The One Chemical Behind Chocolate, Swinging, and Addiction – Dopamine

TRANSCRIPT

Language: en
Duration: 1h 5m 26s

Speakers: Ed, Guest, Phoebe

[00:00] [Phoebe] It’s this powerful cocktail that like hits us like cocaine.
Oh, you don’t want a little piece of chocolate.
Oh, well now your dopamine levels just went up 55%.
That’s a thousand percent over your baseline dopamine level.

[00:15] [Unknown] I felt it bigly.

[00:18] [Phoebe] Oh boy.

[00:19] [Unknown] God, it feels like like I’m a teenager again.

[00:23] [Phoebe] The spike is less and less, but you need more,
right to get high and sex in a hot air balloon.

[00:31] [Ed] Never done that before.
Welcome to Swinger University.
I’m Ed.
And I’m Phoebe.
Today is going to be really fascinating because we dive into
NRE or new relationship energy.
We talk about some novelty aspects of the lifestyle and how
that really kind of triggers all of the pleasure centers in your brain.
And we’re going to talk about pleasure paradox.

[00:57] [Phoebe] Yep.

[00:57] [Ed] We’re going to talk about chasing dopamine and, of course,
the whole addictive aspect of ethical non-monogamy.
So it’s going to be fun.
We’re going to have a good time with it.
Let’s talk about this a little bit.
We’ve talked about new relationship energy before
from the aspect of you and single males.
A hot wife aspect.

[01:29] [Phoebe] Right, right, right.
And did you want me to elaborate?
Sure, let’s talk a little bit about single males or

[01:41] [Ed] your hot wife experience.

[01:43] [Unknown] Well, let’s go into a little bit first and then I’ll provide that as an example.

[01:49] [Phoebe] Okay, I was excited to talk about you.
I know, I know.
So with the new relationship energy
and the scientific chemical thing that goes on with all of us,
you’ve got your dopamine, your serotonin, your
norreparin.
Norreparin.

[02:12] [Ed] Norreparin.
Oh, wow.
Now you’ve got mealtons.
Norreparin.
Norreparin.

[02:17] [Phoebe] That’s it.
I can’t look at your phonetics.

[02:20] [Ed] No, it’s just.

[02:21] [Unknown] Norreparin.

[02:22] [Phoebe] And then that equals desire and attraction.
Right.
And then the oxytocin creates the bonding.
Right.
And so that’s this powerful cocktail that like hits us like cocaine.

[02:37] [Guest] Yeah.

[02:38] [Phoebe] And there’s a book I was reading
called Dopamine Nation by Anna Lemke.

[02:45] [Unknown] She’s a MD.

[02:49] [Phoebe] And she had some really fascinating data in this book.
I highly recommend it.
Some of this, this was fascinating to me.
I want to call this out.
Let’s just say you’re, well,
your dopamine levels are like at your base level.
Right.

[03:08] [Ed] We’ll just talk about your normal baseline.
You wake up in the morning and you’ve had your cup of coffee

[03:13] [Unknown] and you’re at your normal level of whatever.

[03:18] [Ed] What is that?

[03:19] [Phoebe] Yeah.
Right.
You’re just normal baseline.
Right.
Okay.
So after you had your cup of coffee,
you’re just like, oh, you don’t want a little piece of chocolate.
Oh, well, now your dopamine levels just went up 55%.
55% just from a piece of chocolate.
Now, let’s say, oh, come by 10 o’clock,
you’re feeling a little frisky.
You work with your partner at home.
And you’re like, I want a little or maybe it’s lunchtime.
And you’re like, I want a little nooner.

[03:46] [Guest] I want a break.

[03:47] [Phoebe] Oh, now your dopamine just went up 100%
over your baseline.

[03:52] [Unknown] Right.

[03:53] [Phoebe] Fascinating.
I didn’t know this.
Now, after your little rendezvous
between the sheets, you’re like, oh,
I can really use a cigarette right now.
That was just fabulous.
Oh, that’s a that’s 150% over your baseline.
Right.
Now, what I don’t know is, is it additive?
Like, does the chocolate with the sex with the cigarette
like make it 300% over?
Right.
I mean, is it accumulative?
Emulative?
Maybe it could be.

[04:28] [Ed] Yeah, I don’t know.
That’s a very good question.

[04:30] [Phoebe] Add a party.
Let’s just say you’re a smoker.
You go out, you have a smoke and you come back in
and you’re into the white fluffy stuff called snow.
The snow is going to add an extra
225% over your normal baseline.
So now you have the 150 with the nicotine.
You’ve had your 225.
Now you’re well into 500 or so percent.
Right.
I think that was correct math.
Maybe not.
Might not not quite that close.
You want to take it up even more
and you’re into a photo means that’s a thousand percent
over your baseline dopamine level.

[05:10] [Ed] Which is crazy.
Right. And that really kind of nails
why some people get addicted to the drugs
because it is such a, it’s a brain high, right?
Like it’s releasing all of these
field good chemicals up in your brain.
Now, of course, we don’t mention the side effects of like
cocaine, which is severe wallet anxiety and loss.
And when you don’t talk about amphetamine,
which is loss of dental work and, you know,

[05:42] [Phoebe] is that the scratching of the face or is that something else?

[05:44] [Ed] Uh, yeah.
It’ll happen with that too, right?

[05:48] [Unknown] So severe facial dismemberment,
it typically happens with methamphetamines.

[05:56] [Phoebe] So dopamine can hit pretty darn hard.
And it can last, I mean, you as a, as a swinger,
you could be doing this for six months for five years.
I mean, going at it,
it could, it could be pretty darn steady.
Right.
And, and as you go, depending on how often you’re doing things,
and when you’re doing them, or how long you’re doing them,

[06:25] [Unknown] it, you know, the length could, could vary.
Right.

[06:29] [Phoebe] You’ve got the people, the events, the resorts,

[06:32] [Unknown] and the types of relationships that are all going to be

[06:36] [Phoebe] different factors for your dopamine high.

[06:39] [Ed] Right. So here’s, here’s some factors that we can talk about.

[06:43] [Unknown] So one of the things that you can think about is,

[06:47] [Ed] if you live in an area that has maybe a lifestyle club,

[06:51] [Unknown] or you could go at every week, like every Saturday night,

[06:56] [Ed] that’s your thing.
That means Saturday night, you’re guaranteed to,
to see stuff that’s going to
increase that dopamine level in your head and you’re signed up for it.
So if you’ve got that need, that addiction to that feeling
every week, every week, you’re there.

[07:17] [Unknown] And then you start to wonder, like,

[07:21] [Ed] how long can you sustain that?

[07:22] [Unknown] How long does it, can you keep that up?

[07:25] [Phoebe] So yeah.
And I think later in the episode, I’m not sure if I talk about it down there,
but I probably do, but I was starting to think about
when there’s a certain amount of that addiction
comes in where you’ve gone to that club,
and you’ve seen and felt, and had an experience,
and now you bring that home, and now it’s in your brain.

[07:52] [Ed] And so now when you think about it,

[07:58] [Phoebe] it instantly triggers that same response,

[08:00] [Unknown] and with true addiction,

[08:03] [Phoebe] all you have to do is think about it.
Correct.
And you want it, which is why
the step programs are so important for addicts,
because you really do have to change your habits drastically.
You have to change your beef up your support system,
change all your friends, remove yourself from those environments,
because you’re still going to have your
and reach out to your sponsor.
Because when you think about it,
it actually, your body starts to feel the craving or feel that need.
Right.
Because of the brain is powerful.
It’s the brain drugs, the chemicals.
The chemical drugs.
Yeah.

[08:44] [Ed] So let’s talk about this, because

[08:46] [Phoebe] Wait, whoa, am I going to talk about the single male?

[08:48] [Ed] Well, that’s what I was going to get into.
Oh, okay.
We’ve talked about the chemical aspect,
but we haven’t really talked about,
well, how does that apply to new relationship energy?
Like what is that?

[08:58] [Unknown] Yes.

[08:59] [Phoebe] Yes.
Okay.
So I felt it bigly.

[09:03] [Ed] Oh, boy.
You went there.

[09:06] [Phoebe] I did go there.

[09:10] [Unknown] When the single male was giving me attention,

[09:15] [Phoebe] it was attention from somebody else.
It was attention and a text message initially.
And usually text messages don’t do anything for me,
but this guy had a way with words.
And he was very talented with his words.
And we met at a bar.
All three of us.

[09:36] [Unknown] We hadn’t had a, you know, it was great.

[09:41] [Phoebe] And then we set up a date.
And then when he came over,
the interaction was incredible.
It was lovely.
It was, we had a great time.
It was a lot of fun.
But that was a different kind of high
than what we, we have experienced with a couple or an orgy.
And it, I found myself thinking while I was going on walks,
listening to other podcasts, I found myself just my mind kind of wandering
and thinking about that interaction.
And it bothered me a bit because I didn’t want that to, to,
I didn’t want to be thinking about it a lot.
It started to consume my thoughts.
I felt a little bit more right during the day than I wanted to.
And that made me uncomfortable.
And I knew that was the chemical reaction still happening in my body.

[10:37] [Guest] Right.

[10:38] [Phoebe] And it does take probably a good
read of five days for that to dissipate.
So I just waited it out.
And I talked with you about it.
And I said, look, this, this is making me uncomfortable.

[10:52] [Unknown] Right.

[10:53] [Ed] I don’t know what to do with these feelings.

[10:55] [Phoebe] I don’t know what to do with these feelings.
I know they’re not real feelings.
They’re valid feelings, but they’re not feelings that are going to make me
change or move my mind on like our connection.

[11:10] [Unknown] Right.

[11:10] [Phoebe] But it was, it was oddly
weird to kind of stand outside my body and look at myself and go,
God, it feels like, like I’m a teenager again.
It’s just so powerful.
It was bizarre.

[11:28] [Ed] Yeah.
Yeah.
You, that the triggering of that dopamine,
that new experience caused your body

[11:37] [Unknown] to feel good things.

[11:39] [Ed] The memories of that were triggering the dopamine release to be continued.

[11:44] [Phoebe] Yes.

[11:45] [Ed] And then,
because it was novel, it was different.
Yes.
That novelty also triggered you to think about it,
because it wasn’t something that you were used to.

[11:57] [Phoebe] Right.
Right.
So we, we had a few more interactions
in that regard with, with singles,
but I decided that’s probably not for me, because
it just, it messed,
messed with my head a little bit too much.
I didn’t like the, I didn’t like have, I didn’t like thinking about

[12:21] [Unknown] somebody else, like, like that in that way.

[12:24] [Phoebe] Or looking forward to that.
Now, would have have gotten better
if, after I got used to it,
over time, possibly.
But how long did, would that take?

[12:36] [Ed] Yeah.
I don’t know.

[12:38] [Phoebe] Because the newness of swinging
kind of dissipated for us,

[12:45] [Unknown] oh, I don’t know.

[12:46] [Phoebe] It didn’t even get close to dissipating
until, like, maybe around year 10,
maybe year 11.

[12:54] [Unknown] Right.

[12:54] [Phoebe] Where we have, over time,
been to enough events, had enough experiences,
been to enough venues and resorts and meet and greets, etc., etc.,
that we were kind of like,

[13:07] [Unknown] yeah, you know,

[13:08] [Ed] been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

[13:10] [Phoebe] Yeah.
Yeah.
Kind of know what to expect.

[13:14] [Ed] Yeah, that novelty had kind of worn off.
It wasn’t, it wasn’t new in Chinese.
The new swing or smell, so to speak,
kind of rubbed off a little bit.

[13:23] [Guest] Yeah, yeah.

[13:24] [Ed] So, which is actually a really good segue
to our next section, which is about novelty,
and how novelty
our brains crave novelty.
They do.
They do.
So, that’s 100% reason why everybody
has their new phone
every year because it’s new.
It’s novel.
Yep.
And, the long and short of it is,
it’s not much different than your existing phone.
I mean, especially this particular one.
This year, you know, it’s, oh, it’s like,
it’s 10% thinner.
And it’s got one hour more battery life.

[14:08] [Unknown] So, companies, sales companies,

[14:13] [Ed] organizations,
prey on that novelty because all of our brains crave it.
We live for this as human beings.

[14:22] [Unknown] And that’s

[14:24] [Ed] half the reason why NRE is so powerful
because it’s different.
It’s novel.
It kind of breaks you out of your normal routine.
And we like trying new things.

[14:34] [Phoebe] Well, and it’s, and on a scientific level.
I mean, it’s innate to our survival.
It’s part of our evolution.
We crave new foods or we need to seek new foods.
We like seeking out new people and new interactions and new places.
Right.
It’s just part of that innate
ness of our being.
Right.
And so, as we said before, dopamine is going to be that primary driver.
It rewards the pursuit of novelty.
Right.
So, it’s quite the loop that you get going.
And it does
dopamine release different amounts in
each person.
So, each person’s reward pathway is going to be a little different.

[15:27] [Unknown] And so,

[15:30] [Phoebe] once again, what’s, what’s, you know,
it’s not universal to everybody.
Not everybody’s going to have that same experience.
Right.

[15:37] [Ed] That same level of reaction that, that feeling, right?

[15:41] [Phoebe] Yeah.
And we’ve, we’ve seen, seen, we had a couple that we really, really liked
that started off here and they just went.

[15:52] [Ed] Oh, yeah.
It was straight into orbit.

[15:55] [Phoebe] P and V.
They, I mean, you could tell.
They, they just blasted off.
They started it off.
Probably it meet and greets.
They went to, then they were hosting, then they were hosting 20

[16:09] [Ed] person orgy house party things.

[16:12] [Phoebe] And then, and then they were vanilla hunting.
Drugs started coming into part of the experience of it all.
Right.
And then, yes, then they were vanilla hunting.
And then, I mean, it just, wow, they, they were doing all of it.
And I think they may have tried dating separately even for a while.
So, they tried all of it.
I don’t know if they went to Polly.
Which is always my fear is like, oh my god, if we start here,
then we’re going to be like, we don’t have a big enough house to go Polly.

[16:42] [Ed] Just, I’m just saying, you know, they have to sleep here in the podcast room.

[16:46] [Phoebe] Not that there’s anything wrong with Polly.
I’m not referring that at all.
I just know that’s not for me.
I, my brain wouldn’t be able to manage all that.
My emotions wouldn’t be able to manage all that.
It’s a thing.
Yeah, but some people are really wired for that.
And, and I love that for them.
I really do.
So, we can all get high on novelty.
And eventually, it can be normalized as I was talking about earlier.
Right.
We can get that desensitized.

[17:18] [Unknown] As you mentioned, then they’re done that about the t-shirt.

[17:21] [Phoebe] I don’t get caught up in NRE anymore because 9 out of 10 such flings don’t go anywhere.
And I have to be selective about taking on new people because of time and energy constraints.
I get NRE from not just a connection with someone, but I’ll get the NRE from
just the social engagement.
Like to me, that’s kind of new relationship energy as well.
Right, right.
You’re, you’ve met somebody new and they share your perspective and you’re like,
oh my god, you’re just like me.
Oh my gosh, I, I have the same thing or I think the same way or I feel the same way.
And what about X, Y, and Z?
So then you want to go back and you want to engage with that person,
which sometimes people call that just friendship.
But yes, it’s in that social setting that gives me that
feeling that I belong, the feeling of belonging and just acceptance.
And that’s really lovely.
And I think I will always have that and I’ll always miss it when I don’t have it.
But it’s a lovely place to be.
Someone asked what vanilla hunting is.

[18:42] [Unknown] Oh, so vanilla hunting is when you’re, let’s just say at an eye or at a bar.

[18:52] [Phoebe] And our bartender is very sexy.
It’s a, let’s just say it’s woman.
This actually is kind of a true story.
It really happened.
And we are just, you know, we’re waiting for our table to open up.
We’re at the bar.
We’re having a drink.
And our bartender was a woman and she was just very sexy.
Like she was wearing sexy clothes and she,
her confidence.
So her attitude was very sexy.
She was very confident.
She would smile.
And I swear she would like,
just like wink at you without winking.
Like you could tell she was just being super flirty.
And I was, and when she, and she kept coming back to us.
So I kept trying to have private conversations with Ed.
Like she flirting with us.
What do you think?
Should we, right?
And so she kept coming back and giving us all this extra attention.

[19:52] [Unknown] And I said, you know, we could totally vanilla hunt her.

[19:56] [Phoebe] So we thought she was a non-swinger, not in the lifestyle,
but definitely interested in us.
And maybe she really was a swinger.

[20:05] [Ed] Maybe she was.
Maybe she wasn’t.
Well, we didn’t find out.

[20:08] [Phoebe] No, but the theory is you flirt
and with someone who’s not even in the lifestyle.

[20:17] [Unknown] And snile.

[20:19] [Phoebe] I said, snile.
In the lifestyle, I haven’t even been drinking.
Can you convert them?
You hunt them down.
Right.
You hunt a vanilla,

[20:28] [Ed] even if it’s only for one night, right?
Evening a little bit of fun.

[20:33] [Phoebe] Right.
We’re here at a bar and you’re dancing and you’re super flirty.
And all of a sudden you’re dragging a single woman home dragging, you know,

[20:43] [Unknown] obviously with consent home to your house.
And she’s like,

[20:47] [Phoebe] woohoo, you know, what happens one night stays, you know,
what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.
Right.
And then off she goes.

[20:54] [Unknown] And then later in her 60s she goes,

[20:56] [Phoebe] oh, that one night in my 20s one.
Yeah.

[20:59] [Ed] At that time, that time in Vegas.

[21:01] [Phoebe] Yeah.
Let’s see.
Another question.

[21:07] [Unknown] Oh, oh, Ken of Ken.

[21:09] [Phoebe] Ken of Ken.
Hello, Ken of Ken.
The real NRE magic for me isn’t what I chase.
It’s the unexpected.
Like when someone you’re into,
but assume would never be into tells you the same thing.

[21:25] [Ed] Yeah, that is pretty exciting.

[21:27] [Phoebe] That’s that’s that unexpected.

[21:29] [Unknown] Oh, oh, me.

[21:32] [Ed] It’s very flattering to get that kind of.

[21:35] [Phoebe] Yes.

[21:36] [Unknown] Unexpected validation, if you will.

[21:40] [Phoebe] Yes, I have had that happen.
We were in Costa Rica when that happened.
We were in the pool.
And there was somebody I had already,
Ed and I had already had like a little
sideline conversation because we really wanted to kind of hone in
on a couple of the couples and try to make a date,
like a dinner date coming up or a potential play date.
We really wanted to be more forward with
with our next conversation because we really liked them.
So we were getting our strategy together.
And so I was like, nope, nope.
Yes, definitely.
Nope, as we were going around the pool.
And so then we knew where we were going to spend our time
because we already had conversations with a lot of these people.
Yeah.

[22:28] [Unknown] And one of the notes was actually,

[22:34] [Phoebe] yes, after I settled up next to him at the bar,
I got my drink and he started talking to me.
And something about the what he was saying
was different than before.
And then all of a sudden we were kissing.
And then once we were kissing, oh man.
It was all over then.
It was all over.
Like, don’t mean kicked in.

[22:59] [Unknown] There was something about this.
That was just like, fire.
And I’m like, oh, yes.

[23:09] [Phoebe] My mind’s changed.
Yes, the number, this person just moved to the top of the list.

[23:14] [Ed] Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[23:15] [Phoebe] Yeah, so much fun.
So much fun.

[23:17] [Ed] We’ve definitely had situations like that where
just not expecting anything to happen that night.
And then the next thing you know who were like in a playroom or something’s happened.

[23:28] [Unknown] And yeah, all right.

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[24:35] [Phoebe] Which is why I don’t completely ever write somebody off.
Right.
I just use the nope, nope, yes, definitely.
Or be aware, like I said, we’re going to focus our energy

[24:46] [Unknown] because you can’t, you can’t pursue six,

[24:50] [Phoebe] six couples at the same time.

[24:52] [Unknown] You kind of have to, you can,

[24:55] [Phoebe] but you also have to lock in one if you’re going to get anywhere.

[25:01] [Ed] Unless you just say all six of you party in our room.
Come on, Dad.

[25:05] [Phoebe] That’s right.

[25:06] [Ed] And that has happened also.
That has happened.

[25:09] [Phoebe] So,
pleasure, paradox.

[25:13] [Ed] Part of this is this whole, you know,
addiction cycle that we’ve been talking about.
But then there’s this
constant bombardment of the plant,
pleasure centers in your brain.
So they’re just being hit over and over and over again.

[25:30] [Guest] Yeah.

[25:30] [Ed] Basically,
everyday life.
And this is probably the best example.
And this is why a lot of people have issues with social media.
A lot of psychologists or scientists are having issues with social media

[25:41] [Unknown] because that like dopamine scrolling,

[25:45] [Ed] you even hear people refer to it as that.

[25:47] [Phoebe] Yes.

[25:48] [Ed] Where you’re looking for the next funny, cute,
entertaining podcast that just happens to pop up on your screen
and you jump into the live room, right?
Like we’re doing this all day long.
Most people are.

[26:04] [Unknown] Yeah.

[26:05] [Phoebe] You, you, you do it way more than I do.

[26:07] [Unknown] I, I don’t on, on purpose.

[26:10] [Phoebe] Because it’s a time suck and I could be there forever.
And I have, I have so little time.
I need all my time.
Yeah.
So it’s, every day life
is has become this all time high.
And society has really been drugified.
The drugified is, is normal.

[26:30] [Unknown] Right.

[26:31] [Phoebe] And normal and healthy activities like sex,
eating, playing games, etc.
is, is, is even drugified.
It’s, it’s, yeah.

[26:43] [Ed] I mean, I mean, here’s some common like vanilla things that,
that we could talk about food.
They add things to food to make them more savory,
more tasty, more who knows what they’re putting in there.

[26:57] [Unknown] So you, you, you can’t eat just one, right?

[27:00] [Ed] Like they even have commercials talking about how addictive the food is.

[27:03] [Phoebe] The, the, the chip.
Remember, we watched that, that the documentary on the chip and the science behind the potato chip
and the special machine they had designed to create that crunching sensation

[27:15] [Ed] and how long it lasted and yeah, all of that.

[27:17] [Phoebe] And the flavor and how it dissipates on your palate
and how it moves around your mouth.
I mean, there is some serious, serious science behind a potato chip.

[27:27] [Ed] And then we can talk about just sex in general.
It’s, it’s not only available anywhere.
I mean, we’re all walking around with little porn machines in our pockets all the time.

[27:38] [Guest] Yeah.

[27:39] [Ed] But it’s on TV too.

[27:41] [Unknown] And if you, if you, and I’m glad that it’s becoming a little bit more normalized

[27:47] [Ed] and that people aren’t freaking out about sex as much as they used to.
But television shows now, right?

[27:53] [Unknown] It, like they’re full blown sex scenes.

[27:57] [Ed] And because most people watch TV on cable,
we’re talking like full-frontal nudity most of the time.
Oh, yeah.
Like the only thing they don’t show is penetrative sex.

[28:06] [Unknown] Right.
Yet, yet, game of thrones in a couple of seasons, you never know.

[28:13] [Ed] And they just get there.
But kind of peeling back even from the, the, the sex scenes
and that kind of aspect of it, think about how fashion has evolved
and how even like a half-time show at the Super Bowl
is very sexualized.

[28:34] [Unknown] Like everything about pretty much anything that we do in entertainment,

[28:39] [Ed] it’s like very sexily dressed.
They’re, you know, they’re gyrating their hips.
And, you know, this has been going on for a long time because
Elvis’s biggest problem was that he gyrated his hips
and it was very sexual and so people had huge problems with Elvis
Presley and his dance moves.
And it hasn’t changed, right?
Like, there’s still this constant
flooding of sexual imagery in pretty much everything we do.
I prefer that to then maybe the constant violent,
you know, stimulus that we’re getting all the time too,
but it does become kind of desensitized over time.

[29:27] [Phoebe] Yeah, and due to that constant dopamine high,
outside of our normal dopamine levels.

[29:34] [Ed] Right, that just woke up.
Yeah, yeah.

[29:37] [Phoebe] The brain really does try to regulate by seeking balance.

[29:41] [Unknown] Yeah.

[29:42] [Phoebe] And thus, reducing your dopamine production
because it’s trying to seek balance,
which is why the theory is a lot of people are kind of slipping into that
depressive state because your brain is constantly trying to regulate that.
And it becomes this chronic dopamine deficit where the spike is less and less,

[30:11] [Unknown] but you need more to get high.
Well, and part of that too is that the level that you’ve become accustomed to

[30:22] [Ed] is so disproportionately high that when you’re not at that level,
you feel like you’re wrong.

[30:31] [Phoebe] Yeah.

[30:31] [Unknown] And so that’s the real kind of danger part about that is,

[30:36] [Ed] I feel terrible when I’m not doom scrolling on my phone or when I’m not eating food or when
I’m not having sex.

[30:45] [Phoebe] Yeah.

[30:46] [Ed] That’s where it’s really bad because you’ve gotten so used to this,
weirdly high level of excitement all the time that everything,
everything at a normal level, which would have been like,
wow, this is, this was a great experience.
It has now, it’s not so great.

[31:05] [Phoebe] Yeah.
Yeah.
And so then why, right?
And four factors have increased.
The quantity, the access or availability, the potency, and the novelty.

[31:17] [Guest] Yeah.

[31:18] [Phoebe] And this all affects the dopamine center of the brain.

[31:22] [Unknown] Yes.

[31:23] [Phoebe] And so when you’re chasing a dopamine high and perhaps have that
ENM, ethical, non-monogamy, addictive behavior,
that dopamine is going to be extremely sensitive to novelty.

[31:39] [Unknown] Yep.

[31:39] [Phoebe] And I will say that secrecy that we used to have,
yeah, that was really exciting.

[31:48] [Ed] Oh, yeah, you feel like you’re getting away with something.
Yeah.
It’s the, oh, my God, if the neighbors only knew what we were doing.

[31:56] [Phoebe] If my parents knew, like the neighbors knew, like you feel like,
I remember the first time I had sex, I swear to God, I felt like I had a neon sign on my forehead.
And I felt like everyone was going to know because I looked different.
Right.
Like people just look at me and they’d go, you’re no longer urgent, right?
Right.

[32:18] [Unknown] And nobody fucking knew.

[32:19] [Ed] No.
But they do in the movies all the time.
They’re like, you’ve got a glow about you.
You’ve got laid.

[32:27] [Unknown] I know.

[32:30] [Phoebe] So the, it was the same thing when we would go out, right?
And then we were raising children at the time that we were doing this.
And they were teenagers and they were very aware of what was going on.
Like around the household.
Right.

[32:47] [Ed] Not specifically the swinging.

[32:49] [Phoebe] But, but they were very keen on, on noticing how patterns started to change.

[32:54] [Ed] No, there’s these little bastards.

[32:56] [Phoebe] They saw everything where you go and what you’re doing.
Why are you just like that?
How come you’re wearing a long coat?
It’s, it’s really hot outside.
What’s in the bag?
Why are you taking a bag?

[33:04] [Unknown] Like, oh my God, all the questions.

[33:07] [Phoebe] And so we, once the questions, we realized they were much smarter than we thought they were.
I’d start sneaking the bag into the trunk, into the car.
Like hours before.
So they didn’t see us leaving with it.
Right.

[33:21] [Unknown] And, and then I’d have to, and I wouldn’t wear the coat.

[33:24] [Phoebe] And I’d change in the car.
I wear something completely different.
Right.

[33:30] [Unknown] Oh my gosh, it was, it was annoying, but that was exciting.

[33:35] [Phoebe] Because we were like, can you get away with something?
We’re like, we’re like, we’re done, done, done, done.

[33:39] [Ed] We had a secret.
We were part of this secret.
I know.
Swing or something.

[33:43] [Phoebe] Getting all like super charged.
Just by thinking about it.
I guess it was exciting.
And now we’re out.
And it’s not exciting anymore.

[33:52] [Ed] So what are the other aspects that I think a lot of people get hooked on
are swarovacations.

[33:57] [Guest] And, yes.

[33:58] [Unknown] You know, depending on, we’ll just pick on them, the resorts.

[34:04] [Ed] They’re all inclusive.
Alcohol is freely flowing.
There’s, there’s like a critical mass of naked people running around doing naughty secret things.
So, and, and then there’s pool games, right?
Yes.

[34:19] [Phoebe] Dance party.

[34:20] [Ed] It’s like the best vacation ever.

[34:22] [Phoebe] Oh, yeah.

[34:23] [Ed] Because you get to be naked with other people.

[34:25] [Phoebe] And theme nights and you get to shop for the theme nights ahead of time,
which adds to the excitement, I know.

[34:31] [Ed] Some people get really hooked on that.
And we have heard, I don’t know how they afford it,
but obviously in a totally different tax bracket than we are.
But going to like hedonism multiple times a year or desire,

[34:43] [Unknown] multiple times a year, that’s freaking great.

[34:47] [Ed] But are they chasing that, like, that high?
Are they trying to get back to that feeling of where they were before?
And is, and is that what that’s about?
I mean, some of it’s the relationships, too.

[35:00] [Phoebe] Yeah.
And not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Me not.

[35:04] [Ed] Other than we can’t go, but yeah, besides that.

[35:08] [Phoebe] And a lot of people will, I’m sure they,
well, I’d like to think that they budget for it.
That’s the accountant in me thinking that they’re budgeting for that.
But a lot of people can’t play in their town.
And so that’s what they look forward to twice a year,
because they have to be out of the country,
or out of their state to do that.

[35:28] [Guest] Right.

[35:30] [Phoebe] So there are also positive benefits to the relationship,
where you’re justifying that it’s a good thing.
Then there’s that pleasure seeking where your,
you know, maybe the next event’s going to be bigger, better.
And we did that, too.

[35:53] [Ed] Right.

[35:54] [Phoebe] Because the events that we were going to in the beginning were just,
oh my god.

[35:59] [Ed] They’re a little snoozy.

[36:01] [Phoebe] They were so snoozy.

[36:03] [Ed] We had a couple that were really good,
which started us off.
Yeah.
And then there was like this weird lull in the middle.

[36:09] [Phoebe] Yeah.

[36:11] [Ed] Like the first six months or a year.

[36:12] [Unknown] Honestly, I think because we were for me,

[36:19] [Phoebe] I was so desirous of trying to figure out,
you know, what’s going on,
or why everyone else seemed to have it figured out,
or how everyone else is doing it,
or what’s the secret sauce that we just kept going,
because we kept feeling like we were just failing at it.

[36:36] [Ed] Yeah.

[36:37] [Phoebe] Just like we’re like,

[36:38] [Ed] we’re going to fake it till we make it.

[36:40] [Phoebe] Yeah.
And so we give ourselves homework.
We’re like, we didn’t talk to anybody again.
Oh my god.
We’re such dorks.
And they were like, okay, well, we got to give ourselves homework.
So this time, we’re going to talk to at least one couple.

[36:57] [Unknown] And then so we would be line it over to a couple.

[37:00] [Phoebe] And then we increased it to three couples every every event.
Got to talk to at least three couples every event.

[37:06] [Unknown] And then eventually we got used to it.

[37:09] [Phoebe] And we got used to seeing some of the same faces.
And then we started to feel comfortable in the community.
But it took a while.
I mean, it took a long time.
It was so awkward.
And it was infuriating because here we are in our 40s doing this.
I’m starting over.
I’m starting over.
I’m like, I feel like a freaking teenager.
I’m like, just like what?

[37:29] [Ed] It was awkward.
Why?

[37:31] [Phoebe] I hate this awkwardness.
What am I doing?
How do we talk to people now?
It was just, it was so annoying.

[37:42] [Unknown] Then, did you want to say something?

[37:45] [Phoebe] I know I’m talking a lot.

[37:47] [Ed] No, no, this is good.
I remember those early years with some like,
if I had known then what I know now,
maybe we wouldn’t have gone to those parties.
Maybe we would have just switched up parties.
But at the time, that was all that we knew that was going on.
But yeah, yeah.
Okay, so here’s Ken of Ken comments.
Yeah.

[38:13] [Phoebe] So he did Hido for the first time
three years ago.
And that is nuts.
It’s like the Jedi final exam for swingers.
Non-stop play.
It’s awesome.
But once a year is enough, even if the money is no object.

[38:30] [Ed] Yeah.
And for those who have not been to hedonism,
the comparison that I’ve heard between desire and hedonism,
because we haven’t been to desire,
but we haven’t been to Hido is,
hedonism is like that party that’s on 11 all the time.
Like, it’s the hip play.
So if you really want to hook up with other couples,
like Hido is the place to go.
And desire is a little bit more like,
slow to warm up and a little bit more on the,
the whining and dining aspect,
unless on the hedonism of the whole thing.

[39:01] [Phoebe] Right.
And hedonism has a lot of groups that go.
So if you can go with a group that fits your
preference, then that’s even more fun.
Right.
And even more chance for trouble.
I will say you, you can step away from the go go go there as well.
There are parts of that resort that are nice and quiet.
And you can just rest and recharge and do your own thing.
Take it down day.
That’s super easy to do there.
And I did plenty of that because I don’t always
like being in the fray.
But if you want to be in the fray 24-7, absolutely.

[39:45] [Ed] Yeah.
And actually, this is a good, good thing.
I don’t even think we put it in the outline.
But we did talk about it in, oh no, it’s in here.
It towards the seeking the balance.
But we haven’t talked about it yet.

[39:57] [Unknown] And that’s this sense of FOMO.

[39:59] [Ed] And that’s this fear of missing out.

[40:01] [Unknown] Oh, yeah.

[40:02] [Ed] It’s hedonism certainly kicks up FOMO.
Because even if you’re on the,
I don’t even think they call this anymore.
They used to call it the crude side and the nude side.

[40:12] [Phoebe] Yeah, I think they repranded that.

[40:13] [Ed] Yeah, I think they got rid of it.
Because I think they felt like they were leaving people out
or made them feel bad because they were on the non-party side of the island.
But let’s say you do decide to go take a nap or you do decide to take it down or not.
Because you were up all night and you were drinking and dancing and doing all the fun stuff.
You hear the party going on.
Or you see it, you know, you see all the people going there.
And you like, you’re like, oh man, I’m missing out.
There’s got to be, there’s something great going on right now.
And I’m missing it.
So one of the other addictive things is you have this fear of missing out on that next experience.
Or that that couple that’s, you know, potentially going to get away.
That you got to get them all, it’s good.
Because otherwise you’re going to miss out.
And they’re going to be gone.
And we definitely felt that a number of times.

[41:11] [Phoebe] Yeah, and I will feel FOMO very strongly when one of our, our couple friends is going on.
One of those, a fun trip.

[41:20] [Unknown] And I’m like, oh, dang it.

[41:22] [Phoebe] I can’t go or, you know, I really want to go.
But I can’t and then they’re there.

[41:28] [Unknown] And I’m like, text me pictures.

[41:31] [Phoebe] Keep me up to date.
Right.
Because I have to live by, you know, through them.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, I know.
I don’t know why that affects me so much.
Usually it affects me when, when I, when I’m not having enough fun in my own life.
If my, if my life, my pie of life has gotten a little out of balance.
And I need to take more time for me.
Right.
That’s usually when I feel FOMO more because I’m, I’m, I’m missing more of just that.

[42:02] [Ed] Escape.

[42:03] [Phoebe] Yeah.

[42:04] [Ed] Yeah.

[42:05] [Phoebe] The escape of the grind, the day in and day out.
Grind of things.

[42:09] [Ed] Help me about it.

[42:11] [Phoebe] Part of my, my journey in the lifestyle was when, when we came out with our faces.
Right.
It felt like this imposter syndrome.
Because we were getting compliments.
Oh, my God.
I love your podcast.
We’re like, we’re not really anybody.
We’re just, we just a kind of microphone.
We just do this thing.
Right.
But it was, it was great because we got good feedback,
which kept us motivated.
But then it was weird because it was like this weird dichotomy.
And, and then the novelty of, of kind of of that war off.

[42:59] [Unknown] And I’m not sure really where I’m going with this.

[43:06] [Phoebe] My outline is sucking right now at this point.

[43:11] [Ed] I’ll pitch in a little bit here because I think we definitely got to a point where
the newness, the excitement that kind of the novelty of being secret had, had gone away,
right?
Because we’d come out.

[43:23] [Phoebe] Yes. So the secrecy had gone away.

[43:25] [Ed] So we lost a little bit of that.

[43:27] [Phoebe] Yes.

[43:28] [Ed] Dove for me and Rush.
But then there was also a weird thing that happened right around that time where we decided
that we were going to be, we were going to treat it more like a business.
The podcast.
The podcast.
Right.
And because of that, it became a lot more serious.
And we wanted to get more listeners.
And we wanted to like get followers on social media and do that whole thing.

[43:49] [Phoebe] Well, and because we wanted to reach more people because.
Exactly.
Being a podcaster and advertising a podcast is extremely difficult.
A lot of people don’t even know what a podcast is right now.
So you have to advertise it.
And I hate advertising.

[44:10] [Ed] Well, yeah.

[44:10] [Unknown] And that that became, I think, the biggest kind of piece of imposter syndrome for us was.

[44:17] [Ed] It felt uncomfortable to market and to push the podcast because we did it for fun.
We did it to help other people and to communicate, you know, all of these
crash and birth scenarios that we’d been through and the awkward kind of teenage years of
starting as a swing or so to speak.
And in once we’d kind of like got that train rolling, it kind of got away from us a little bit.
And I think that’s where the novelty of the of the whole thing for us had kind of worn off.
And and that’s where we’ve tried to like reinvent and change the podcast so that it was fun
and novel and interesting for us again.

[45:03] [Phoebe] Yeah. And then well, we we are in year like 11 or 12 now and the novelty of swinging has
dissipated.

[45:15] [Ed] Yeah, yeah, it’s not it’s not as new and exciting as it used to be for us for sure.
Here’s why we sail on Virgin.
It’s adults only.
No kids screaming at breakfast.
No family buffet lines.
Just champagne at noon.
Late night pool parties and people who actually want to be there.
The vibe.
Think boutique hotel that happens to float.
Tattoo parlors, drag brunch, restaurants you’d actually pay for on land.
Plus when you’re looking to connect with other couples who know how to have fun,
let’s just say Virgin attracts a very specific type of adventurous.
No wonder bread cruisers here, just your people.

[46:09] [Phoebe] Right. And so it’s the focus now has changed for us.

[46:15] [Unknown] The focus really is not so much on the sex sex aspect of it.

[46:24] [Phoebe] Right. It’s more focused on the community and building those relationships and having
great fun with people.
Conversations may be traveling with them.
We’ve got friends that we travel with sometimes.
And it’s really nice because you can be very open with those individuals
and you feel more complete.
Right.
You’re not hiding anything.
Nothing’s a secret.

[46:53] [Unknown] You just it’s all out there and it’s very it’s very freeing.

[46:58] [Phoebe] It’s it’s comfortable.
Yeah.
So it’s nice to be able to do that.
So it’s it’s interesting how how it’s shifted over time.
Now will we
will we make you know, will it shift again?
I’m sure it will.

[47:15] [Ed] Well, we just heard about a fantastic party that had us super excited and tons of
phomo just hit us.

[47:21] [Unknown] So no, holy crap.

[47:23] [Ed] Okay, so let’s talk.
We want to go.

[47:26] [Phoebe] So we’re in the swing or a mastermind group.
It’s a bunch of promoters getting together and event coordinators and people in the
industry and we all support one another and share ideas.

[47:36] [Unknown] So what are the promoters in there?

[47:39] [Phoebe] Does a event every summer up to what 1800 people?

[47:45] [Ed] Yeah, he’s trying to get he thinks they’re going to be up to 1800 this year in Oklahoma

[47:51] [Phoebe] on 120 acres of land.
He’s got security.
He’s got food trucks DJs vendors.
Bathrooms showers.
Hi air balloons.
Hot air balloons.
You could go naked in a hot air balloon.
Like what is not to love about sex in a hot air balloon?
I will say it is very
dainn.
Hot air balloons can be pretty dangerous.
I’ve ridden in one.
The landings are pretty rough.
So if you’re naked,
probably not.
Yeah.
Wear a cup.

[48:23] [Ed] Bring some support.
Don’t break it on the basket.

[48:25] [Phoebe] Yeah, don’t.
No.
Yes.
And so it’s camping.
So you’re bringing RV,
bring your tent, whatever you want to stay in.
And I think it’s only for three days, maybe four.

[48:39] [Ed] Yeah, I didn’t get all the details on it.

[48:41] [Unknown] But just how many people were going to be there

[48:45] [Ed] and the kinds of fun things that they were doing.
Some of the contests and fun activities that he was describing.
It just, it just sounds like a hoot.

[48:56] [Unknown] Yeah, he kind of described it like kind of like a burner event,

[49:00] [Phoebe] like burning man with swinging.
And it’s kind of a mashup.

[49:05] [Ed] Yeah.
So.
Yeah, those kinds of experiences,
which are just like sensory, super exciting.
Now you can, you can see how
this kind of fits in with this episode, right?

[49:19] [Phoebe] Yeah.

[49:19] [Ed] I’m hearing all of these really exciting,
thrilling things going on.
Novel things that I’ve never tried before,
like having sex and a hot air balloon.
Never done that before, right?
Absolutely.
Now it is on my bucket list,
which is one of those things where it’s like,
damn, I didn’t even know that was a thing.
And now I have to do it.
Right?
Oh my God.

[49:40] [Phoebe] I know.
And the theme is going to be like,
summer of love, so 60s flower power.
All kinds of fun stuff.
So so at night, we’re like, right before the episode, we’re like,

[49:53] [Unknown] oh, oh my God.

[49:54] [Phoebe] Maybe we should try and make this event happen.
You know, maybe we could get some cheap tickets to Oklahoma.
Right.
We’ll fly down there.
And then what was my second thought?
My very second thought was,
I’m not going to get any sleep.

[50:10] [Ed] Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is a whole other thing.

[50:13] [Phoebe] Because we’re going to be in a tent.
I’m not going to get any sleep.
Hotel, there are hotels nearby,
and they have shuttles that will shuttle you back
and forth.
Maybe that’s what we do.

[50:29] [Ed] Or we like

[50:32] [Phoebe] rent a truck for something.

[50:35] [Ed] When we sleep in the back and we take our new tent thing.
But still, if there’s a big party going on around,
the FOMO kicks in really hard when you hear that.
Going on.
So I know, well, we’ll discuss that.

[50:50] [Phoebe] Yeah.
I don’t know.
See, see, here’s, here’s, here are the real life,
discussions of what we’re talking about.
Because now I’m thinking, maybe I do want to go
with a hotel route because I can separate myself
from the constant stimulus,
because I do need my downtime.

[51:06] [Guest] Right.

[51:07] [Unknown] Because I get too overstimulated.

[51:10] [Phoebe] So I have to usaw.
And then I can go and jump back in.
So maybe the hotel would be great.
Then I come back.

[51:18] [Ed] We’ll see.

[51:19] [Unknown] We’ll see.

[51:21] [Phoebe] But you, you do miss a lot of connections
when you kind of remove
and come back and you remove yourself.

[51:28] [Ed] Yeah, we’ve definitely experienced that before.

[51:32] [Phoebe] Nice being immersed.

[51:34] [Ed] Yes.

[51:35] [Phoebe] I know.
So, so we’ll see.
We will see a new thing we haven’t tried yet.
So that, that brings us to seeking balance.
Yes.
Sinking balance to the pleasure paradox.
Honesty, you know, if you, if you feel like you have an addiction to it
in your finances are running, running really low
because you’re, you’re out every weekend.

[52:03] [Ed] You’ve been to Heo four times this year.

[52:05] [Phoebe] Right.
You know, maybe you have some honesty towards that.
Spread out the fun.
Right.
Try to consciously spread that out.

[52:13] [Unknown] Make sure your pie is more balanced.

[52:17] [Phoebe] The inner team and pie is balanced.
You’ve got vanilla life.

[52:21] [Ed] Do some vanilla travel along with your swing or travel.
Right.
Don’t make it all fun.

[52:27] [Phoebe] Yes.

[52:27] [Ed] I mean, vacation should be fun too, but you know,

[52:29] [Unknown] not that kind of fun.
And then take breaks.

[52:34] [Phoebe] If you need to, remember that normal is okay.

[52:38] [Unknown] You know, your lifestyle versus hobby.
Right.

[52:42] [Phoebe] We did an episode on that last week, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
We kind of do it.
We, we, we think that we’ve been, we’ve done both.
And the beginning was more of a hobby.
We just kind of dabbled.
You do, do, do, right?
And then it became more of something
that was all the time.
Everything was that focus.
And now we’re probably more in the hobby aspect of it.
It’s a little different
because this has become more of a business.

[53:11] [Unknown] Right.

[53:12] [Phoebe] For us, so it’s part of our, it’s our hard time job.
Basically, then we don’t get paid for.

[53:19] [Ed] Yeah, because it requires a great deal of work.
Yeah.
And, and I think one of the other aspects
that, and this plays into the social media
and a lot of the other stuff that we were talking about.
But I think it also applies in the lifestyle.
And that’s don’t compare.
So someone isn’t having more fun than you.
Yeah.
And, and trying to have that comparison.
And this gets really hard.
Especially when you start talking about sex.

[53:42] [Unknown] And the level of, you know, how many orgasms

[53:46] [Ed] she’s having versus how much your habits,

[53:48] [Phoebe] that’s happening.
Yeah.
He’s doing better.
John of this and that or whatever.
They’re having more fun.

[53:54] [Ed] They’ve been having more fun with this other ring.

[53:56] [Phoebe] Yeah, where they’ve got it all figured out.
And we don’t have it figured out.
I don’t understand what’s wrong.

[54:01] [Unknown] That was always my, my thing.
I was like, well, why don’t we have it?

[54:06] [Phoebe] Why don’t we?
Why don’t we have this figured out?

[54:08] [Unknown] Why is it so because it’s hard?

[54:11] [Ed] Because it’s life.
It’s real life.
And there’s feelings and there’s stuff going on.
And it’s messy and you’re, you’re coordinating.
And I was going to say, this honesty towards addiction
really comes down to kind of mindfulness and introspection.
And I think it’s really important to kind of take a step back
from things sometimes and really think about,
why am I having the feelings that I’m having?
Or why do I feel compelled to always find the next event?

[54:40] [Guest] Yeah.

[54:42] [Ed] You know, there’s some, there’s some health,
mental health in taking a step back from things, as you said,
and really reassessing occasionally and having that
like healthy perspective.

[54:57] [Phoebe] And we did, I put the brakes on at one point
and we took about an eight month break.

[55:03] [Ed] Sure, yeah.

[55:04] [Phoebe] Because I was just so tired of trying to figure out
the swinging lifestyle and figure out dating
and figuring out huffles and figuring out protocol.
And there’s just so many things to figure out
that it just, I just, my brain was full.
Right.
And then I just needed to, to not think about it.

[55:35] [Ed] Hey there, podcast listeners.
You’ve been tuning into our episodes.
But have you ever wondered about the steamy details of our adventures
or maybe hungry for some sultry erotic stories?

[55:47] [Phoebe] Well, guess what?
We’ve got something special just for you.
Our exclusive Patreon page.
It’s like a VIP pass to the saucy or side of our world.

[55:58] [Ed] So if you’re ready for an exclusive behind the mic experience,
head over to our Patreon page now.
Trust us, this is where the magic happens.

[56:08] [Phoebe] See you there, patrons.

[56:16] [Ed] So what are, what are some ways that people can kind of like
recenter themselves or ground themselves
that would be helpful for this to kind of take,
take a step back from the phones and the events and the parties
and all of the dopamine stuff that’s going on?

[56:37] [Phoebe] I would say just step away from the lifestyle for a little bit.
Yoga walking exercises always been my go-to.
Yeah.
It really, really does help.
Meditation if that’s what you’re into.

[56:51] [Ed] Going backpacking out in the woods and relaxing and just
not having stuff around.
And you know when you’re out backpacking,
you can’t be on your phones.
You can’t be checking for a bench.
You can’t be seeing how well the last episode did
like all of that kind of stuff that we that I get caught up in.

[57:10] [Phoebe] Yeah.
I wouldn’t even say go to a meet and greet unless you’re
immune to phomo because you’re not a meet and greet.
You’re going to find someone that’s going to some new party
that you hadn’t heard about and you’d be like,
what?
I want to know.
Or some new telegram chat that you’re not in.
And it’s like, oh my god.
Oh yeah.
It feels so left out because I’m not in that telegram chat.

[57:32] [Unknown] And then yeah, it’s torture.

[57:36] [Phoebe] So just wait it out.
You know, wait, wait out this dopamine.
I let your body kind of settle back down.
And your brain will naturally strive to reach

[57:50] [Unknown] that meostasis.

[57:53] [Ed] Yeah.
And kind of a bonus tip for this.
And this isn’t in the episode,
but it kind of plays on a lot of this stuff.
And that’s pace yourself, right?
Yeah.

[58:01] [Unknown] If you’re going at it non-stop to the point

[58:05] [Ed] where you’re probably going to burn out,
maybe just take a go to a few less events.
Maybe not go to every meet and greet that happens to come up.
Give yourself that break and kind of meter it out a little bit
so that you can kind of have high moments.
And then you can kind of,
oh yeah, we had such a good time last weekend.
It was so much fun.
Yeah.
Live in those feelings for a little bit.
And the memory of it,
instead of trying to get the next one going

[58:35] [Unknown] and take it off again.

[58:37] [Phoebe] Yeah.
And guaranteed, you know, when people are,
they tell you, oh, you know, oh yeah,
we have like, we have like 20 friends
and we all travel together and blah, blah, blah.
And you’re like, what?
I’m like, yeah, wish I had that.
I call bullshit.
Just right.
It’s dis bullshit.
It’s not true.
Travel is to the local club.
And it’s two friends.
Like, it’s not real.
Like, 100%.
So don’t get all wound up like I used to
because I quickly figured out
that their description
is not even close to reality.
Right.
Right.

[59:22] [Ed] Well, you know, you’ve had five drinks
in a night.
Everybody’s the hottest people you’ve ever had at a party.
I mean, just, it just happens.

[59:29] [Phoebe] I know.

[59:32] [Ed] Can, can talks about in here.
We’ll address some questions here.
Yeah, Oklahoma.
I know that’s exactly what I said.
I was like, holy crap.
That’s like in the middle of.
I know.
Super conservative.

[59:45] [Phoebe] I know.

[59:45] [Ed] South, so to speak.

[59:47] [Phoebe] I know.

[59:48] [Ed] I guess it’s the dirty south of its
in Texas area.
But anyway.
And yeah, I, I’m kind of convinced with
as many Mormons whingers that we’ve run across
in the lifestyle in the 10 years,
that there’s some, the really repressed people
are, they come out hard.

[01:00:05] [Unknown] Like, yeah, they are the,

[01:00:07] [Ed] they are the hard partiers and
apparently swinging and they have like 1800 people
come out of the woodwork.
Just for that event.
And I absolutely like your strategy,
Ken, for, you know,

[01:00:23] [Unknown] two days, have a blast.

[01:00:26] [Ed] Let it all hang out.
And then you’re like,
can’t do that all the time.

[01:00:30] [Unknown] Right.

[01:00:31] [Ed] I mean, I need a couple days to rest
and put some ointment on things
because I’m a little sore.
I know.
We’ve had though, we’ve had those parties before.
And yeah.
And then yeah, it does.
It puts, kind of puts things in a little
perspective for you because you’re like,
get too old for this.
Get too old for this shit.

[01:00:53] [Phoebe] Yeah, yeah.
So, yeah, dopamine is the real thing.
It’s, I never really
looked at that chemical,
the natural chemical response of the body
and how it really does
walk with your mind.
What happened?
It happens automatically.
So is that even something you,

[01:01:14] [Ed] you have to think about?
It’s just, it just happens to you.

[01:01:18] [Phoebe] I know.
And this is why, you know,
doctors are so careful when they prescribe
any kind of mood altering drug
because it can have great impacts.
They tend to
to step you up carefully
and step you down carefully
because of the way it alters your
mood in your mind.
And right.

[01:01:42] [Unknown] I mean, it’s no joke.

[01:01:44] [Ed] No, and if you think about that,

[01:01:47] [Unknown] you’ve got this, you know,

[01:01:48] [Ed] normalized level of maybe dopamine.
And then you go off of your meds
and then you drop to an abnormal under low.
And that’s why things are,
there’s actually another strategy
that happens with that too.
But because I’m not a therapist
or a psychologist or a doctor,
we just say the fancy doctorate words
on a podcast,
we recommend a group
that deals with this kind of stuff.
And if you want to talk to a coach
or a counselor about this,
we highly recommend it.
We absolutely believe in
couples therapy and, you know,
swing your therapist and all of that stuff.
We’ll put a link to a group
called expansive connection
at the bottom of this episode
in the show notes.
And reach out to them.
Talk to them about their services.
We’ve had them on our episodes before.
We’ve done interviews with them.
And we highly recommend
seeking professional help.
If you need somebody to talk to.

[01:02:58] [Phoebe] And they’re, they practice the lifestyle.
They’re, they’re in the lifestyle
in some form, shape or form.
Some of them are polyamorous.
Some, they have a staff of, I think,
four people, one gentleman,
I think three women.
And yeah, they’re, they’re really great.
Yeah, good people.
Really great resource.
And I love, I love that they’re available
to this community.

[01:03:23] [Ed] Absolutely.
Thanks, everyone.
Thanks everyone for tuning in.
We appreciate you joining our little
Wednesday night party.
Don’t forget your homework.
Tell a friend about our show.
And if you want, leave a review
and definitely leave a comment.
Even if it’s just an emoji
and I’ll steal this from somebody else.
And if you know who it is,
you can also leave that in a comment
because, you know, engagement.
You can leave us a voicemail
at 916-538-0482
or you can contact us at SwingerUniversity.com.
Well, thank you all for tuning in.
And as we say,

[01:04:06] [Unknown] keep learning, keep growing,

[01:04:08] [Ed] and keep it sexy.
And we’ll talk to you guys next time.
And if you want to catch next week’s episode,
you do have to join Patreon
because we have to keep balance in our life
and every other Wednesday
is the public episode.
But if you want to hear the behind the scenes
and the stuff that’s going on in our private lives,
stuff that we don’t talk about in the main episode,

[01:04:32] [Unknown] you don’t have to check us out on Patreon.
So until next time, ciao, ciao.
Oh, one last thing before you go.

[01:04:57] [Ed] If this episode helped you in any way,
the single best thing you can do to support the show
is leaving a rating and review.
It takes 60 seconds
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And we’ve made it easy.
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Thank you for being part of this community.
We’ll see you again soon.