Unlock Your Best Sex Life with Ashley Manta – Mindfulness, Cannabis and Consent

[00:00] [Guest] Welcome to Swinger University. I’m Ed. And I’m Phoebe.
Today we are interviewing Ashley Manta, an award-winning sex educator and certified
sexologist. We’re going to discuss sex, consent, and cannabis STIs. How to be a skilled lover?
Oh my goodness. Got a lot to cover. This is going to be a great episode. We’re super excited about
it. But before we get started, let’s introduce Ashley. She is a sought-after authority on

[00:29] [Phoebe] mindfully combining sex and cannabis as part of her Ken sexual brand, which has expanded
to include psychedelics. She is the author of the CBD solution, Sex Published in 2020
in conjunction with Mary Jane and Chronicle Books. She completed her certification
as a body sex facilitator after studying with legendary pleasure pioneer Betty Dodson.
Ashley is the creator of the activating your cosmic pussy sisterhood and a series of online

[01:02] [Guest] intensive and retreats. Welcome. We are so excited that you’re here. We listen to you on several
podcasts. We listen to you on double teamed and Justin Lee Miller, Brain Candy. Yes, that was

[01:17] [Phoebe] my phrase Brain Candy because I’m driving and I’m like, I’m trying to take notes mentally while
you’re talking in my ear and I’m like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god. She’s like totally
mentally stimulating me right now. I’m like loving all this information. So I was geeking out

[01:33] [Guest] big time. Yeah. And of course, she brought it home and had to share it with me and then we were

[01:37] [Unknown] both geeking out on it. So it’s been great. I know. I love that. So your story is a fabulous. I love

[01:46] [Phoebe] your story. And I want our audience to know a little bit about your background. How you got to
this point in your life because it’s quite the story and it’s it’s very I love it. So you need

[01:57] [Ed] to share. It would be my pleasure. I’ll give you the highlights. It’s a long story otherwise and I
want to make sure that we get to the things that are most juicy for your listener. Perfect. But I
personally am a sexual trauma survivor and the way that I dealt with that in my ADHD neurodivergent
brain was that I became an expert on trauma. When I was in undergrad and grad school, I focused a
lot of my study on trauma, sexuality, healing trauma. And I became a rape crisis counselor, domestic

[02:29] [Unknown] violence crisis counselor, victim advocate. And I sort of ate, slept and breathed primary prevention

[02:34] [Ed] and sexual violence prevention in the early part of my career. And it was really meaningful,
impactful work, but it was also really high burnout work. And so by the time, you know,
2023 rolls around where I’m like 25 years old and having nervous breakdowns, I realized that
that was not a sustainable career path. And so I pivoted hard. And first I worked at Planned

[02:58] [Unknown] Parenthood and got into the reproductive health side of sexuality education. And then when I moved

[03:03] [Ed] to California in later in 2013, I started working as a phone sex operator. And it turns out I have

[03:12] [Guest] a really, really sexy phone sex voice. And I’m very good at dirty talk. So that was a really fun

[03:21] [Ed] way to be like, oh, I can make money as a sexuality professional, not actually doing like the hard

[03:27] [Unknown] scary trauma thing. And it was not great money as a phone sex operator. So I pivoted again

[03:34] [Ed] slightly and got a job at the pleasure chest in West Hollywood as the web manager. So I was
ordering toys and loaves and lotions and potions and accessories for the website, getting it up,

[03:47] [Unknown] trying out products, going to trade shows, meeting the vendors who were manufacturers and creators

[03:53] [Ed] of these products. And also a lot of adult performers who were adjacent to the space. And
that was when I was like, oh, okay, this part of the industry is really interesting to me. And
around the same time is when I got my medical card living in California. So I was exposed to
medical cannabis for the first time. And realized that wow, there’s so much more than living in
Pennsylvania when you go to a dealer and your options are weed or nothing. There was no
choice. There were no edibles. There were no topicals or any of those kinds of things. And so
I found a company in California that was making a THC infused lube that was meant to be applied
to the vulva and that was supposed to enhance orgasm and decrease discomfort. And I had experienced
pain with penetration for most of my adult life. So this product allowed me to have penetrative
sex without pain. And I realized there were not any sex educators talking about sex and cannabis
from what I could see in the industry at the time. And so that became my niche. I started writing
for leafly and dope magazine. It ended up leading to me getting written up in high times and a

[05:01] [Phoebe] book deal. And I became the cana sexual. Yes. I love this path. It’s fascinating. It’s fun how
how a problem then just blossoms into this solution, which then you know, we share and becomes this
this thing, this passion that we can’t but help share with other people. Yeah. Yeah. I also love

[05:28] [Guest] almost everybody can kind of look back in their past and go, you know, I had this one really
strange job. You know, it’s this you did what? Oh, that’s interesting. Fascinating. I know. Wait,
where does this strange job? Well, I mean, it’s strange for vanilla people to be a sex,
phone sex operator. I mean, that’s not strange. It’s not strange for us. Oh, but or podcast

[05:52] [Ed] this or uncommon one might say. Yeah. I was like, it’s it’s an interesting it’s an interesting

[05:59] [Phoebe] job. Yes. I’m just going to start with this whole like sex and cannabis and swinging. We
were always we we travel in those circles. And so everyone’s like, I honestly, actually, I’m
so tired of hearing people go, Oh, it takes me home. I mean, I’m like, bitch, it does not.
Like you are just that that is not true. Like even some guys will do that. They’re like, Oh,

[06:26] [Unknown] I smoked this and I’m like, I just I’m so horny. I’m like, really? And then can you get it up

[06:33] [Phoebe] wouldn’t I like after that? Like I don’t I doubt that because I have experimented. Now, I will
say I haven’t been very good with my scientific experimentation, but it does absolutely nothing
for me. And I’ve been on the hunt for the secret sauce. And I don’t think it exists. Can you please

[06:51] [Ed] tell us the truth? I absolutely can. And full disclosure before we get into all of this,
I am non monogamous and kinky. So just in case anybody’s listening to this and they’re like,
what is this? You know, monogamous heterosexual girl. No, no, no, I’m bisexual, kinky and
poly as fuck. So yeah. So y’all know I used to host sex parties. I’m a slut. So yes,
I might be able to sleep with me at some point if I like you. But I’m a slut.
So when it comes to cannabis and libido, I have a lot of people come to me and they’re like,
oh, it makes me horny or it doesn’t make me horny or I want it to make me horny or all the different
things, right? Yeah. What I would say is that cannabis, when used very intentionally, can help
address the things that are getting in the way. Um, pleasure connection intimacy, horniness.
But in and of itself, it is not a magic substance that is going to suddenly turn you into a
ravenous sex monster. Like that’s just not how that works. Um, so, you know, when people say,
oh, it makes me horny or I smoke this thing and I got horny, you were probably a little horny

[08:07] [Unknown] to begin with and it just enhanced what you were already feeling. Got it. Yeah, that makes a lot
of sense. And we’ve, we’ve thought of any form of cannabis is kind of like an alternative to alcohol
to kind of lubricate like a social lubricant, takes your inhibitions down a little bit, but
in moderation, because it very quickly goes into sleep or disorderly conduct or any one of those

[08:37] [Ed] things. So yeah. Hmm. Yeah. Moderation in all things, mindfulness in all things. And,
you know, especially when you’re trying to do it with sex, I genuinely, generally do not recommend
that you use cannabis or any mind altering substance with a new partner.
Mm hmm. Right. But just from a consent perspective and because you want to be able to establish
a sober baseline with someone before you start adding things. Yeah. And I definitely want to talk

[09:08] [Phoebe] about sex and consent and how and when to use things and how it’s being used in our community.
I want to talk about the vulva, the vulva, the THC CBD combination and how women can use this to
enhance their sexual pleasure. Hell yeah. What, what, what is, what is going on now out there with
these products and, and are they, do they work? What, what do we, you know, what is the combination

[09:38] [Ed] that we buy or look for? Yeah. A lot of them do. And there’s a fair bit of snake whale on the market.

[09:44] [Unknown] So, you know, this is very much a buyer beware situation. But what I will tell you is that THC CBD,

[09:53] [Ed] CBG, CBN, all of the other cannabinoids work better together. So if you happen to live in a
prohibition state and all that’s available is CBD only, it’s better than nothing but just barely.
And you really want at least a little bit of THC to help CBD do what it’s trying to do because the
CBD molecule does not bind to our bodies endocannabinoid receptors, which are the CB1 and CB2
receptors. It doesn’t bind to them directly. It needs THC to do that. So it’s not going to be as helpful
on its own. That said, it can come in a lot of different forms. I think the forms that are the

[10:32] [Unknown] most useful specifically around sexual pleasure are topicals like an oil that you would apply,

[10:39] [Ed] you allow it to marinate for 20 minutes. And then you get into your sexy fun times or

[10:43] [Unknown] suppositories, which I swear by. Not just because they’re amazing for menstrual cramps and people

[10:50] [Ed] who have endometriosis or symptoms of menopause, but also because if you have someone who maybe has
a partner that is longer than you are deep and you’ve had the unpleasant experience of having
your cervix knocked during sex, it can really help with the discomfort of that sensation. It’s

[11:08] [Unknown] also great for anal and it doesn’t get you high. All right, we need your help so that your

[11:19] [Guest] community, the very one you love and have so much fun with can also find our show. Here’s a really
easy way to do that. If you’re listening on Apple podcasts or Spotify, hit that follow button
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We can’t emphasize enough how much this helps the Swinger community and it truly is up to you
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And here’s the thing, when someone searches Swinger podcast, the algorithm doesn’t care how good

[11:59] [Unknown] our content is or how long we’ve been around. It only cares about ratings and reviews.

[12:07] [Guest] We’d appreciate it and your community will really appreciate it. Thanks for listening.
Yeah, yeah, that sounds like a triple win.

[12:21] [Phoebe] Right. I agree. So then what’s the difference with CBD and hemp? I bought a few products online
where they’re like, it’s hemp and then they ship it to me and then it does nothing.

[12:34] [Ed] Okay, so this is this country is there’s so much like misinformation and bad information.
Hemp is nothing more than a legal designation. It’s all cannabis. All cannabis is cannabis is
cannabis. Hemp means that that particular plant has less than 0.3% THC by volume, by dry weight.
So hemp plants are just low THC, typically higher CBD,
varietals of cannabis. Now there are a lot of products out there that say that they are CBD
products, but when you read the fine print, all it has in it is hemp seed oil. That is not
the same CBD and hemp seed oil are not the same. They don’t do the same things. That’s not how that
works. Right. So if you have a CBD only product, what you want to look for is a full
spectrum product. That means that you are actually getting other cannabinoids like THC and the
others and you’re probably getting some terpenes and some plant matter. When you see things that are
like CBD, isolate, it’s 99% CBD. That’s usually not going to be super helpful for you
because it lacks the other cannabinoids that it needs to be effective. Right. That receptor binder

[13:51] [Guest] assistance doesn’t exist. That makes a lot of sense. That does. So then some of these products,

[13:58] [Phoebe] I was looking at them because I’m trying to purchase some and it is challenging depending
on where you live because you can’t ship things across state lines. In fact, I even tried to buy
something down in Southern California and then I found one of the products that I wanted. It was

[14:14] [Unknown] Crush Queen. They’re great products. Yeah. And so I found a store. Of course, it’s nowhere here
where I live in Sacramento. And so I’m like, fine, it’s in California. I’ll just buy it from Southern

[14:30] [Phoebe] California. I call them, hey, can you ship it to me? I’m in the same state. No. Now that might just be

[14:35] [Unknown] their store. They don’t ship. But technically, I was thinking because we’re in the same state,

[14:42] [Ed] they could. Right. It’s a legal gray area because technically, the United States Postal Service
is federal. And so there is some like, if you’re following the letter of the law, you wouldn’t ship
cannabis even within the state. That said, if you had a friend to go buy it for you who’s comfortable
taking a little bit of risk and doing a little civil disobedience, that’s an option. Right.
You could also take a road trip down to SoCal. That’s an option. Right. Yeah. I didn’t even see

[15:16] [Phoebe] the suppositories when I was shopping online. That didn’t even come up as an option. The company

[15:22] [Unknown] I like that makes suppositories in California is called Hello again. And they originally designed

[15:29] [Ed] their products to be for people who are perimenopausal and in menopause. But it really is helpful for
wherever you are in your walk of life. And they make different concentrations like four to one,
THC to CBD, one to one, five to two, like they have all different concentrations based on what
you’re trying to accomplish with that suppository. And so you can really kind of tailor it to what you

[15:52] [Guest] need. That’s fun. Yeah. Nice. You can probably try one particular formulation and then adjust.

[16:01] [Ed] Absolutely. Yeah. And it’s a women-owned company and we love supporting women.

[16:05] [Phoebe] Oh gosh. 100%. I always try to support. When I’m shopping on Etsy, if it’s most usually
they’re women-owned, I will buy. There are some alcohol companies that are women-owned. What’s the

[16:20] [Unknown] alcohol? The tequila company. Three three sisters three three leaves three. Something like that.

[16:29] [Phoebe] Yeah. Three sisters three seeds women-owned. Nice. I like it because women-owned.
Now some of these lubes have like tea tree oil and peppermint etc which gives me a bit of pause
because I don’t want to disrupt the microbiome of my vulva and start like messing all that up.
And I kind of want to feel what this CBD THC combination does aside from the tea
tree oil and peppermint because I know that’s going to be stimulating. So it’s a little challenging
for for me to find a product that that I want without that, but that Cush Queen or yeah,
the Cush Queen didn’t have those ingredients. So I was I was pretty jazzed about that.

[17:10] [Ed] Cush Queen is awesome. There’s also another women-owned company that’s actually in the Bay Area called
Quim Q U I M. Yeah. And they have a sensitive formula that’s minimal ingredients. It’s just oil and

[17:22] [Guest] cannabinoids. Nice. That’s closer to us too. Yeah. Yeah. That’s that’s that’s a very short road trip.
We could do that and then hit twist in San Francisco or the power exchange or the power exchange.

[17:33] [Unknown] They’ve popped out Santa Cruz and visit me. Yeah. You’re a Santa Cruz. Oh yeah. That sounds cool.

[17:40] [Phoebe] How very nice. Do you still live? You went to school in Santa Cruz. No. That was a former life

[17:46] [Guest] where my ex I met in Santa Cruz. I won’t go there. It’s a totally different episode.

[17:57] [Phoebe] All right. Let’s talk about consent in the NAM and Nogamous community. And I wanted to touch on

[18:04] [Unknown] we could talk about how cannabis plays a role with consent. I also wanted to touch on what you

[18:15] [Phoebe] thought about consent in the Swinger community and how that differs from the BDSM community and
what you’ve noticed in regards to consent. To true consent. I will tell you that I as an early

[18:32] [Ed] sex educator, especially in the 2013 to like 2015 or so range, was very hesitant and apprehensive
about entering Swinger spaces because Swinger spaces have a reputation for being kind of a free
for all, especially around consent and drug use. I was very nervous about going to a Swinger party
and like what’s it going to be like and is somebody going to be grabbing my ass and all those kinds
of things. What I have seen in the time that I’ve started spending in Swinger communities is that
there is a much greater emphasis in the recent years on consent, on awareness,
on thoughtfulness, around bodily autonomy, on all of those things. And so I feel much safer

[19:19] [Unknown] going to Swinger events now than I think I would have 10 years ago. That said, I think the BDSM

[19:27] [Ed] community still has an edge on the Swinger community because their consent is and negotiation
are built into every aspect of BDSM in the Kent community. And I think with Swinger there is still
a little bit of like, oh, hey, you’re hot. I’m hot. We’re hot. Everybody good. Okay, great. Like
it feels like a flows and it’s a little bit more fluid and Lucy Goosey, which is fine if everybody’s

[19:52] [Unknown] okay with that, but it’s kind of fine until it’s not. And I still find that there’s a lot of like,

[19:58] [Ed] hey, I did Molly. I went to a Swinger party or a hey, I’m on mushrooms. I’m going to a Swinger
party and, you know, I’m not a lawyer. I don’t play one on TV, but I came from that world and
I can tell you you are not legally allowed to consent when you are intoxicated. So if you’re going
to these spaces, you’re already in a real consent danger zone when you are under the influence of
a psychedelic or any kind of substance. And there’s also a lot of alcohol at Swinger events as well,
which makes me, it gives me what my best friend Katie would call cause for pause.
Yeah. So, you know, there’s best practices and then there’s like real life. And I think finding
somewhere in the middle is useful and it’s really important to have clear communication and
be checking in with yourself, with your partner and with your potential partners,
frequently, especially if there are substances involved.

[20:47] [Guest] Here’s why we sail on Virgin. It’s adults only. No kids screaming at breakfast,
no family buffet lines, just champagne at noon, late night pool parties and people who

[21:07] [Unknown] actually want to be there. The vibe, think boutique hotel that happens to float,

[21:15] [Guest] tattoo parlors, drag brunch, restaurants you’d actually pay for on land. Plus, when you’re looking
to connect with other couples who know how to have fun, let’s just say Virgin attracts a very
specific type of adventurous. No wonder bread cruisers here, just your people.

[21:38] [Phoebe] Right. Right. When we first started swinging, we were swinging sober for about the first three
to four years, mostly because I, that’s just how I am. When I was in my 20s, I was always a designated
driver and I always knew that and I always drove because I knew I could, I could get home safe.
I was in charge of my own safety. If I didn’t drink, I was aware. I knew I wasn’t going to get
raped. No one was going to attack me and I had a means to get away. I’m going into an unknown
environment. No way am I going in there with alcohol or anything else on board because I don’t know
what’s going to happen. Right. So it was great for us because there’s so many other stimulus.
Once the hormones start going, I mean, I was just high from all the endorphins. And so
as we progressed in the lifestyle, we’re like, oh, you know, maybe we’ll have a drink, you know,
maybe we’ll have two drinks. And that’s when I started to notice that my consent, I’d say yes to

[22:46] [Unknown] things that I normally wouldn’t if I hadn’t been drinking. And so at the time, you’re like,

[22:52] [Phoebe] wait, this is fun. How do I get time? But then the next day, you’re like, yeah, you know,
that wasn’t so great. And you have, start to have regrets. And the memory starts to come back.

[23:07] [Guest] And you go, yeah, that probably wasn’t my best decision. And so we started to dial that back to

[23:14] [Phoebe] that drinking back because it just, it wasn’t satisfying. We weren’t, go ahead.

[23:21] [Guest] And that’s what I was going to say, too, is that it wasn’t necessarily that you were making
decisions that you regretted half the time. It was, I don’t remember what happened as clearly
as I want to. Like, I want to have those memories. I want to be able to play that tape back in my

[23:36] [Unknown] head and go, oh, yeah, that was, that was a lot of fun. And oftentimes after those events, I would

[23:44] [Guest] go, did, did you know what happened? And you’re like, ah, you know, I kind of remember details,

[23:49] [Phoebe] but it’s kind of fuzzy. Yeah. And then you feel like crap, you know, because you’re like,
I really wanted to, you know, really enjoy that experience with somebody. And to not be fully
present felt disingenuous. And I’ve felt bad about myself also in, in my role with that other
individual. And then the tables would turn on us as well where someone had been drinking and
doing Molly and literally like an hour later. He’s like, we were trying to leave because gosh,
you know, it’s so great. It would have been so great to have sex with you. And I’m like, here’s
a video. He literally didn’t even remember an hour. And that’s what I went. Okay. Now I feel like
crap. So I thought, you know, this, this is not, this is not good. Let’s, let’s make a shift.
Let’s change course with, well, we’re doing it and who we’re doing it with. Yeah. I respect that.

[24:55] [Ed] So, you know, I feel pretty strongly that if you need that kind of social lubricant to be able to
have sex with strangers, then maybe you need to interrogate that a little bit because I can have
really dirty filthy fucking sex stone colds over no shame, no reservations. And like, I would

[25:18] [Phoebe] encourage you to try to get there. That sounds like a very happy place to be. I know. Yeah. I like it.
I know. And, and there’s some further deeper research we could, I like that. We can title that
something. My stone cold 30 hot sex sober. I like that. I like where that’s going. We can,
we can make a lot of that. So if you want to use cannabis in that space, let’s say you’ve got
severe anxiety or you’re just, you’re really socially awkward. We’ve got some friends in a lifestyle
that really kind of need that to take that edge off because they, they really aren’t that great
at functioning in, you know, you know, with other people or groups. How, how could they use it
and still be responsible and have consent for all that? Yeah, absolutely. So the first thing I would

[26:21] [Ed] do is I would make sure to bone up on my self-regulation grounding practices like absent substances,

[26:28] [Unknown] make sure that you know how to do deep breathing and embodiment practices so that if you do start to

[26:34] [Ed] get panicky in a group setting that you can calm yourself down. And, you know, when you’re talking
about weaving cannabis into it, there’s two things I would say. The first is there is a really
amazing Japanese word which I may be pronouncing wrong. So apologies to anyone who speaks Japanese,
but it’s oryoki which translates to that which is just enough. And that I think is a really good
guiding principle for using cannabis in a social setting where, you know, use just enough
to get you to where you feel comfortable and balanced and like yourself, but not the point

[27:11] [Unknown] that you are stoned off your ass and acting like someone else. Yeah, solid advice. We’d done

[27:21] [Guest] an early episode because we’d seen so many people turns out they were later actually
dealing cocaine at these parties too. So it was pretty hardcore drug use, but there were a lot
of people who were kind of in our age range and they were like reliving their frat years. So I mean,
just like heavy alcohol use like ridiculously intoxicated. So we did an episode about it and how it
was basically not such a fun thing for everybody else let alone them not to mention the whole consent

[27:55] [Unknown] thing. Did a whole whole episode about this and we had a friend of ours later became a friend

[28:04] [Guest] call us on it because of course we were in a sense implying that all drug use was bad and we were
saying, well, no, it’s not that it’s just that all of our experiences so far have been pretty crappy

[28:16] [Unknown] with it. It really did come down to that regulation and knowing kind of what your dosage is and being

[28:24] [Guest] able to use just enough as you were saying, but also and this was the big thing that we both
agreed on and that was don’t try it for the first time at a party or don’t take something that

[28:37] [Unknown] someone else hands you. We’ve made that mistake before at a party and it was it was a rough night.

[28:46] [Ed] We’ll just say that there’s a rough night. Yeah, don’t let someone else pick your path for you.
That’s real dangerous. I run into that. I’m allergic to peppers and so I can’t do spicy food
and I have told so many people I used to say I can’t do spicy food and people would be like,
oh, this isn’t that spicy like it’s not spicy at all and I would take a bite and immediately
my tongue would go numb and my stomach would start to churn and I’m like, you don’t get to decide
that for me. So now I’ve just started telling people I’m allergic pepper and that saves time. But like,
you know, to your point, don’t do it with a new person, don’t do it in a new situation,
don’t do it for the first time at a party setting and don’t take somebody else’s drugs. Like,
from a purely risk management, harm reduction perspective, powdery drugs,

[29:29] [Unknown] bolly, coke, ketamine, all of those different things. No, everything’s waste with that. You have

[29:35] [Ed] a test of those drugs. You are rolling the dice with your life. And, you know, I actually carry
it in my hand with me anywhere I go, but a lot of people don’t. And so you really, it’s important
to be mindful of those things. And especially when you are doing drugs, it can be very easy to
have the inhibitions gone. And you’re like, everything is awesome. Everybody loves me. Life is great.
Nothing bad could ever happen. And that’s not reality. So, yeah, I really encourage people that
if you are going to be using, even let’s just say cannabis in a group setting, negotiate,
like go sober, negotiate, figure out who you’re going to play with, what you’re going to do,
what’s on the table, what’s on the table, boundaries, aftercare, all of those kinds of
discussions, then what you’re hoping to achieve by consuming, let’s say cannabis,
and what you’re expecting it to do for you. And also, like, how to take care of you if it doesn’t
do that for you, if it takes you into a place that you aren’t expecting. And then go ahead and

[30:36] [Phoebe] have your fun. But it requires more legwork. Right. It does requires a plan. Like you said, the
aftercare, maybe even someone sober in the room to you to observe. Yeah, it’s good to have a

[30:49] [Guest] lifeguard on duty. Right. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, we learned very quickly from that one night.
And it was it was simply an infused joint. It wasn’t anything extreme. But the concentrations of
THC right now in products are so high. And if you do not have any kind of familiarity with it,
that’s a that’s a very short slope to a double black diamond. You’re just

[31:22] [Phoebe] I I find I love I love the idea of of us all just being able to use our words and saying,
hey, we find you’re really attractive. We would really love some playtime with you. What is your
playstyle? We’re, you know, and then you start to have this exchange. Great. I’m looking for this
tonight. What are you in for? But nobody. I can’t say with an absolute that nobody does that.

[31:50] [Ed] I would comment. And less common still is safer sex conversations and barrier conversations.

[31:56] [Unknown] You know, and those conversations are hard to have sober, but they’re much harder to have

[32:03] [Ed] intoxicated if they are had at all. So if those are the conversations that you really need to be

[32:07] [Phoebe] having on the front end before you take anything. Yeah. Yes, for sure. Those those consent
conversations are are also challenging when when you’re at a house party in the music’s loud and you
can’t you can’t get away or you follow someone to the bedroom, but you have to be quiet because
there’s play going on. So then you have to step out of the room. And so a lot of swingers are just
they try to go with the flow because they don’t want to ruin the vibe. But now they’re
kind of consenting to something they really don’t want to because they’re afraid to either speak
up or afraid to make a scene or to offend somebody. So there’s all these fears about everybody else.
And our primary function is to take care of us. Number one, right. And we kind of we kind of
tend to fail to do that. I think more often than not, which

[33:04] [Ed] well, and we live in this very like people pleasing not wanting to ruin the vibe kind of society.
Yeah. Where if something starts to happen that crosses your boundary, you are likely if you’re
a people pleaser to go along with it because you’re like, well, I’m better at managing my own
discomfort than someone else’s. So I’ll just like bite the bullet and you know, take one for the

[33:26] [Unknown] team. And that is not the kind of sex I want to be having. Exactly. Yeah. And you can definitely

[33:35] [Guest] tell when you’re having sex with someone who’s doing that. There’s this kind of
distance between the people like it’s there. Like you can tell that they’re just not into it in some
way. And that that is that it’s very distracting. And it’s kind of disturbing too. Like I,

[33:53] [Phoebe] I feel weird about it. That we’re kind of leading into like fucking skilled lovers versus novelty.
But before we get there, we also were starting to touch on STIs and and having that conversation
about testing and things like that. You taught at Planned Parenthood and the reproductive health

[34:12] [Unknown] and sexual education. And so I really would love for you to talk about these testing windows

[34:19] [Phoebe] and incubation periods because there is this false sense of security in the lifestyle about
you know, their test. They got their little test and they’re like, oh, you know, three days before,
you know, a trip to desire, you know, I got tested and you’re like,
it’s just shit in my mind. But everyone else is like, it’s like a badge of honor. Like check,

[34:46] [Guest] I’m safe. And I’m like, that doesn’t mean what you think it means. Talk about why that may not

[34:53] [Ed] be the case. First of all, so I have HSV2, which is genital herpes. So I have to have the
safer sex STI conversation with all of my new partners because I believe in informed consent.
And so I have to like, okay, things are getting hot and heavy. Pants are starting to like look
like they might come off. All right, pause. Just need to let you know, I have herpes. That’s cool.
I’m take meds like whatever. But some people that freaks the mountain, some people are like,
cool me too. High five. And like we continue on with our conversation. I love those people.
Those are my favorite people. And a standard panel at my parenthood does not include herpes.
So, you know, you come out with your look at my flashy all negative test panel. Well,
cool. They tested you for chlamydia, gonorrhea, HIV syphilis, possibly trick them on us, maybe
hep C. But they almost certainly didn’t test you for herpes unless you were having symptoms.
Now there are some other especially like swinger companies that do

[35:53] [Unknown] herpes testing as part of their standard panel. However, the tests are unreliable for herpes

[35:59] [Ed] because they’re a blood test. It’s an IGG serum test. And all it means is that you have
enough of it in your blood. Like you could you could test positive and never have had an outbreak
in your life. That’s very possible. You can also test negative and still be positive because
you just got a false negative on your test. So that’s not as like a proof. And also the tests
regardless of what you’re getting tested for. Let’s say it’s something as common as chlamydia,
which by the way, the most common symptom of chlamydia is no symptoms. So when people are like,
oh, I’m not having any symptoms. I’m clean. First of all, if somebody says I’m clean, just like
mark that as a red flag in your brain because that’s really stigmatizing language. But also,
your test is only reflective of what your status was the day you took the test. It’s only good

[36:52] [Unknown] for the first person you fuck afterward. Like as soon as you have sex with someone else,

[36:58] [Ed] thank you. Your test is essentially no one void because maybe they use condoms for you and they
just got tested for you. But two days later, they fuck some five people at a party bear back.
And then they fuck you two days later and you’re still going off your old information.
Like there’s just so many variables of like, are you? Okay, you got tested. Great. What are
your safer sex protocols? Cool. You use condoms. Great. For what? Just for penetration. Do you
use condoms for oral? Do you use dental dams? Because you can get chlamydia and gonorrhea in your
throat. And I don’t know very many people at all who use dental dams for oral. So it’s just like
exactly. I’ve never seen one. I feel with STIs like the reason that you get tested is to be proactive
in case you caught something not to prevent yourself from ever getting anything. Yes.
Yes. I get tested every three months like clockwork. I have conversations with my partners. I
use condoms for penetration with everyone who’s not a fluid bonded partner. And I have all those

[38:04] [Unknown] conversations. But like, I also know that I’m non monogamous in having sex in group settings.

[38:09] [Ed] Like there’s a very good chance at some point in my life I’m going to end up with chlamydia
or gonorrhea or something. So the other thing that you can do is there are medications called
pep and prep. A lot of people know what prep is, but sometimes people don’t know about pep,
which is post exposure, prophylaxis. And now there’s something called doxy pep that if you
take this medication within a certain window of time, it basically inoculates you against whatever

[38:39] [Unknown] you may have been exposed to that’s bacterial. And so one, if you’re a swinger or any kind of

[38:45] [Ed] non monogamous having group sex, especially unprotected, I would encourage you to be on prep
just generally, which is for HIV prevention. And if you are going to be going to a party or whatever,

[38:58] [Unknown] go to your clinic and get doxy pep and and regular pep. Like these medications exist,

[39:04] [Ed] use them. And if you’re not going to use condoms and you’re not going to have saber sex

[39:08] [Unknown] conversations, the least you can do is take medication. Hey there podcast listeners,

[39:19] [Guest] you’ve been tuning into our episodes. But if you ever wondered about the steamy details of our
adventures, or maybe hungry for some sultry erotic stories, well guess what, we’ve got something

[39:31] [Phoebe] special just for you, our exclusive Patreon page. It’s like a VIP pass to the

[39:37] [Guest] sussier side of our world. So if you’re ready for an exclusive behind the mic experience,
head over to our Patreon page now. Trust us, this is where the magic happens. See you there,

[39:50] [Unknown] patrons. Right, right, right. Fascinating. Yeah. Another thing that you talked about it,

[40:05] [Guest] and that is your only as good as the last person you had sex with, interpretive your test,
your test is only as good as the last person you had sex with. There’s also the thing that we like
to emphasize too, which is false negatives on tests. And the kind of the incubation period for
a lot of things that won’t show up on a test. So you could have been tested, and it just doesn’t show
up on a test yet because the viral load or whatever hasn’t reached the nudge from your test.

[40:34] [Ed] Orgy, and then you get tested the next day, that test isn’t accurate for what you just did.

[40:40] [Guest] All of those infections have a varying window. So it’s not just wait this period of time,
wait a month, wait three weeks, wait a week, it varies depending on which thing you may have
been exposed to. And you don’t know what you’ve been exposed to. Otherwise, you wouldn’t have

[40:57] [Unknown] exposed yourself in the first place. Yeah, it’s really important to be checking in with your

[41:03] [Ed] healthcare provider or clinic and double checking the incubation periods for the various things.
Because there’s so many of them, like I could rattle off, but like it’s a long list and I don’t
want to be wrong. So go do your research. That’s part of being a sexually active responsible adult.

[41:19] [Guest] Yeah, and I think the, so I have two things. One of them is that kind of accepting a level of risk
because you’re choosing to be non monogamous and you’re in orgies and you know, you’re gonna have
the fun. You’re gonna, you’re, you’re rolling the dice. It’s just a matter of time for something
to happen. And I think that that’s important for people to acknowledge if they’re getting into
the lifestyle that there’s a chance. Now you can diminish your risks by obviously safer sex practices

[41:50] [Unknown] and using condoms and whatnot. The other thing that I was curious about because I’ve had listeners

[42:00] [Guest] write to us about prep and pap and oxy or doxy prep. What’s the, the safety with that? Because I
know as some of those taking them on a regular or consistent basis isn’t necessarily a good thing.

[42:16] [Ed] Well, what do you know? Like I’m not a lawyer. I’m also not a doctor. So I would encourage you to ask

[42:20] [Guest] a healthcare provider those questions, but broadly. Absolutely. Let’s just take prep.

[42:28] [Ed] I don’t take prep because it can over the long term contribute to bone loss and osteoporosis runs
in my family. So for me, I know that I’m gonna probably get osteoporosis someday and I don’t want to
make it worse. Whereas I, one, am comfortable with the risks and I have had sex with HIV positive
undetectable partners very comfortably. And so like that doesn’t, I would be more worried about
the osteoporosis than my HIV risk. And so for me, that’s, that’s the choice.
For some, like, there can be some kidney issues. So it really does depend on you, your personal
concerns, your medical history. And that’s a really important conversation to have with your

[43:08] [Unknown] healthcare provider because it is, it’s a decision to make. And so you have to really see like where

[43:14] [Ed] the areas of risk are most alive in your life and what’s gonna be the most appropriate choice
for your personal life. There’s no one right decision. But I can tell you that with the proliferation
of prep, I work with the LA LGBT Center. And as of next year, because of their efforts,
there will be less than 500 cases of HIV in LA, in LA County. So like, they have essentially
the epidemic in LA County, which is wildly amazing. And it’s entirely because of the efforts
of those kinds of providers giving out prep for free, making it accessible, making condoms
available, having free testing. And so like, that should be a model to the world for what we can do
when people are really careful and thoughtful about their health and they have resources.

[44:11] [Guest] That’s fantastic. Do you, maybe you can tell me, do they use kind of a harm reduction model
with, as a basis for that program down there in LA in terms of kind of meeting people where they are.
And, and, you know, a stigma free or a judgment free. Absolutely. Yeah, it’s all about harm

[44:32] [Ed] reduction. They do need to exchange. They have free Narcan. Like, they’re not here to judge you
for your lifestyle. You can tell them that you just gang bang the football team. And there’ll be
like, cool. What do you want to get tested for? Like, not even, and you might feel a little like
crunchy talking to your like primary care doctor who’s been treating you since you were 12
to have that conversation. But like, that’s why things like LGBT centers exist and why they’re so

[44:57] [Guest] important. Yeah, I have some history with the Santa Cruz Needle Exchange program and their

[45:04] [Unknown] harm reduction model. And it was, it was enlightening to learn a lot about that. And it’s,

[45:09] [Guest] it’s good to hear that that’s still continuing with other areas. It’s awesome. Absolutely.
And showing good results too. I mean, statistically, that’s fantastic. And I think it’s a good

[45:19] [Ed] model for other counties and yeah, red states take note. This is how you fix problems. You don’t

[45:26] [Phoebe] just preach abstinence. Yes. In regards to herpes, I think a lot of people are, are ignorant.
They’re just ill informed and don’t really know. And there’s this stigma around it. And they
hear the word. And it’s like, you know, and they freak out. How do you educate somebody? You

[45:51] [Unknown] know, when, when, because if they, if they go, um, yes, I’m still interested in having sex with

[45:58] [Phoebe] you. Tell me more. Do they, do they actually, are they open to that? Or if you get the, oh my god,
and run away, then you’re just like, okay, next, you know, I mean, if they’re not open to the

[46:07] [Ed] conversation, then why bother, right? Honestly, in some ways, having herpes has been kind of a godsend
in terms of a litmus test for like sexually evolved humans. Because if their reaction is
eugh gross, that’s disgusting. You’re dirty. Like anything like that, then I’m like, wow,
thank you so much. I’m very sure that sex with you would have been deeply unsatisfying. So
I appreciate you saving me time. That’s just, that kind of closed my name to
stigma as it relates to sexuality, I think is a red flag. So I appreciate when people are either like,
oh, either one, me too, I’ve been getting cold source since I was a kid and like, no big,
or actually, could you tell me more? I’m curious, like, I’d like to understand, you know,
a little bit more about risks and things like that. Or just like, yeah, my girlfriend had it or
my ex had it and it’s fine. No worries. Like, those are all green flags for me. I think there is
still a lot of stigma, not just in the Swinger community, but in the world. Like, I cringe every
time a late night host makes herpes joke. I’m like, really, are we still there? Like, that’s the
low hanging fruit that you’re swatting at right now, like, come on. Because like you said,
it is incredibly common. Over 90% of people ages 14 to 49 have HSV1, which is oral.
And if you have a cold sore or if you are virally shedding and you go down on someone,
you could give them herpes, generally. And so it’s like the way that people are like, oh, I just
get cold sores or oh, it’s just a fever blister. It’s like, no, it’s herpes. It’s fine. Like, you
just say the word. It’s, it’s okay. And genital is not inherently the world. They’re both contagious
if you’re not paying attention. But there is medicine. I take a daily suppressive medication. So
that keeps me from having outbreaks by and large. And it also keeps me from having viral shedding.
And the only time it’s contagious is when you are having an active outbreak or you are having
viral shedding. So if you’re neither of those things are true, you cannot give someone herpes.
Perfect. Everyone is all educated. It wouldn’t be a podcast without some education.

[48:28] [Phoebe] At least ours. That’s awesome. Okay. Did you have something else? No, no, I think that’s great.

[48:38] [Guest] We’ve had this conversation with other people and we’ve done some research and your statistics

[48:43] [Unknown] about pretty much everybody having it. And especially with the asymptomatic nature of HSV1,

[48:51] [Guest] it’s almost impossible to know whether you have it unless you’ve gotten a test. And if you don’t

[48:57] [Unknown] have an outbreak, why would you go to a test for it? Yeah. So we’re all spreading it around to
everybody else without even knowing it. Right. So know what you know what you need to know.

[49:09] [Ed] And if you have one type, you’re less likely to get the other type. It’s not completely foolproof.
But if you already have antibodies for less a HSV1, then you are less likely to acquire HSV2.

[49:20] [Phoebe] Oh, interesting. No, I didn’t know that. Okay, cool. Learn something new.
All right. Let’s talk about fucking skilled lovers versus naughty lovers.
And I was listening to Double Team, the conversation you guys are having about skilled lovers and
and all of that. And we are what, 10, 11 years now into swinging. And most of our sex,
we’ve discovered, of course, years later, you’ll look back and go, you know what, I think we’re
a pretty much DTF all this whole time. I didn’t really even realize that till now. And we’re like,
oh, cool. Woo, high five. But a lot of that sex was novelty sex. And I loved the variety,
the differences. It’s the scene. It’s who’s there. It’s what happened organically. We’ve had
some really amazing soft swap experiences. In fact, some of those are our favorite. And sometimes
you do, you get in this really cool space where no one’s giving consent, but you see in their
eyes that they’re consent, you know, they’ll like put a hand like kind of like, can I touch and
you give a nod and, you know, there’s this thing. And no one’s offended. And it goes really well,
but that doesn’t happen all the time. Sometimes you do have to swat a hand around a man that’s
coming up behind you and touching you and he asks and you’re like, what? Hello, like I’m busy

[51:03] [Unknown] over here. What what what gave you the permission to just do that? But the novelty sex, which worked

[51:13] [Phoebe] for us in the beginning because we didn’t want that level of intimacy with people because we
started swinging before we were married while we were dating one another. Right. Right. So we
having another level of intimacy for me felt threatening because I didn’t want to ruin

[51:35] [Unknown] more disrupt our new relationship because it was new. And so because this was going to be my

[51:43] [Phoebe] third marriage, I was like, it’s three. And then I’m done. If this if this gets fucked up,
I’m just going to be single the rest of my life because I’m not going on four, five, six, right.
I’m going to get it right. And I’d find I scoured what I felt like was the entire planet and
I didn’t find anyone. And then he lands in my lap. And I’m like, wow, okay. So the diamond was
there. And so I felt very protective of it. So I’m like, I don’t really care what your name is.

[52:16] [Unknown] Let’s just fuck. This is going to be fun. Right. But but now I want something more. I want a

[52:23] [Phoebe] richer experience because I’m getting into that sensory play. And I have experienced some of
the sensory play and I have experienced some of the BDSM. And I’m like, really loving that experience.

[52:39] [Unknown] And honestly, what I really love is the mental part of it that asking, can I touch you? I mean,

[52:47] [Phoebe] oh, my God, that’s just like, I love what somebody asked me that. You know, would you like a kiss
here? Would you like a kiss there? Is that all right? If I touch here, oh, I would love to do this
to you. Would that be okay? Like my brain just goes bananas. And I love that. And we don’t do that
in swinging. So this is where you’re trying to have more of an intimate purposeful connection with
somebody that’s going to have a richer, more full experience. But the parties don’t really lend
itself to that. And but they are the best way to try and find people and see how you gel and try
before you buy something. So it’s challenging. So Ed and I have kind of slowed down a bit
in that regard to try and find honestly better lovers, a more meaningful interaction.
And how how has that been for you and your journey over time with your progression of
sex and relationships and and what you want? How has that changed? What you want?

[54:05] [Ed] Well, it’s, you know, like everyone that’s evolved over time. But I do want to draw a distinction.
There’s a little bit of a false dichotomy here where you can have anonymous, casual, like slightly
detached sex that’s still highly communicative, negotiated, and intimate. Like those two things
are not mutually exclusive. I think it requires you to be a lot more self-aware and situationally

[54:33] [Unknown] aware, which not all people are. And also, well, man, I want to dive into the psychology of like

[54:39] [Ed] trying to protect the relationship by only having casual interactions with others because there’s
so much in there as a relationship coach that I want to pick apart. But because this is not
coaching side for you, I’m going to leave that to the side. But I think and I see actually a lot
of this in the Tantra world. Tantra communities tend to do this really well where you can really
drop in with someone for five minutes and have like a transformative transcendent orgasmic like
mind-blowing experience. Never know their name. Never see them again. Like those things are possible.
But you have to be savvy. And I think what I would say about the Swinger world is there can be a

[55:31] [Unknown] little bit of sloppiness and a little bit of laziness. Like there seems to be, and this is not true

[55:39] [Ed] for everyone by any stretch of the imagination. And this is not certainly not exclusive to Swingers.

[55:44] [Unknown] But there seems to be a little bit of like, I just want it to be easy. I don’t want to have to think

[55:50] [Ed] about it. I don’t want to have to try real hard. I just want to like get off and move on with my day
so that we can kind of check the box that like, look, sweetie, we have a spicy relationship. We
fucked a couple last weekend. Like cool story. What’s actually going on in a relationship.
But like I really, and the way that this relates to my journey is I feel very strongly that I
will be the change I want to see in the bedroom. And if I want to manifest the kind of sex that is
most appealing to me, which is really skillful, high level, hot, intimate, consent focused, dirty
is all fucking get out like filthy, kinky, all the things, then I need to come with that
ability to have those conversations and to co-create that experience with whoever happens to be sitting
in front of me if they are equally open to an experience like that. I’m a strong dancer. I can lead

[56:53] [Unknown] you if you’re willing to be led. So for me, it comes down to like, how do I want to show up? What

[57:01] [Ed] vibe do I want to send out and who am I attracting with the way that I relate to people in those
settings? And that tends to set me up with success. And then also how skillfully can I say like,
oh no, actually, I don’t want to do anal tonight. I saw that you were getting close to my
asshole. I just wanted to check in and then let you know that that’s a boundary for me.
Like, can I do that kind of seamlessly in the moment? Or am I going to sit there like clenching,

[57:25] [Guest] kind of squarming away from you, hoping you notice? Right, right. Yeah, and I think
it sounds to me like, and I’m going to try and paraphrase what you said, but it sounds almost
like mindfulness, like being very present in the moment and kind of taking that experience
as it is and really paying attention to your lover and what their cues are, but also being able
to communicate what you want and listening to what they want. And that ability to say that
having a voice is pretty challenging. And when we talked about, you know, being people,
pleasers and being afraid of hurting people’s feelings, I think that’s where a lot of the bad
sex comes from in swinging. And that is, I don’t really want to rock the boat. So I’m just going to
like pretend that this was fun. And he’ll go away happy. She’ll go away happy, whatever. And
yeah, you walk away from it and you’re like, yeah, all right. Yeah, okay. Yeah. Or I don’t want to be

[58:33] [Unknown] guilty of robbing that partner’s experience. Yeah, I, we, we did a lot of orgies in the beginning,

[58:42] [Phoebe] a lot of what that was just what was around. That was the easiest. And they were fun. And I liked
that energy and I would feed off that energy. But there really wasn’t time for a lot of mindfulness

[58:57] [Unknown] during that because it’s just a sea of, of bodies. And, and I, and there’s a lot of aspects I

[59:05] [Phoebe] love to it. Really, what I love about it is the energy and the sensory play. I really could care
less about the penetrative sex because it gets, it takes me a while to have a really good
penetrative sex orgasm. So it really can’t be an orgy situation. It has to be

[59:28] [Unknown] a setting where there aren’t any other distractions. So while the lifestyle has been really fun
and beneficial in a lot of ways, I’ve learned a ton about myself and my sexuality and, you know,
asking for what I want and using my voice and telling people softer, slower, you know, nibble

[59:49] [Phoebe] here, pinch there, grind there, right, deeper, faster, all those things. I mean, I’ve really
improved my own experience by just saying it, which seems so simple. But sometimes I don’t know
why you don’t, you don’t do that. What’s that like? We’re not, I don’t know. It’s something maybe
we just have to learn an evolution of our own sexuality. Well, I have an opinion on that, but I’d

[01:00:17] [Ed] love to hear Ashley’s thought on that. Yeah. I think there’s a lot of growth that can be had
in these communities. And I think one of the really big growth edges for swingers,
not just swingers, by any means, like I don’t mean to come down on swingers. This is across the
board in every group sex situation I’ve ever really been in other than the King community. They’ve
got it pretty solidly dialed in. But there’s this very like binary understanding of consent. Like,
consent has finally become a buzzword, but it’s still very like yes to this note of that, yes to
this note of that, where there is a really amazing educator named Betty Martin who has come up with
something called the wheel of consent, which is a circle with four quadrants. And on one side, it’s
who’s doing the thing and who’s it being done to. And then it’s for me, it’s for you.
Because being clear on what’s being done and who it’s for is a really important nuance to
consent that I don’t think gets considered very often. Because there are people who get off on the
anonymity, the danger, the sort of free flowing, like one of my friends hosts gay last few nights

[01:01:35] [Unknown] in LA. And you know, these guys show up with recent test results and a jockstrap. They check

[01:01:44] [Ed] their clothes at the door. And then it’s just like, oh, there’s a hole. I’m going to stick my dick
in it. Like, there’s no conversation. And like, that’s what they’re going there for.
Love that for you. I’m not here to shame you or tell you that that’s bad or wrong. If that’s
what you’re going for, then those spaces absolutely exist for you, where it gets tricky is if one
person is seeking an experience like that and the other is seeking like you a more like slow,
sensual, like really thoughtful experience. And there’s no way to know that one person is here
and the other person is there without talking about it. And so, you know, if somebody comes up to
you and is like, hi, I’m trying to suck at any dicks as I can tonight. Can I please suck yours? It’s
for me. Like, I’m not actually going to do it maybe even in the way that you like it or the way
that you know, it’s not about you. It’s about me checking a dick sucking off my list so I can add
to like the tally. Then you can go, yeah, that sounds awesome. I’d love to help you out. Or
no, I have really strong opinions about how my dick gets sucked. So like, no, thank you. Please

[01:02:50] [Unknown] move on to the next candidate. Yeah. Yeah. We have a friend in the lifestyle who’s actually,

[01:03:00] [Guest] we have several ladies who are into the fantasy of just like being trench buccacchi. They just
want to be covered in it. And it’s not a thing for me. Like, it doesn’t really do much for me.
But I am happy to help fulfill that particular deed for her. Taking one for the team.

[01:03:20] [Unknown] That’s what does it for? Sure. Why not? I’ll throw my coin in that fountain.

[01:03:26] [Phoebe] And we have another lifestyle friend who who loves gangbanks. And she had like 50 guys at that
the power exchange that they were coordinated for her birthday. I think on her 50th birthday.
And so I asked her. I was deeply curious. I was like, okay. So what?
How was that? What did you like about it? What is it that does it for you? What is that thing?
And she said, and then when she described it, I got it. She goes, I really get off on their
approach. How they approach me. Some of them are timid. Some of them are like a component.
Some of them are shaking. Like everyone their approach is different. And she goes, I love being
able to just bring them in no matter where they’re at with their their level of confidence.
And I was like, oh, I see. This is a you have all the power. I get it. Ding. And then it made sense to me.
I’m getting this now. So like you just never know. And this is why I always ask because initially,
you know, some people are like, oh, gang, I’m like, yeah, but did you ask why? I mean, there’s a reason.

[01:04:51] [Ed] I’m sure it’s really cool. I’m so happy I now have a reason to tell this story. Okay. So I
last month in October, I guess now two months ago, in October, I had my fluopian tubes removed.
So I am fully baby proof. And in addition to like feeling really safe now that I have bodily autonomy
and I can’t get pregnant. And also I’ve lowered my ovarian cancer risk by 80%. I actually had a
conversation with my surgeon about this very thing. And as I was like in getting prepped for surgery,
I mentioned that I was going to hedonism in January. And I was so excited that I’d be like
there and sterile and and able to like have a gang bang ad hedonism if I so chose and not have
to worry about getting pregnant. And to my delight, the oar nurse was like, I’ve been to hedonism in
1987. What a cool place. I was like, fuck, yes.
Made my whole day. I love like my surgeon was a woman. The whole surgical team was female.
It was so delightful. But like someday when I have that gang bang experience and I want to take 20

[01:05:54] [Unknown] fucking loads over and over like just one after another, I am not interested in their skill level

[01:06:01] [Ed] or how well they’re fucking me. In that moment, I just want as much come inside of me as possible.
And like that’s what we’re doing it for. So that’s where like being clear about who’s it for?
What’s the goal? Like how do you want to feel at the end? And and having everyone be on the same

[01:06:17] [Guest] page about that is really, really important. Yes. Oh, so much. So it’s interesting. We’ve
been having conversations. We have issues with labels. So classic example, just because someone says
that they’re soft swap. The question is, what does that mean? You’re full swap. What does that
mean? Because it’s a definition in a book. But everybody kind of spins it their own way.
So the definition that we’ve been playing with lately is hot wife, hot husband,
cock hold. And that’s such a spectrum of different types of interactions. So to your point,
two people getting into a room and having a conversation about a thing, you kind of get pretty
specific because it’s open to interpretation. And so having that intentional conversation about
what you want and what you want to get out of it, we talk about consent all the time where it’s
like don’t rattle off the things that you don’t do. Because that means there’s a whole bunch of
stuff on the plate. Because sexual activity is a pretty big buffet. I mean, there’s so many
things. So many things. So and even saying I want to do this, you should be a little bit more
specific because it’s kind of how you like to do it. So yes, you want BIV sex. You want to have
full penetrative sex. What how? Fast, slow, deep, so many variables. Grindy. I mean, like,

[01:08:00] [Ed] yeah, I want you to go down me, but don’t lick my asshole. Because once you touch my ass, you have
to go listering before you can touch my pussy again, because booty cooties don’t belong in the
vulva. So like, you got to be real clear. Because some people are like, oh no, like, I got so excited
eating your pussy. I wanted to eat your ass a little bit. I’m like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

[01:08:17] [Unknown] don’t want the UTI. Thank you very much. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, although we did hear something

[01:08:27] [Guest] recently from from Dr. Jen, um, Gunter about that, about wiping forward to backward. And she,
she was saying that it’s it’s actually less of a thing than than it’s been made out to. I am not
advocating that anybody go from your butt to your vulva at all. I’m just saying. I love Jen Gunter,

[01:08:48] [Ed] but I imagine like all things, there’s room for nuance there. Like, there’s a very big difference
between somebody who’s wiping back to front who starts at their vaginal opening and goes up versus

[01:08:57] [Unknown] somebody who’s wiping from their asshole up. But like, there’s, that’s not how you wipe poop off,

[01:09:03] [Ed] you know, like that, that’s the nuance really matters. And, and like you said, there’s a very big
difference between sticking your tongue in someone’s ass hole. And then you’re looking their vulva
around their urethra and, you know, like, wiping in a way that is probably fine if you’re otherwise,

[01:09:21] [Guest] like, hygienic 100% 100% especially depending on how much they’re into licking your ass because,

[01:09:32] [Ed] you know, if they’re like really into it. Exactly. Yeah, how enthusiastic are you? Now that we’re

[01:09:39] [Phoebe] talking about assholes, it just reminded me, this is a fascinating fact because I love fascinating
facts. We’re going to go back to cannabis in the butt. Tell us why cannabis in the butt doesn’t

[01:09:50] [Ed] work. What is this thing? It’s not that it doesn’t work. It’s actually an incredibly bioavailable
and effective way of consuming cannabis. What it doesn’t do for most people is it doesn’t get you
high, but it can relax you, which is interesting because if you put Molly in your ass, that will
definitely get you high. Oh, yeah. I’m not entirely sure. And I have heard from people, like,
oh, no, I use this repository annually and it actually did get me high. So I feel like it’s a very
much of your mileage may vary, but I am very sensitive to THC. I only do like five milligrams
edibles and I have put 50, 100 milligrams in my ass and just felt like chill. Well, like a warm
blanket around my abdomen, but not high at all. So it is a great way to bypass
your liver, which is one of the, so it doesn’t metabolize the same way as an edible does.

[01:10:46] [Unknown] So that’s one of the reasons that you don’t get high, but that one is especially weird

[01:10:52] [Ed] considering that like it doesn’t get you high with cannabis, but it absolutely will if you put

[01:10:56] [Phoebe] MDMA in your ass or alcohol or care or alcohol or any other kind of intoxicating substance. So

[01:11:02] [Ed] like that is where my health and physiology knowledge fills me. And if you are a rectal expert,
please shed light on why that is. I would love to learn more.

[01:11:17] [Guest] Right. Yeah. If any of you listening to this are doctors or nurses and there are very high
percentage of you listening who are doctors and nurses because we know you’re in the lifestyle.
Let us know. Yeah, because I’m curious from kind of like a physiology standpoint, it makes sense
that alcohol gets absorbed through the intestinal walls, right? There’s a lot of digestion that

[01:11:40] [Unknown] goes on in that portion of the intestines. You know, there’s tons of blood vessels there. So it makes
a lot of sense that it gets absorbed, but then why not the cannabis? That’s right. I know, right?

[01:11:56] [Phoebe] I know. I want to wrap this up and I want to also ask you, what are your newest projects and what

[01:12:03] [Ed] does your 2025 look like? I’m so glad you asked. So my 2025 is starting out on the best possible high
note, which is I am going to be better at being bad week, the naughty gym, takeover at
hedonism in Jamaica from January 4th to the 11th. I am one of the sex experts who will be teaching.
I’m teaching dirty talk and my live demo hand job class, which was wildly popular earlier this
year. And I’m also doing a keynote on sex cannabis and psychedelics. And imagine why? That is like
chef’s kiss. The best way I can think of to start the year. And I hope that I get to start every
year like that moving forward. When I get back, I have two really cool programs that I’m running.
One starts in January and one starts in February. And the February one is a brand new. You all are
the first podcast to hear about it offering. So yay. The January program I’ve been running since 2021,
it’s called activating your cosmic pussy and it is an online intensive for women all about
sex magic, loving your body, plant medicine, owning your desires, clearing your throat chakra,
like just basically tapping into all of the pleasure potential of your body and like really owning
that and connecting with other witchy, sexy, amazing women. So that program starts in January and
that’s been rolling now. And then my other program that’s brand new is it’s called attuning to
the cosmic orgasm. And that is actually going to be a 90 day group coaching program that is available

[01:13:48] [Unknown] to everyone over 21. Everyone, whether you are single, couple, poly, triad, polycule, like that’s

[01:14:01] [Ed] all fine. You can be any gender under the sun. That’s all fine. Like everyone is welcome. And it’s
going to be a 90 day program will do weekly 90 minute calls. And then you’ll also have access to
a discord server and everyone who enrolls also gets a 45 minute one on one with me. Just one,
but everyone else like the rest of it is all in a group setting. And it’s going to be about
really deepening your relationship with yourself, with your partner, how you show up, how you
communicate, how well you know your body, and then how you can start to integrate other aspects of
like sacred sexuality, energetic sex, tantra, kink, and and really enrich yourself as a sexual being.

[01:14:42] [Phoebe] And that’s what I mean by attuning to the cosmic orgasm. Oh, that sounds amazing. That’s really
exciting. I’m going to go. So I’m going to go check that out. I literally just put up the website

[01:14:55] [Ed] yesterday. I’m so excited about it. And in fact, you know, for all of your Swinger University
listeners, I will offer a 15% discount if they click the link. I will send you fantastic. So we

[01:15:07] [Unknown] will put that link in the show notes and you heard it. Yeah. Yeah. That’s awesome. That’s

[01:15:14] [Phoebe] awesome. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I’m really super excited about that. I’m probably going to be signing
up for that. We love to have you. Let’s see. So if someone wanted to do a virtual coaching
system with you, they can also do that on your website, right? Absolutely. Ken, they can set up a

[01:15:31] [Ed] free discovery call with me, which is like 20, 30 minutes of us just chatting. You let me know
whether you’re an individual or partnered in any capacity, kind of what your goals are, what’s
really like of concern for you right now. And just like feel each other out and see if we have a
good vibe to work together. And then I have coaching programs that are just like one-off sessions
or I do like three, six, nine month programs. Nice. That’s really nice. I like that. I like the idea

[01:15:59] [Phoebe] that you do like a full free 20, 15, 15, 15 and 30 minutes depends on like how quickly we figure out

[01:16:07] [Ed] like, oh, yeah, I definitely want to do. But I feel like, you know, coaches are like sneakers. You
really got to try it on and make sure it’s the right fit for you if we’re going to like run a marathon

[01:16:16] [Phoebe] together. Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. That’s make a lot of sense. I don’t think anybody else does
that. I like that a lot. Let’s see. And then if someone wants to book you for your in-person events,
like how did they do that also on your website? Just email me. If you want to work with me in

[01:16:33] [Ed] pretty much any capacity, you can just email me. I also have some pre-recorded like standalone
workshops from hand jobs to how to be a booty boss to energetic sex. And you can find that on,
there’s a link to it on my main website, which is canisexual.com, but you can also go straight to
elevatedintimacy.com that has all of my self-paced online courses where you’re like, you know what,
I’m not ready to work with you one-on-one, but I’d like to learn. I have a dirty talk course. Like,
that’s all available for you that you can just take in the privacy of your own home at your own pace.

[01:17:05] [Phoebe] That’s right. Yeah, I had that there like in your five essentials steps to dirty talk.
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that’s free, right? That is free. When you sign up through

[01:17:15] [Ed] the dirty talk, I have like a kind of a lead gen thing that you can just get like a free dirty talk.

[01:17:19] [Phoebe] Start a guide. Nice. See freebies on this. In this economy, I feel you guys like I want to make

[01:17:28] [Ed] this video free. I’m expensive, but I’m worth it, but I also have like more affordable options.

[01:17:33] [Phoebe] Love that confidence. Well, Ashley, thank you so, so much for taking the time to be on our show.
We really appreciate your expertise and your time with us today because we know your time is

[01:17:47] [Unknown] valuable and we just value you so, so much so. Thank you for being with us. It was such a pleasure

[01:17:53] [Ed] chatting with you both. I’m really, really excited and I thank you for having me.

[01:18:01] [Phoebe] I’m really excited about 2025 for you and if we can do anything to help propel you forward,

[01:18:07] [Unknown] please let us know. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in. We appreciate you joining our community.

[01:18:16] [Guest] Don’t forget your homework. Tell a friend about our show and if you like, leave a review and a
comment. You can also leave us a voicemail at 916-538-0482 or if you reach out to us at SwingerUniversity.com.
We have a way, a way, a way for you to leave us an anonymous message and it just shows up as a
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a couple on a row. We’d love to hear from you. We’d love to hear your stories or if you have anything
that you can tell us about why your colon will not absorb THC. We’d love to know.
And as we say, keep learning, keep growing, and keep it sexy.

[01:19:06] [Unknown] Oh my god, that’s awesome. Oh, one last thing before you go. If this episode helped you in any way,

[01:20:12] [Guest] the single best thing you can do to support the show is leaving a rating and review.
It takes 60 seconds and helps new people find us when they’re searching for relationship
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All the instructions are there. Thank you for being part of this community. We’ll see you again soon.