And then this one for us living together and we live together 24 seven essentially. Post COVID when our jobs went remote full time,

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Phoebe Swinger
we are together 24 seven. Our office is the same room.

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Ed Swinger
Right. We sit back to back to each other. Yeah. And when we’re not working, we’re in this room having conversations.

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Phoebe Swinger
Right.

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Ed Swinger
And when we’re not here, we’re out doing things to get food, to get whatever.

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Phoebe Swinger
Right.

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Ed Swinger
So yeah, we don’t get a break from each other. We don’t get that kind of like, oh, it’s so good to see you again. I’ve missed you.

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Phoebe Swinger
Right.

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Ed Swinger
Because I see you all the time.

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Phoebe Swinger
Yeah, we have friends that have spouses that have just crazy travel schedules and they get to separate and come back together and separate and come back together. And that’s way different for us. Right. And so proximity reduces that novelty over time. Right. And it also has that loss of sexual currency. Yeah. Which you get with flirty texts and compliments and lounging around naked or bone sex if you’re in a hotel because you’re traveling. Right. Right. You don’t have that.

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Ed Swinger
Yeah. Yeah. It’s silly to sit on opposite ends of the couch and text each other sexy messages. It just doesn’t have the same ring to it. And we’re working and so all I have to do is turn around and see you. And so you just don’t think about that kind of stuff. And I’ll get up and walk past you and give you a little kiss on the head and things like that.

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Phoebe Swinger
Oh, yes. We’re very good at that.

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Ed Swinger
I like touching you, but it’s still not quite the same as having that separation to kind of create a little bit of longing. Right. And yeah, we’ve seen it kind of affect our sex life in our relationship.

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Phoebe Swinger
Yeah. And then those relationship roles, they tend to become too defined. Right.

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Ed Swinger
Who’s the instigator? Who’s the person who’s whatever asking for.

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Phoebe Swinger
Right. And we’re gonna get into that too.

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Phoebe Swinger
Which is desire doesn’t work how you think it does,

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Phoebe Swinger
which was mind blowing to me.

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Ed Swinger
Right.

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Phoebe Swinger
So the game changing reframe based on this,

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Phoebe Swinger
we’re all operating on this old model that or the traditional view that we wait to feel like it. Right. And then act on it. And this is a model that stems all the way back to the 1950s.

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Ed Swinger
Sure.

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Phoebe Swinger
And the media portrays that there’s lust and passion and spontaneity, right? Look at your, those perfume ads are the best, one of the best ones for that, right? I mean, they’ve even made a food ads that are.

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Ed Swinger
Oh yeah. The new Cheez-Its one talks about the, they’re reading the bodice ripper in a study group and they’re like,

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Ed Swinger
I desire you, Mr. Cheezy.

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Phoebe Swinger
I know. I looked at you across the couch and I went, they just sexified Cheez-Its.

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Speaker 1
Yeah.

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(Laughing)

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Speaker 1
Yeah.

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Phoebe Swinger
I’m like, oh my God, what is happening?

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Ed Swinger
Yeah. So there’s always this kind of traditional portrayal of desire and how it works. And then did you just, you know, when you see somebody from across the room, you just feel that desire. Well, sometimes you don’t, right? Sometimes you’re not in the mood for it.

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Phoebe Swinger
Yeah. And it’s a problem, especially for women because it just sets up a failure in long-term relationships, especially when a woman is conditioned that this is how it’s supposed to happen. This is the model that I need to follow. These are the roles that people fall into. And so when I get into a relationship, this is the formula.

[00:13:10;08 – 00:13:21;04]
Ed Swinger
Yeah. And I’ll go so far as to say, I suspect that’s why a lot of monogamous relationships actually fail. It’s because, well, I just don’t feel passionate about that person anymore.

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Ed Swinger
And, you know, there just isn’t that spark.

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Speaker 2
Right.

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Ed Swinger
And I think that is this fundamental misunderstanding of how you keep the spark alive and how you keep a relationship

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Ed Swinger
in that kind of sense of spontaneity and desire.

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Phoebe Swinger
Right.

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Phoebe Swinger
There are two types of desire. The spontaneous desire and the responsive desire.

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Phoebe Swinger
So talk about the spontaneous desire.

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Ed Swinger
Yeah. So this is the one that you see in movies all the time where it’s like, you know, you see each other, you run towards each other, you tear each other’s clothes off and there’s this novelty to it, you know, and you really get this kind of instantaneous like love or lust at first sight. Now, not that that doesn’t happen, but that’s how it’s portrayed. And I think that that’s the one that everybody kind of equates with desire, where you have to have, you have to like instantly get aroused because you see this person. And it’s really common in new relationships, especially with men, because of the whole testosterone and androgens thing. We’ve got chemicals running through us that go,

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Ed Swinger
“Mm, hot woman, me see.”

[00:14:47;06 – 00:14:48;03]
(Bridget Laughs)

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Ed Swinger
And, you know, we run across the room, we attack her because we’re just horned up.

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Phoebe Swinger
Right. But when you see someone on a regular basis,

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Phoebe Swinger
you really do need that novelty in the relationship to add a little,

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Phoebe Swinger
to add that spark back. Right. Where a lot of people have found EMM, right? And hanging out in open-minded communities

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Phoebe Swinger
to spark that desire in their own relationship, whether it be just watching.

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Speaker 1
Right.

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Phoebe Swinger
Right, because there’s, what are we calling that, defining those people the other day, vanilla.

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Ed Swinger
Oh, dirty vanillas.

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Phoebe Swinger
Dirty vanillas.

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Ed Swinger
Yeah, this is a new, a new emerging term where they don’t play with other people, but they like being around other people. We used to call them swing or adjacent, because it’s like they’re supporters of the community, but they’re not in the community.

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Phoebe Swinger
Right, right.

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Phoebe Swinger
Then there’s responsive desire,

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Phoebe Swinger
where the desire emerges out of being sexual. Right. So your engagement actually triggers the desire, not the other way around. It’s like a fake it till you make it kind of thing.

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Ed Swinger
Yeah, yeah. And that’s the sense of touching frequently and building up that sexual currency that you were talking about before. And you can kind of think of that as like, every time you brush up against your partner, or you say something saucy to them, you’re adding money into this bank, into this desire bank. And over time, it builds up. And so that you kind of have this just general sense of arousal around that person, because you’re constantly feeding that.

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Phoebe Swinger
Yes, that works very well for women. It does also work well for men, but more so for women. Right.

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Phoebe Swinger
The other key insight is,

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Phoebe Swinger
you don’t have to feel like it before you start.

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Ed Swinger
Right.

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Phoebe Swinger
Which was also shocking to me. And, but that plays into what you were just saying about the currency, right? You’re, we know someone who is really good. They’re good friends of ours. He’s very good at taking his wife out on a long day date and extending the whole day is one long date and foreplay session.

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Ed Swinger
Right.

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Phoebe Swinger
It involves good food and involves shopping. He’s doting on her, taking care of her, teasing her, petting her, dropping little hints in her ear about what’s potentially going to be happening that evening. She doesn’t know exactly, but he’s got this master plan. Right.

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Phoebe Swinger
And, you know, as the day progresses, there’s this acceleration of anticipation.

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Phoebe Swinger
And then by the time evening rolls around and it’s time to engage together,

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Phoebe Swinger
she’s, you know, she’s right up there. Right. She’s ready mentally.

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Phoebe Swinger
She’s in that right spot.

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Phoebe Swinger
Which is why this concept of, I’m going to wait to do anything with anybody, especially in the swing or circle until the stars align or it just has to feel right.

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Phoebe Swinger
Honestly,

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Phoebe Swinger
in swinging, if you hear this phrase from another couple, it’s never going to happen.

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Phoebe Swinger
If that’s what they tell you, oh, we’re very selective or the stars have to align or we just have to, it has to feel right. The moment has to be right. Move on.

[00:19:14;20 – 00:19:15;11]
Ed Swinger
Right.

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Phoebe Swinger
Move on.

[00:19:16;15 – 00:19:26;05]
Ed Swinger
You’re literally playing the lottery. You’re hoping, you’re hoping that they’re going to just feel the right way at the right time when you happen to be there.

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Phoebe Swinger
Or you’re going to do something to make them feel that way. And you can’t make anyone feel a certain way. Right. So unless they’re telling you, unless they say,

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Phoebe Swinger
I really like these things, words work really well for me. I like when a man uses a lot of words. I like when a man touches me. I like when a man does X, Y, Z. If they’re actively engaging you and telling you what they like as an individual, yes, then definitely go for it. But if they’re not and they’re just like,

[00:20:04;04 – 00:20:15;08]
Phoebe Swinger
you know, when the moon wraps around Saturn and it’s 2035, you’re like, I mean, if you’re only there for a weekend or an evening or a week.

[00:20:15;08 – 00:20:15;23]
Ed Swinger
Good luck.

[00:20:15;23 – 00:20:18;19]
Phoebe Swinger
You know, the world is your oyster. Go find another oyster.

[00:20:20;28 – 00:20:27;02]
Ed Swinger
We found that kind of same room and parallel play and kind of that whole puppy pile thing.

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Phoebe Swinger
Oh, yes.

[00:20:27;17 – 00:20:46;29]
Ed Swinger
Just being in the playroom worked really well for us because you’re kind of, once again, you’re surrounding yourself by that sexy environment. And, you know, you’re involved in it. You’re in it. And so you start to, starts to kind of rub off on you. I mean, sometimes literally it rubs on you.

[00:20:46;29 – 00:20:46;29]
(Laughing)

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Ed Swinger
But just the mood and the sounds and the sexy vibe, it’s right there.

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Phoebe Swinger
Yes. Especially for me, especially if it’s more of an intimate environment. Right.

[00:21:02;20 – 00:21:02;26]
Phoebe Swinger
And the,

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Phoebe Swinger
which could be lighting and the size of the room

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Phoebe Swinger
and the way the room is set up has a cozy feel to it. That’s what works for me. Some people don’t need that. I need that cozy feel to it. Then it really, really does work for me.

[00:21:23;02 – 00:21:30;10]
Ed Swinger
Yeah. And I think a lot of that stems from the studies that we’ve read where women really need safety.

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Phoebe Swinger
Yes.

[00:21:31;07 – 00:21:39;24]
Ed Swinger
That sense of I’m going to be okay or cared for. Yes. And therefore I can relax. Yes. And have a good time.

[00:21:39;24 – 00:21:49;07]
Phoebe Swinger
Yes, exactly. Even though I know you’re right there and I know there’s security outside the door and I know the community is safe.

[00:21:50;08 – 00:21:54;04]
Phoebe Swinger
It’s that innate feeling. Right. That you were talking about.

[00:21:56;27 – 00:22:12;09]
Phoebe Swinger
Course, we are not advocating doing something you don’t want to do by placing yourself in a situation that makes you really uncomfortable because I will tell you, we have walked into rooms and we’ve stood there and I go,

[00:22:13;24 – 00:22:24;21]
Phoebe Swinger
I’m just not feeling it. There’s something off about the night and I can’t really describe what it is. And there’s no amount of watching

[00:22:26;14 – 00:22:30;29]
Phoebe Swinger
that’s going to get me there. Yeah. And it happens.

[00:22:30;29 – 00:22:33;07]
Ed Swinger
Once again, those stars, they’re not going to align.

[00:22:33;07 – 00:22:33;25]
Phoebe Swinger
Yes.

[00:22:38;06 – 00:22:40;20]
Phoebe Swinger
Arousal non-concordance.

[00:22:40;20 – 00:22:41;17]
Ed Swinger
All right.

[00:22:42;22 – 00:22:50;04]
Phoebe Swinger
So this is really interesting in a term that’s being thrown around and there’s two types of that.

[00:22:51;09 – 00:22:57;07]
Phoebe Swinger
This is where your desire and your body’s response don’t always match.

[00:22:57;07 – 00:22:58;04]
Ed Swinger
Oh.

[00:22:58;04 – 00:23:08;19]
Phoebe Swinger
So type one is where the body shows sign of arousal but the person actually doesn’t feel aroused.

[00:23:08;19 – 00:23:09;05]
Ed Swinger
Yes.

[00:23:10;11 – 00:23:17;05]
Phoebe Swinger
So mentally there’s nothing going on but down below it’s nice and squishy. Right.

[00:23:18;17 – 00:23:19;12]
Phoebe Swinger
Type two,

[00:23:21;08 – 00:23:36;03]
Phoebe Swinger
the body does not show signs of arousal but the person feels aroused. Mentally I’m there and my body’s like, doop, that, whatever.

[00:23:36;03 – 00:23:46;07]
Ed Swinger
Yeah. So your mind and your body are kind of out of sync with each other. Yeah. You could kind of classify the ED or…

[00:23:47;14 – 00:23:47;23]
Phoebe Swinger
Yes.

[00:23:49;07 – 00:23:54;22]
Ed Swinger
As kind of being, I’m there. I really want to be here.

[00:23:56;14 – 00:24:00;16]
Ed Swinger
I’m one of it. And it’s just not happening because your body has just.

[00:24:00;16 – 00:24:01;03]
Phoebe Swinger
Boop.

[00:24:02;06 – 00:24:06;03]
Phoebe Swinger
Exactly. I hadn’t thought of it till, that’s a very good example.

[00:24:06;03 – 00:24:16;27]
Ed Swinger
And then I think that the other one that’s pretty typical is women are mentally just there. Someplace else they are checked out. But their body’s like, hey,

[00:24:17;27 – 00:24:25;25]
Ed Swinger
what’s going on? Yeah. Like you said. Yeah. Nice and wet but not really interested in playing. So yeah.

[00:24:25;25 – 00:24:33;13]
Phoebe Swinger
Yeah. And I was trying to think of a couple parties where that has happened.

[00:24:34;26 – 00:24:45;04]
Phoebe Swinger
Sometimes it happens where the initial interaction is, yeah, I’m interested. But then by the time you get to the bedroom,

[00:24:47;10 – 00:25:10;11]
Phoebe Swinger
something changes or there’s a touch that’s off or maybe you’re going faster at a different pace than I am. Because I like to approach it a little more slowly. And that throws me off. And then I start to, then now I’m starting to get in my head which is kind of like this ED example where.

[00:25:10;11 – 00:25:10;17]
Ed Swinger
Yeah.

[00:25:10;17 – 00:25:34;29]
Phoebe Swinger
So my body is still receptive but now my mind is starting to check out. And so it gets tricky. It does. It gets very tricky. And all of this is completely normal. Completely normal. And if you feel this way and you have the presence of mind in the moment and when I say that, that’s when I mean,

[00:25:36;19 – 00:25:54;09]
Phoebe Swinger
you’re very aware. You haven’t been drinking. You haven’t been doing any drugs. And you can kind of see outside of all the oxytocin and other hormones that are raging through your body right now to speak up for yourself and go,

[00:25:55;21 – 00:25:58;13]
Phoebe Swinger
I’m done. I’m gonna remove myself out of this situation.

[00:25:59;26 – 00:26:05;05]
Phoebe Swinger
It might be a little awkward for everybody involved but I’m taking care of myself.

[00:26:06;12 – 00:26:32;08]
Ed Swinger
Yeah. And I think this is the key consent conversation that a lot of people have a hard time with which was, oh, we’re all in the room. And I just said, yes, because I’m a people pleaser and I didn’t wanna break the mood that everybody was feeling. And if you’re not feeling it, you’re not feeling it. And you really should give yourself a break out of that.

[00:26:32;08 – 00:26:49;14]
Phoebe Swinger
And there’ve been several times where we have gone into that situation and said, look, we’re really interested. It has been a long day. It’s pretty late. We are a little tired and I’ve had a few drinks. I’m very interested.

[00:26:50;28 – 00:26:53;07]
Phoebe Swinger
But at some point during this interaction,

[00:26:54;18 – 00:27:25;07]
Phoebe Swinger
I might pull the plug. I might feel like I’m just not there because I am, it’s two in the morning, we were in the sun all day. Yes. So please give me some grace if I pull the plug and I need to disengage. And it’s a little bit of an insight ahead of time where people go, oh yeah, yeah, no shirt, no problem, right? So you can kinda set them up as to where you’re at.

[00:27:26;13 – 00:27:32;19]
Phoebe Swinger
And honestly, if you don’t set them up, if you say it in a nice way, people are very understanding.

[00:27:33;20 – 00:27:40;06]
Phoebe Swinger
Even if you don’t use a lot of words, people are usually really understanding. They’re not gonna bite your head off.

[00:27:40;06 – 00:27:50;29]
Ed Swinger
Right, or be disappointed and go, we’re gonna have to have a rain check on this because it’s two a.m. and it’s not working. Something’s not working. It’s not working, whatever.

[00:27:50;29 – 00:27:51;21]
Phoebe Swinger
Right,

[00:27:52;25 – 00:27:53;13]
Phoebe Swinger
all right.

[00:27:54;24 – 00:27:58;18]
Phoebe Swinger
Tell us how we are, build the sexual currency.

[00:27:59;27 – 00:28:08;12]
Ed Swinger
Yeah, so here’s some practical strategies that actually work for banking that sexual energy.

[00:28:09;22 – 00:28:20;10]
Ed Swinger
And well, let’s talk about what sexual currency is first. So think of it as that charge, that spark that we keep talking about that’s very vague and very Hollywood

[00:28:21;22 – 00:28:30;12]
Ed Swinger
that you feel between you and your partner or you and a potential partner. And that spark over time declines.

[00:28:31;25 – 00:28:48;17]
Ed Swinger
The new sexy smell kinda wears off, if you will. Right. You get familiar with things, you get into habits, and maybe you don’t have the dishabituation where you have the distance or the separation where you kinda feel that longing or desire.

[00:28:48;17 – 00:28:49;05]
Phoebe Swinger
Right.

[00:28:49;05 – 00:28:59;14]
Ed Swinger
That repetitive day in, day out of the relationship starts to really erode that currency.

[00:28:59;14 – 00:29:15;24]
Phoebe Swinger
And it puts that pressure on the person who’s typically been the initiator. Right. Which is that role that you’ve defined in your relationship, which can change, it can switch. Yeah. If you have that conversation.

[00:29:15;24 – 00:29:32;04]
Ed Swinger
And that’s the hard part too, is you start to feel this decline, and if you’re the initiator, you feel like they’re not interested, so you feel awkward initiating, and they’re not initiating because they’ve never had that role.

[00:29:32;04 – 00:29:32;14]
Phoebe Swinger
Right.

[00:29:32;14 – 00:29:35;01]
Ed Swinger
So that’s never gonna happen.

[00:29:35;01 – 00:29:39;21]
Phoebe Swinger
Right. And then the other person, the initiator feels rejected.

[00:29:39;21 – 00:29:40;16]
Ed Swinger
Right.

[00:29:40;16 – 00:29:44;20]
Phoebe Swinger
I know, it becomes this very sad kinda loop.

[00:29:44;20 – 00:29:45;12]
Speaker 2
Womp womp womp.

[00:29:45;12 – 00:29:45;24]
Phoebe Swinger
I know.

[00:29:47;14 – 00:29:55;27]
Ed Swinger
So how do you increase this sexual currency, this spark? How do you get it back? And this is what you guys have all been waiting for. This is what we teased at the beginning.

[00:29:58;00 – 00:29:59;09]
Ed Swinger
Do things like this,

[00:30:00;09 – 00:30:59;04]
Ed Swinger
kiss more. Kissing is a huge desire builder. We talk about it in our episodes, we’ve done some kissing episodes. We even did a seminar at one of our conferences, one of the Swinger getaways, where we talked about how important and how intimate and how sexy kissing is. And I think a lot of people don’t use that tool well enough, often enough. Right. It’s so important because you’re right in somebody’s face and there’s all kinds of nerve endings going on and it’s not penetrative sex, right? So you’re not jumping too far ahead or all used to it and it’s kind of sweet too. So it doesn’t have to be like jump on them and stick your tongue down their throat. It can be very gentle and it warms up very quickly. So kissing, kissing is very good.

[00:31:00;09 – 00:31:51;24]
Ed Swinger
You can schedule physical intimacy. So not sex, not like we will have sex on Wednesdays because it’s business day. Things like cuddling, make time with your significant other to cuddle with them, sit with them, take baths together. Now we’re not huge advocates for bathtubs or watch all the homery model shows and just have a fit every time we see a bathtub. It was like, nobody ever uses bathtubs. Well, if you have one, use it for taking baths together because it’s kind of fun and intimate. Or if you have a hot tub, that’s also a really good choice. And this one’s talked about a lot, but we’ll throw it in here too. And that’s actually set up a date night with your long-term partner, your spouse.

[00:31:52;28 – 00:32:04;04]
Ed Swinger
Like make time for yourselves to just go hang out and be together and like the old days, right? Like kind of rekindle those old– Date night. Yeah, the date night.

[00:32:04;04 – 00:32:21;29]
Phoebe Swinger
I know, we had a few date nights in the last two weeks and it was really nice. We stepped up that frequency because we’ve just been so stressed out and so busy. We have two full-time jobs plus this job.

[00:32:23;10 – 00:32:23;23]
Ed Swinger
And another one.

[00:32:23;23 – 00:32:42;03]
Phoebe Swinger
And another job. So we really do probably work 60 hours a week. So we needed a break and it was so nice from where I was telling you, like, I’m so enjoying this date. It was so nice to just get out and play and have fun and have dinner and we went to a comedy show. It was lovely. And I’m like, we need to do more.

[00:32:42;03 – 00:32:43;06]
Ed Swinger
We need to do more.

[00:32:44;12 – 00:33:06;19]
Ed Swinger
And part of this, one of the other things we talked about was kind of creating distance. So go hang out with the guys or go have a girl’s night out and create that separation. And you’ll miss your partner because you’ve got some distance from them. So when they come home, you’re excited to see them again. Like, that’s actually really important.

[00:33:06;19 – 00:33:07;14]
Phoebe Swinger
Yes.

[00:33:07;14 – 00:33:22;20]
Ed Swinger
It also gives you kind of a mental break from it. So it’s not just a physical distance thing. It’s you’re not in each other’s face or you’re not thinking about each other. You’re remote and you’re having to kind of remember. So it actually triggers a different part of your brain.

[00:33:24;15 – 00:33:30;14]
Ed Swinger
And these are some fun ones. So share a sexual secret between the two of you.

[00:33:31;20 – 00:33:33;03]
Phoebe Swinger
Which I mean.

[00:33:34;06 – 00:33:34;06]
(Laughs)

[00:33:34;06 – 00:33:37;19]
Ed Swinger
I mean, swinging is one of the biggest sexual secrets you can have.

[00:33:37;19 – 00:33:55;02]
Phoebe Swinger
And the secret itself was, I mean, so exciting. I mean, it was terrifying and exciting all at the same time. And I’m trying to remember when the novelty of the secret wore off is probably when we came out.

[00:33:55;02 – 00:33:59;02]
Ed Swinger
Yeah, probably. But there’s other sexual secrets that you can have too.

[00:34:00;10 – 00:34:19;11]
Ed Swinger
We were talking about kind of breaking routine. Think about role-playing, think about things like that. So, your partner’s the pizza delivery guy, the naughty secretary, the whatever. And those things kind of create this,

[00:34:20;14 – 00:34:24;04]
Ed Swinger
this memory, this trigger for things that are different.

[00:34:24;04 – 00:34:25;00]
Phoebe Swinger
Yes.

[00:34:27;01 – 00:34:48;24]
Ed Swinger
And of course, do things that make you feel desired. So do things that make you feel sexy and enjoy each other’s space and your bodies and things like that. So I don’t know, maybe do like a nude cooking thing or there’s some lingerie Friday or something fun.

[00:34:48;24 – 00:34:55;17]
Phoebe Swinger
You would cook naked with nothing but an apron sometimes. And I really did like that.

[00:34:55;17 – 00:35:00;11]
Ed Swinger
Come out of the kitchen, there’s just the naked butt right there. Yeah, it’s fun.

[00:35:00;11 – 00:35:05;26]
Phoebe Swinger
I come around the corner. Oh, surprise. Hello, butt. I know, that was really fun.

[00:35:06;27 – 00:35:11;16]
Phoebe Swinger
Dinner was a little late on those times, but you know, it was worth it.

[00:35:11;16 – 00:35:12;28]
Ed Swinger
It was absolutely worth it.

[00:35:12;28 – 00:35:14;07]
Phoebe Swinger
So we didn’t burn the meal.

[00:35:14;07 – 00:35:14;24]
Ed Swinger
Right.

[00:35:17;04 – 00:35:39;00]
Ed Swinger
So speaking of don’t, like don’t burn the meal, don’t schedule sex itself. It creates a lot of pressure because you now have a goal and it’s goal oriented, which means that you’re probably not going to arrive at that goal if you will. Things don’t work if you put a lot of pressure on yourself.

[00:35:39;00 – 00:35:44;29]
Phoebe Swinger
Yeah, and most things that are scheduled are picking up the kids and, you know,

[00:35:46;05 – 00:35:58;24]
Phoebe Swinger
boring. I know, going to work and clocking in or clocking out, you know, all the day-to-day stuff that are scheduled, that’s the last thing you want to do. And it’s funny because they always used to say, when you just schedule sex,

[00:35:59;24 – 00:36:04;17]
Phoebe Swinger
but now the advice is don’t. It’s terrible advice.

[00:36:04;17 – 00:36:15;00]
Ed Swinger
We talked about it earlier. So schedule things like intimacy and cuddling and things like that, kind of the precursors, because there’s no pressure with cuddling. You know, that’s easy.

[00:36:16;03 – 00:36:26;25]
Ed Swinger
And then here’s the other thing, and we talked about it before, but it’s wait to feel it. So if you wait, it’s never going to happen.

[00:36:26;25 – 00:36:28;15]
Phoebe Swinger
Right, so don’t wait.

[00:36:28;15 – 00:36:29;21]
Ed Swinger
So don’t wait.

[00:36:31;22 – 00:37:33;14]
Ed Swinger
And try not to fall into these predictable initiation patterns. So, and this is going to be hard. This is probably the hardest one of the list, and that’s try and break up who is the initiator for sex and who isn’t. Right. We watched Caitlin V’s show. Yes. I don’t know what it’s called now. It’s been a while. And there was one of the partners who always initiated sex. And the woman in that relationship always felt like it was being kind of put upon her. She had to say yes because he was initiating and therefore she had to say, so there was always this pressure because of this role dynamic that they had. And when they reversed it, it was this sense of when’s it gonna happen. There’s this sense of anticipation. There’s this sense of I don’t know what to expect. I don’t know when it’s, when is it gonna sneak up and attack me kind of a thing?

[00:37:33;14 – 00:37:33;26]
Speaker 2
Yes.

[00:37:33;26 – 00:37:36;28]
Ed Swinger
So there’s this anticipation for it.

[00:37:36;28 – 00:37:37;11]
Phoebe Swinger
Yes.

[00:37:37;11 – 00:37:42;22]
Ed Swinger
Which builds arousal, which is super good. Super good. Super good.

[00:37:42;22 – 00:38:00;09]
Phoebe Swinger
There’s another couple in that same series that Caitlin V did where she, the woman was the initiator and she challenged the man to be the initiator. And it was very awkward for him. And so she assigned him,

[00:38:02;02 – 00:38:46;01]
Phoebe Swinger
her advice was to step into a role. Right. And so to dress differently. And just to kind of help get that feeling of stepping into a role. And when he did and he dressed in a suit, something he normally doesn’t wear, he found that was very empowering. And most people have had this experience where you try on a different piece of clothing and you go, wow, I feel so sexy or I feel so powerful. I feel so alive or tall. And he almost became a different person, which was exciting for the wife because she’s like, who is this man?

[00:38:46;01 – 00:39:02;16]
Ed Swinger
Right, you’ve broken that routine, you’ve broken that traditional role. And his was almost a form of role playing, which did kind of, it made him feel sexy and she was intrigued because it broke that routine. Yeah, it was pretty, it was hot.

[00:39:02;16 – 00:39:04;16]
Phoebe Swinger
It was a lot of fun. It was very hot.

[00:39:05;18 – 00:39:11;20]
Ed Swinger
So the initiation factor, so this is who’s gonna say, hey, you wanna have sex?

[00:39:13;11 – 00:39:49;02]
Ed Swinger
It’s a form of communication. And we have this problem, we get typecast into this predictable, I’m the initiator and you’re the receiver. And then you do end up in this very awkward situation of, I don’t feel like the time is right. I feel bad asking because you’ve had a hard week and I don’t wanna put that pressure on you. And both partners need to feel desired in their own way. And so there’s this need to kind of understand what that sexual language is, that communication between the two people.

[00:39:50;13 – 00:40:06;03]
Ed Swinger
And it’s interesting you say men don’t always want direct initiation either. And I agree with that to a certain extent, although I do kind of like an assertive woman, not aggressive, like, ehh.

[00:40:06;03 – 00:40:06;17]
Phoebe Swinger
Right.

[00:40:07;27 – 00:40:08;07]
(Laughing)

[00:40:08;07 – 00:40:12;02]
Ed Swinger
But feeling desired is very sexy.

[00:40:13;21 – 00:40:26;26]
Ed Swinger
But it can also be a lot more subtle too. So like you coming up and giving me the kisses instead and the cuddling and all that, that gets my juices going as well. So it doesn’t have to be so overt, it can be a little subtle.

[00:40:30;13 – 00:40:32;15]
Phoebe Swinger
What actually matters?

[00:40:32;15 – 00:40:34;22]
Ed Swinger
Yep, this is where it all comes down.

[00:40:35;29 – 00:40:39;29]
Phoebe Swinger
Quality, communication and flexibility.

[00:40:42;17 – 00:40:47;12]
Phoebe Swinger
Sexual satisfaction does not equal frequency. Right.

[00:40:48;19 – 00:40:55;21]
Phoebe Swinger
And the average sexual engagement that may surprise you is 18 minutes.

[00:40:55;21 – 00:41:00;21]
Ed Swinger
Wait, wait, it’s not three hours of like just hot, passionate, you know, whatever.

[00:41:00;21 – 00:41:09;02]
Phoebe Swinger
No, and it’s not three minutes, right? But I think that’s pretty reasonable. 18 minutes is pretty good.

[00:41:10;15 – 00:41:14;24]
Phoebe Swinger
I mean, yeah, I thought, okay, yeah, that’s pretty good.

[00:41:16;09 – 00:41:19;16]
Phoebe Swinger
Relationship satisfaction and desire maintenance improve

[00:41:20;19 – 00:41:22;15]
Phoebe Swinger
when you can talk about sex.

[00:41:22;15 – 00:41:33;06]
Ed Swinger
Yeah, and I think that that’s really key. When we first started the lifestyle and actually had to talk about sex, Yes. Like,

[00:41:34;17 – 00:41:53;12]
Ed Swinger
because we had to talk about mechanically what was gonna happen when we went to different places and what everybody’s rules were and boundaries. Yes. We actually started having conversations about sex, what we wanted to do, what we didn’t like, what we,

[00:41:54;21 – 00:41:56;12]
Ed Swinger
more of this, less of that.

[00:41:56;12 – 00:41:58;16]
Phoebe Swinger
Yes, yes.

[00:42:01;03 – 00:42:02;05]
Phoebe Swinger
I loved those conversations.

[00:42:03;05 – 00:42:04;14]
Phoebe Swinger
Those were some really good conversations.

[00:42:04;14 – 00:42:06;16]
Ed Swinger
We should have more of those.

[00:42:06;16 – 00:42:17;05]
Phoebe Swinger
We still do, but not to the level that we did because we’ve figured a lot out in 10 plus years, 11, 12 years.

[00:42:17;05 – 00:42:17;14]
Ed Swinger
Right.

[00:42:18;27 – 00:42:28;10]
Phoebe Swinger
And most people do find it difficult to discuss sex with their partner. I remember those early conversations were pretty awkward. Yeah.

[00:42:30;09 – 00:42:44;01]
Phoebe Swinger
Some of them were. There were certain desires that I had or certain concepts that I had a hard time communicating because I thought you would leave me for them.

[00:42:44;01 – 00:42:44;19]
Ed Swinger
Right.

[00:42:45;21 – 00:42:47;20]
Ed Swinger
Like having sex with other people.

[00:42:47;20 – 00:42:48;18]
Phoebe Swinger
Yeah.

[00:42:48;18 – 00:42:49;03]
Ed Swinger
Oh my God.

[00:42:49;03 – 00:43:20;02]
Phoebe Swinger
Yeah, and sometimes we’ve heard from other friends who are in the community say that they’ve had conversations with their spouse that they’re not acting on. For example, like one of our friends said, he could easily be polyamorous. But he knows his wife isn’t, but he thought that was important to tell her. And knowing her as well as he does, he felt safe.

[00:43:21;08 – 00:43:27;23]
Phoebe Swinger
Enough that she wasn’t gonna divorce him and leave him, but it was still nerve wracking to disclose that.

[00:43:27;23 – 00:43:32;06]
Ed Swinger
Yeah, it’s very vulnerable to talk about sex with your partner.

[00:43:33;24 – 00:43:45;00]
Ed Swinger
It’s one thing to talk about that kind of like spontaneous desirable kinds of sex things, like, ah, I can’t wait to do things with you, whatever that is.

[00:43:45;00 – 00:43:45;10]
Phoebe Swinger
Yeah.

[00:43:45;10 – 00:43:51;01]
Ed Swinger
But it’s another to go, I kind of have a kink that I need to talk to you about.

[00:43:51;01 – 00:43:51;21]
Phoebe Swinger
Yes.

[00:43:51;21 – 00:43:56;00]
Ed Swinger
Or I really wanna see this happen. Or I,

[00:43:57;17 – 00:44:00;12]
Ed Swinger
who knows, right? There’s any number of things that can come up.

[00:44:00;12 – 00:44:49;18]
Phoebe Swinger
Yeah, it’s fun. That’s what’s fun about the lifestyle is that you start to crack open in your mind and your opportunity. You start to expand, you start to explore yourself. You grow sexually as an individual with your partner and you discover each other again. And you start having these conversations and things you didn’t know about them before, all of a sudden, you know, and things that they didn’t know they liked, they now like because they’ve seen something or they had an experience doing something. There are plenty of times where I had an experience doing something that I didn’t think I was gonna like. And after that experience, I liked it. But I didn’t know what I didn’t know because I’d never tried it.

[00:44:50;22 – 00:45:06;25]
Ed Swinger
Yeah, and we’ve noticed this in the lifestyle too, where you didn’t even know it was a thing, but then you saw it happen at a party and you were like, oh my God, I’d never really thought about that particular thing. So that whole combination of three or four people on a bed,

[00:45:08;06 – 00:45:11;01]
Ed Swinger
you didn’t know it was a thing, but then you see somebody doing it and you’re like,

[00:45:12;07 – 00:45:15;23]
Ed Swinger
I want to try that, that looks like a lot of fun. Exactly.

[00:45:20;18 – 00:45:48;18]
Ed Swinger
I think all of this kind of boils down this whole section into creating a relationship culture where you can just openly talk about sex. And I think that’s what most people find the lifestyle so appealing is everybody can talk about everything. And you’re not gonna get judged by it. You know, talking about anal sex, whether you like it, you don’t like it,

[00:45:49;22 – 00:45:58;23]
Ed Swinger
orgies, or oh, I have this kink and everybody’s like, oh, do you now? That’s fascinating, I’ve never tried that. Or I tried that once and it’s not my thing.

[00:45:58;23 – 00:45:59;12]
Phoebe Swinger
Right.

[00:45:59;12 – 00:46:08;26]
Ed Swinger
But there’s this general sense that you can talk about anything at any time with anybody and it’s okay.

[00:46:08;26 – 00:46:09;20]
Phoebe Swinger
Yes,

[00:46:10;21 – 00:46:12;00]
Phoebe Swinger
I love that about the lifestyle.

[00:46:13;09 – 00:46:23;11]
Phoebe Swinger
There is a gender script problem where PIV, which is penetrative sex. For those who don’t know, that’s the thing. Right.

[00:46:24;20 – 00:46:29;25]
Phoebe Swinger
It is the dominant script and it does suit the man better.

[00:46:32;03 – 00:46:44;06]
Phoebe Swinger
I will tell you 80% of the women cannot orgasm vaginally. They only, they need the clitoral stimulation to go hand in hand with that.

[00:46:45;06 – 00:46:47;19]
Phoebe Swinger
That’s huge, I didn’t know that.

[00:46:48;25 – 00:46:52;07]
Ed Swinger
Nobody talks about that. Right? Nobody talks about that.

[00:46:52;07 – 00:47:04;07]
Phoebe Swinger
And I have been at plenty of parties where there’s a woman on the bed and the sounds are just emoting from her like crazy. Right.

[00:47:05;23 – 00:47:12;26]
Phoebe Swinger
And she sounds and looks like she’s having an amazing time and it’s just, their orgasms are just.

[00:47:14;08 – 00:47:15;06]
Ed Swinger
Just flying around the room.

[00:47:15;06 – 00:47:19;24]
Phoebe Swinger
Flying around the room. It’s hard to be in the room with somebody like that and go, wow,

[00:47:21;06 – 00:47:24;27]
Phoebe Swinger
maybe I didn’t really have a good time or I’m not gonna have a good time as that.

[00:47:24;27 – 00:47:31;14]
Ed Swinger
Yeah, the bar gets set really, really high for those easily orgasmic women.

[00:47:31;14 – 00:47:42;13]
Phoebe Swinger
Right. So then you think, wow, okay, then now there’s this expectation that if I’m going to be in this room playing with this other person, that that’s what should happen.

[00:47:42;13 – 00:47:42;21]
Speaker 1
Right.

[00:47:42;21 – 00:48:04;03]
Phoebe Swinger
No, as furthest thing from the truth and usually an orgasm never happens probably, probably 20% of the time. But part of that too is that that person doesn’t know my buttons. Maybe I wasn’t good at communicating what I wanted that time, right? Maybe I was too tired.

[00:48:04;03 – 00:48:09;18]
Ed Swinger
Maybe. You’re not warmed up enough. You haven’t built up that sexual currency with that person.

[00:48:09;18 – 00:48:26;25]
Phoebe Swinger
I got distracted, something, right? There’s all these factors because usually we’re exhibitionists and so there’s a lot of stimulation going on. Which is why I really do get why a lot of people like to close the door so they can remove that factor of distraction.

[00:48:29;14 – 00:48:37;24]
Phoebe Swinger
Women rank PIV as their least preferred form of sex. Right.

[00:48:37;24 – 00:48:49;09]
Ed Swinger
What? Yeah, and men equally rate that as the most preferred form of sex. Yes. So we’re already like Venus and Mars on this whole thing.

[00:48:49;09 – 00:49:02;22]
Phoebe Swinger
I know, crazy. I had no idea. And then the other interesting fact is the initiator experiences higher satisfaction.

[00:49:04;11 – 00:49:09;08]
Ed Swinger
And that kind of makes sense because the initiator’s thinking about it so they’re already–

[00:49:10;12 – 00:49:11;02]
Phoebe Swinger
Halfway there.

[00:49:11;02 – 00:49:16;01]
Ed Swinger
Yeah, they’ve like started it in their head. Okay. And so they’re starting to gear up.

[00:49:16;01 – 00:49:17;22]
Phoebe Swinger
That makes sense.

[00:49:17;22 – 00:49:38;00]
Ed Swinger
So the other person’s catching up to what’s going on. Right. But there’s probably some reason that’s going on with the initiator. If they’re starting to think about sex where the hormones or they saw something throughout the day or whatever. So who knows what that level of arousal is to kind of get to the point of initiation.

[00:49:38;00 – 00:50:17;21]
Phoebe Swinger
Right. I actually have experienced this with a previous husband where I’m like right there and I’m thinking, well, he’s a guy, he’s gonna be a guy who’s gonna be a guy who’s gonna be a guy who’s gonna be a guy and if he’s a guy, he’s gonna be ready like that. And no, he needed time to decompress from his day and I found myself getting frustrated that he wasn’t ready like that. And I had to take a step back and check myself because it was a bit unfair. I fell into that stereotype categorization that, well, you have testosterone and you’re a dude so when I say I’m ready, you’re ready.

[00:50:17;21 – 00:50:19;19]
Ed Swinger
You just push the button and it just– Push the, boop.

[00:50:19;19 – 00:50:28;12]
Phoebe Swinger
Just happens. So, you know, men aren’t that much different than women. Yes, you have different hormones but still.

[00:50:31;00 – 00:50:36;10]
Ed Swinger
So this is some fun stuff. What helps with this initiation imbalance?

[00:50:36;10 – 00:50:37;24]
Phoebe Swinger
Oh, I like this one.

[00:50:37;24 – 00:50:47;06]
Ed Swinger
Yes, I knew you would because there’s some funny things in here that really aren’t sex related.

[00:50:48;14 – 00:50:48;20]
Phoebe Swinger
No.

[00:50:48;20 – 00:50:52;01]
Ed Swinger
As an example, equality in household chores

[00:50:53;01 – 00:50:55;08]
Ed Swinger
increases sexual satisfaction.

[00:50:56;10 – 00:51:06;05]
Ed Swinger
So taking the trash out, doing the dishes, vacuuming for your partner is kinda sexy even though it’s not sexy at all.

[00:51:06;05 – 00:51:07;18]
Phoebe Swinger
Right, but it is.

[00:51:07;18 – 00:51:21;11]
Ed Swinger
Because that’s a thing that they’re worrying about or stressing about or thinking about. It’s occupying their brain and the fact that someone took that load off of them and that they don’t have to think about it,

[00:51:22;19 – 00:51:36;06]
Ed Swinger
it gives them that sense of security. It gives them that sense of like, oh, that was very sweet of them which kicks off all of those oxytocin chemical reactions for being cared for and feeling closer to somebody.

[00:51:36;06 – 00:51:41;23]
Phoebe Swinger
Yes, and especially if your love language is acts of service, ding, ding, ding.

[00:51:41;23 – 00:51:42;03]
Speaker 1
Right.

[00:51:42;03 – 00:51:44;17]
Phoebe Swinger
Also plays into that as well.

[00:51:46;13 – 00:51:50;09]
Phoebe Swinger
Mindfulness engagement equals more orgasms.

[00:51:51;15 – 00:51:57;01]
Phoebe Swinger
So getting that brain going, whatever it takes.

[00:51:57;01 – 00:52:01;21]
Ed Swinger
Being present in the moment, thinking about the thing that you’re doing and not.

[00:52:04;24 – 00:52:11;19]
Phoebe Swinger
Pushing boundaries and sexual experimentation. I was gonna say about that earlier with role playing, kinks.

[00:52:12;20 – 00:52:14;26]
Ed Swinger
Going to your first swinger party.

[00:52:14;26 – 00:52:15;07]
Phoebe Swinger
Right.

[00:52:15;07 – 00:52:21;05]
Ed Swinger
Even if you’re not gonna participate, just the act of going is enough to kind of create this,

[00:52:21;05 – 00:52:23;21]
Speaker 2
ooh, we’re doing something naughty.

[00:52:24;22 – 00:52:29;18]
Phoebe Swinger
Yes, and we know plenty of people too who have built their own sex room.

[00:52:29;18 – 00:52:30;04]
Ed Swinger
Right.

[00:52:30;04 – 00:52:48;08]
Phoebe Swinger
And so that’s a project together that is arousing, right? They plan it, they purchase for it, they build it. And then that is their safe space that they look forward to going to. And they’re not in that room all the time. So it’s like being on a mini vacation.

[00:52:48;08 – 00:52:48;19]
Ed Swinger
Right.

[00:52:48;19 – 00:52:58;21]
Phoebe Swinger
And they go to that room that’s under lock and key usually because they have young children. It’s either in the basement or someone built a shed

[00:53:00;02 – 00:53:05;05]
Phoebe Swinger
in their backyard and soundproofed it and everything. And that’s where all their kink stuff is.

[00:53:05;05 – 00:53:05;11]
Ed Swinger
Yeah.

[00:53:06;22 – 00:53:12;20]
Ed Swinger
It’s interesting because we’d talked early in this episode about kind of creating a sexual atmosphere.

[00:53:12;20 – 00:53:13;15]
Phoebe Swinger
Yes.

[00:53:13;15 – 00:53:27;06]
Ed Swinger
And I can imagine walking past the sex room all the time, even with the door closed, you know what’s in that room. And it’s just this constant reminder of like, oh, that’s where the fun stuff happens.

[00:53:28;15 – 00:53:33;15]
Ed Swinger
I like that. Okay, so we’re gonna tear the podcast room down and we’re just gonna put a dungeon in here.

[00:53:33;15 – 00:53:36;06]
(Laughing)

[00:53:38;20 – 00:53:45;04]
Ed Swinger
Being able to renegotiate your sexual preferences. And I think this is important because

[00:53:46;14 – 00:53:53;08]
Ed Swinger
desires change over time. Sexual preferences change over time. We say this all the time, sex is fluid.

[00:53:54;09 – 00:54:07;25]
Ed Swinger
It doesn’t stay the same. And things that turned you on last week, maybe not turn you on this week. So constantly kind of adjusting to how you’re feeling and what turns you on.

[00:54:09;05 – 00:54:17;12]
Phoebe Swinger
And the key is too, that sexuality should evolve and flex as you age.

[00:54:18;15 – 00:54:20;09]
Phoebe Swinger
We’re not stagnant people.

[00:54:21;11 – 00:54:31;25]
Phoebe Swinger
Nothing is stagnant in nature, maybe a mountain. But even then it’s subject to ice and cold and wind and erosion. Everything changes.

[00:54:33;15 – 00:54:39;00]
Phoebe Swinger
And you also need to be aware of those life stage reality checks.

[00:54:40;03 – 00:54:47;12]
Phoebe Swinger
Because some of you have children and not really until your child is about six years old,

[00:54:48;25 – 00:54:51;17]
Phoebe Swinger
does your sexuality return back to normal.

[00:54:52;26 – 00:55:05;28]
Phoebe Swinger
Because there’s a lot of time that’s taken out of your normal routine for sex because you’re caring for a young person and they require a lot of energy.

[00:55:06;28 – 00:55:21;25]
Ed Swinger
Yeah, a lot of attention. You’re constantly worried about them because they’re not self-sufficient yet. And that’s a huge mental load, I think, for both partners. Or at least for one of them, which of course then creates this disparity in terms of responsibility.

[00:55:23;01 – 00:55:28;00]
Ed Swinger
So taking on some of that burden and kind of evening the load will also help too.

[00:55:28;00 – 00:55:31;12]
Phoebe Swinger
Yeah, they’re also in school by then. That helps too.

[00:55:32;17 – 00:55:33;03]
Ed Swinger
A little nooner.

[00:55:34;29 – 00:55:40;13]
Phoebe Swinger
Menopause disrupts things quite a bit. Changes that need addressing.

[00:55:41;29 – 00:55:45;12]
Phoebe Swinger
Sexual relationships need to grow and adapt.

[00:55:45;12 – 00:55:46;11]
Phoebe Swinger
The big picture.

[00:55:47;18 – 00:55:49;29]
Phoebe Swinger
Reframing sexual health in relationships.

[00:55:51;01 – 00:55:53;02]
Phoebe Swinger
Getting real about monogamy.

[00:55:56;01 – 00:56:01;21]
Phoebe Swinger
Humans are not biologically designed for monogamy.

[00:56:02;22 – 00:56:04;12]
Phoebe Swinger
It’s a social construct.

[00:56:04;12 – 00:56:05;18]
Ed Swinger
Right.

[00:56:07;11 – 00:56:21;13]
Phoebe Swinger
And open relationships are on the rise. I think, what did we read? Oh my gosh, like seven years ago that it was the Swinger or open relationship community

[00:56:22;27 – 00:56:25;19]
Phoebe Swinger
is larger than the LGBTQ plus community.

[00:56:25;19 – 00:56:37;08]
Ed Swinger
Right, as a whole, there’s a higher percentage of the population who have either experimented with or experienced ethical non-monogamy in some form or another.

[00:56:37;08 – 00:56:38;00]
Phoebe Swinger
Right.

[00:56:39;08 – 00:56:42;13]
Phoebe Swinger
And the myth of finite love.

[00:56:43;26 – 00:56:47;24]
Phoebe Swinger
Right. Is a lie. You can love friends, children, a partner

[00:56:50;12 – 00:56:53;11]
Phoebe Swinger
without depleting your vessel of love.

[00:56:53;11 – 00:57:09;00]
Ed Swinger
Right, right. This isn’t a, it’s not a cup that you pour out a little and somebody gets a little bit of love and somebody else doesn’t. And this is why polyamory works for a lot of people because it kind of creates its own fountain.

[00:57:09;00 – 00:57:09;27]
Phoebe Swinger
Yeah.

[00:57:09;27 – 00:57:37;02]
Ed Swinger
And the different forms of love also don’t detract from each other. So you can have familial love with some people but then sexual love with others. And we were worried when we first got into the lifestyle about it kind of taking the special out of our sexual relationship. And we didn’t find that it did.

[00:57:38;03 – 00:57:56;28]
Ed Swinger
The relationships we had with other play partners were not even close to being the same as our relationship. And if anything, it gave us great stories to talk about and experiences that we had together which fueled that spontaneity and the spark in our own relationship.

[00:57:56;28 – 00:57:57;28]
Phoebe Swinger
Exactly.

[00:57:59;13 – 00:58:14;06]
Phoebe Swinger
Moving forward, focus on quality and connection, not counting. Right. Talk about where you want your sexual relationship to go. Build your sexual currency daily.

[00:58:15;09 – 00:58:18;14]
Phoebe Swinger
That code of those shoulds never should on yourself.

[00:58:20;03 – 00:58:22;07]
Phoebe Swinger
And do not compare yourself to others.

[00:58:23;09 – 00:58:30;29]
Phoebe Swinger
I still struggle with this. The comparison from time to time, I’m much better at it but it does crop up.

[00:58:30;29 – 00:58:32;12]
Ed Swinger
It’s inevitable.

[00:58:32;12 – 00:58:33;11]
Phoebe Swinger
It is.

[00:58:34;13 – 00:58:52;14]
Phoebe Swinger
And embrace that responsive desire. And the last is all of these things will be a big boost to your sexual positivity. Right, right. So in closing, my love, what are some of the key takeaways?

[00:58:54;05 – 00:59:25;12]
Ed Swinger
Well, the most important takeaway is that there’s no right frequency. So stop comparing yourself to something that Cosmopolitan said where you’re supposed to have sex three times a week. You could have one amazing blowout sex party a month. And if it was so amazing that you could live off of the vapors for that for a whole month, then great. You are probably having more satisfying sex than someone who’s banging one out three days a week.

[00:59:27;29 – 00:59:41;00]
Ed Swinger
Quality beats quantity every time. Having mediocre fast food sex, if you will versus a nice four course meal, take the four course meal, always better.

[00:59:43;02 – 00:59:45;18]
Ed Swinger
Don’t wait until you feel like it.

[00:59:46;25 – 00:59:51;28]
Ed Swinger
Responsive desire is normal. So build that desire up over time.

[00:59:52;29 – 01:00:05;16]
Ed Swinger
And of course, build your sexual currency through non sexual intimacy. So yeah, taking out the trash actually makes you more attractive to your spouse. So do it.

[01:00:06;18 – 01:00:26;27]
Ed Swinger
Talk about sex like you talk about anything else. And I think this is the, probably I think the most important thing and what helped us the most. And that is just talk about it. Talk about it anytime you have a thought about it and talking about it is also sexy. So just the act of opening up but then talking about sexy things, it’s kind of a turn on.

[01:00:28;08 – 01:00:30;26]
Phoebe Swinger
So your call to action is,

[01:00:32;05 – 01:00:34;19]
Phoebe Swinger
check out Dr. Karen Gurney’s book,

[01:00:35;26 – 01:00:37;10]
Phoebe Swinger
mind the gap. Right.

[01:00:38;26 – 01:00:40;14]
Phoebe Swinger
Very, very helpful, very informative.

[01:00:41;28 – 01:00:48;21]
Phoebe Swinger
There’s also a really good resource I want to point you towards, which is the Gottman Institute for,

[01:00:50;09 – 01:01:04;26]
Phoebe Swinger
the Gottman Institute, but they have communication tools on that website that are also very good. They also have courses that you can buy and they’re an amazing couple. They’re both therapists,

[01:01:06;01 – 01:01:13;19]
Phoebe Swinger
stellar human beings and a wealth of fascinating information.

[01:01:13;19 – 01:01:31;09]
Ed Swinger
Yeah, yeah. There’s one other that I’ll throw in here which isn’t in our notes, but it’s Sex and Captivity, which is a great resource and they give you homework. And speaking of homework, because we wouldn’t be Swinger University if we didn’t give you homework,

[01:01:32;11 – 01:01:37;20]
Ed Swinger
have one conversation about sex this week with your partner, at least one.

[01:01:37;20 – 01:01:43;12]
Phoebe Swinger
Yeah, and I do want to throw out one more resource that we talked about earlier, which is Caitlin V.

[01:01:43;12 – 01:01:44;24]
Ed Swinger
Yeah, she’s got some good stuff.

[01:01:44;24 – 01:01:52;01]
Phoebe Swinger
V as in Victor, she’s on YouTube. I’m not sure where you can find her, could have been a Netflix series special.

[01:01:52;01 – 01:01:53;27]
Ed Swinger
I don’t know if it was HBO or Netflix, but yeah.

[01:01:53;27 – 01:01:59;00]
Phoebe Swinger
Or stars, but find her also very great,

[01:02:00;13 – 01:02:03;14]
Phoebe Swinger
amazing sex therapist. Her content is phenomenal.

[01:02:03;14 – 01:02:04;05]
Ed Swinger
Fun stuff.

[01:02:05;05 – 01:02:05;21]
Phoebe Swinger
Final thought,

[01:02:05;21 – 01:02:15;15]
Phoebe Swinger
The best sex life isn’t about hitting a number. It’s about creating the conditions where desire can emerge and connection can flourish.

[01:02:15;15 – 01:02:24;29]
Ed Swinger
Thanks for tuning in. We appreciate you joining our community. And for those of you who are alive, thank you very much for joining us at this time.

[01:02:26;21 – 01:02:43;05]
Ed Swinger
Don’t forget your homework. Tell a friend about our show and leave a review and comment if you’d like, no matter what you do. Even just a little emoji down in the comment field is all good for us because it helps the algorithms.

[01:02:44;20 – 01:03:10;25]
Ed Swinger
You can also leave us a voicemail at 916-538-0482 or you can visit swingeruniversity.com and you can send us a message there. You can even leave us a 90-second message and tell us with your own words, with your voice, what you think or what you want to give us feedback on.

[01:03:12;02 – 01:03:17;12]
Ed Swinger
And no matter what, keep learning, keep growing and keep it sexy.

[01:03:17;12 – 01:03:27;02]
(Upbeat Music)