The One Chemical Behind Chocolate, Swinging, and Addiction

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And so that’s this powerful cocktail that

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hits us like cocaine.

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“Oh, I want a little piece of chocolate.”

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Oh, well now your

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dopamine levels just went up 55%.

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that’s 1000% over your

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baseline dopamine level.

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Okay, so I felt it bigly.

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Oh boy…

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go, God, it feels like,

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like I’m a teenager again.

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The spike is less and less,

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but you need more to get high.

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like having sex in a hot air balloon.

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Never done that before.

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Welcome to Swinger University. I’m Ed.

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And I’m Phoebe.

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Today is going to be really fascinating

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because we dive into NRE, or New

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Relationship Energy.

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We talk about some novelty aspects of the

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lifestyle and how that

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really kind of triggers

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all of the pleasure

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centers in your brain.

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And we’re going to talk about–

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It creates a pleasure paradox.

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Yeah. We’re going to talk about chasing

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dopamine and, of course,

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the whole addictive aspect

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of ethical non-monogamy. So it’s going to

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be fun. We’re going to

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have a good time with

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it.

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Let’s talk about this a little bit. We’ve

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talked about New

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Relationship Energy before

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from the aspect of you and single males,

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a hot wife aspect of it.

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Right. And did you want me to elaborate?

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Sure. Let’s talk a little bit about

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single males or your hot wife experience.

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Well, let’s go into a little bit first

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and then I’ll provide that as an example.

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Okay. I was excited to talk about you.

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I know. I know. So with the New

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Relationship Energy

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scientific chemical thing that goes

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on with all of us, you’ve got your

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dopamine, your

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serotonin, your norepinephrine.

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Norepinephrine.

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Norepinephrine.

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Oh, wow. Now you got me all tongue-eyed.

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Norepinephrine.

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That’s it.

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I can’t look at your phonetics.

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Norepinephrine. And then that equals

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desire and attraction.

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And then the oxytocin

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creates the bonding.

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Right.

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And so that’s this powerful cocktail that

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And so that’s this powerful cocktail that

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hits us like cocaine.

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Yeah.

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And there’s a book I was reading called

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Dopamine Nation by Anna

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Lembke. She’s a MD. And she

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She had some really

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fascinating data in this book.

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I highly recommend it.

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This was fascinating to me.

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I wanna call this out.

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Let’s just say your, well,

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your dopamine levels

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are at your base level.

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Right. Right, normally.

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Let’s just talk about normal baseline.

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You wake up in the morning and

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you’ve had your cup of coffee

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and you’re at your

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normal level of whatever.

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What is that?

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You’re just normal baseline, right?

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So after you had your cup

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of coffee, you’re just like,

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“Oh, I want a little piece of chocolate.”

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Oh, well now your

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dopamine levels just went up 55%.

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55% just from a piece of chocolate.

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Now let’s say, oh, come by 10 o’clock,

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you’re feeling a little frisky.

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You work with your

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partner at home and you’re like,

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“I want a little,” or

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maybe it’s lunchtime

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and you’re like, “I want a little nooner.

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I want you to break.”

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Well, now your dopamine just went up 100%

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over your baseline. Right.

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Fascinating, I didn’t know this.

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Now after your little

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rendezvous between the sheets,

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you’re like, “Oh, I could really use a

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cigarette right now.

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That was just fabulous.”

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Oh, that’s 150% over your baseline.

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Right.

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Now what I don’t know is, is it additive?

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Does the chocolate with

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the sex with the cigarette

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like make it 300% over?

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Right. I mean,

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is it a cumulative?

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Maybe could be.

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I don’t know.

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That’s a very good question.

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At a party, let’s

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just say you’re a smoker,

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you go out, you have a smoke,

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then you come back in and you’re into

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the white fluffy stuff called snow.

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The snow is gonna add an extra 225%

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over your normal baseline.

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So now you have the

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150 with the nicotine,

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you’ve had your 225,

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now you’re a while

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into 500 or so percent.

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Right.

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I think that was correct math, maybe not.

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Might not quite that close.

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If you wanna take it up even more

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and you’re into ephedamines,

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that’s 1000% over your

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baseline dopamine level.

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Which is crazy.

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Right, and that really kind of nails

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why some people get addicted to the drugs

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because it is such a,

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it’s a brain high, right?

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Like it’s releasing all of

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these feel good chemicals

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up in your brain.

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Now, of course, we don’t

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mention the side effects

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of like cocaine, which is

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severe wallet anxiety and loss.

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(laughing) And when you don’t

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talk about amphetamine,

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which is loss of

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dental work and, you know.

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Is that the scratching of the face

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or is that something else?

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Yeah, it’ll happen with that too, right?

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So severe facial dismemberment,

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it typically happens

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with methamphetamines.

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So dopamine can hit pretty darn hard

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and it can last, I

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mean, you as a swinger,

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you could be doing this

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for six months or five years.

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I mean, going at it, it

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could be pretty darn steady.

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And as you go, depending on

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how often you’re doing things

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and when you’re doing them,

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now for how long you’re doing them,

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the length could vary.

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You’ve got the people,

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the events, the resorts,

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and the types of relationships

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that are all gonna be different factors

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for your dopamine high.

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Right, so here’s some

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factors that we can talk about.

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So one of the things

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that you can think about

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is if you live in an area

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that has maybe a lifestyle club

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or you could go every week,

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like every Saturday

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night, that’s your thing.

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That means Saturday night,

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you’re guaranteed to

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see stuff that’s going to

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increase that dopamine level in your head

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and you’re signed up for it.

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So if you’ve got that need, that

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addiction to that feeling

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every week, every week you’re there.

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And then you start to wonder,

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like, how long can you sustain that?

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How long does it, can you keep that up?

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So it’s a trick. Yeah.

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And I think later in the episode,

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I’m not sure if I

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talk about it down there,

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but I probably do, but I

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was starting to think about

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when there’s a certain

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amount of that addiction

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comes in where you’ve gone to that club

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and you’ve seen and

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felt and had an experience

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and now you bring that home

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and now it’s in your brain.

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And so now- Yeah, the memory, the sounds.

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Now, when you think about it,

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it instantly triggers that same response.

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And with true addiction,

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all you have to do is think about it.

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Correct. And you want it,

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which is why the step programs are so

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important for addicts

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because you really do have to

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change your habits drastically.

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You have to change

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your, you have to beef up

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your support system,

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change all your friends,

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remove yourself from those environments

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because you’re still gonna have your,

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and reach out to your sponsor

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because when you think about it,

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it actually, your body

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starts to feel the craving

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or feel that need because of the,

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the brain is powerful.

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It’s the brain drugs, the chemicals.

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The chemical drugs, yeah.

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So let’s talk about this.

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Wait, whoa, am I gonna

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talk about the single male?

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Well, that’s what I was gonna get into.

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Oh, okay.

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We’ve talked about the chemical aspect,

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but we haven’t really talked about,

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how does that apply to

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new relationship energy?

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Like what is that? Yes, yes.

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Okay, so I felt it bigly.

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Okay, so I felt it bigly.

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Oh boy, you went there.

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Oh boy, you went there.

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I did go there.

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When the single male

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was giving me attention,

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it was attention from somebody else.

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It was attention in the

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text message initially

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and usually text messages

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don’t do anything for me

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but this guy had a way with words

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and he was very talented with his words

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and we met at a bar, all three of us.

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We hadn’t had a, you know, it was great.

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And then we set up a date.

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And then when he came over,

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the interaction was incredible.

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It was lovely.

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We had a great time.

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It was a lot of fun.

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But that was a different kind of high

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than what we have experienced with a

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couple or in an orgy.

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And I found myself thinking

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while I was going on walks,

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listening to other podcasts,

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I found myself just my

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mind kind of wandering

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and thinking about that interaction.

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And it bothered me a bit

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because I didn’t want that to,

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I didn’t want to be

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thinking about it a lot.

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It started to consume my thoughts,

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I felt a little bit more

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during the day than I wanted to.

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And that made me uncomfortable.

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And I knew that was the chemical reaction

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still happening in my body.

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And it does take probably

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a good three to five days

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for that to dissipate.

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So I just waited it out and

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I talked with you about it.

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And I said, look, this is

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making me uncomfortable.

[00:10:52:08 – 00:10:52:28]
Right.

[00:10:52:28 – 00:10:54:11]
I don’t know what to

[00:10:54:11 – 00:10:55:04]
do with these feelings.

[00:10:55:04 – 00:10:55:24]
I don’t know what to

[00:10:55:24 – 00:10:56:25]
do with these feelings.

[00:10:56:25 – 00:10:59:07]
I know they’re not real

[00:10:59:07 – 00:11:00:26]
feelings, they’re valid feelings,

[00:11:00:26 – 00:11:01:21]
but they’re not

[00:11:01:21 – 00:11:04:04]
feelings that are gonna make me

[00:11:04:04 – 00:11:08:08]
change or move my mind

[00:11:08:08 – 00:11:09:25]
on like our connection.

[00:11:09:25 – 00:11:16:23]
But it was oddly weird to

[00:11:16:23 – 00:11:18:04]
kind of stand outside my mind

[00:11:18:04 – 00:11:20:00]
and look at myself and

[00:11:20:00 – 00:11:20:15]
go, God, it feels like,

[00:11:20:15 – 00:11:22:15]
go, God, it feels like,

[00:11:22:15 – 00:11:24:09]
like I’m a teenager again.

[00:11:24:09 – 00:11:26:15]
It’s just so powerful.

[00:11:26:15 – 00:11:28:18]
It was bizarre.

[00:11:28:18 – 00:11:29:28]
Yeah, yeah.

[00:11:29:28 – 00:11:33:12]
The triggering of that dopamine,

[00:11:33:12 – 00:11:35:22]
that new experience caused

[00:11:35:22 – 00:11:39:26]
your body to feel good things.

[00:11:39:26 – 00:11:41:06]
The memories of that were

[00:11:41:06 – 00:11:42:26]
triggering the dopamine release

[00:11:42:26 – 00:11:44:07]
to be continued.

[00:11:44:07 – 00:11:44:26]
Yes.

[00:11:44:26 – 00:11:48:08]
And then because it was

[00:11:48:08 – 00:11:50:06]
novel, it was different.

[00:11:50:06 – 00:11:52:19]
That novelty also

[00:11:52:19 – 00:11:55:01]
triggered you to think about it

[00:11:55:01 – 00:11:56:01]
because it wasn’t

[00:11:56:01 – 00:11:57:21]
something that you were used to.

[00:11:57:21 – 00:11:59:00]
Right, right.

[00:11:59:00 – 00:12:02:25]
So we had a few more interactions

[00:12:02:25 – 00:12:06:08]
in that regard with singles,

[00:12:06:08 – 00:12:10:04]
but I decided that’s probably not for me

[00:12:10:04 – 00:12:14:07]
because it just, it messed,

[00:12:14:07 – 00:12:16:09]
messed with my head a

[00:12:16:09 – 00:12:17:11]
little bit too much.

[00:12:17:11 – 00:12:19:06]
I didn’t like

[00:12:19:06 – 00:12:21:28]
thinking about somebody else

[00:12:21:28 – 00:12:24:08]
like that in that way or

[00:12:24:08 – 00:12:25:24]
looking forward to that.

[00:12:25:24 – 00:12:28:13]
Now would have gotten

[00:12:28:13 – 00:12:31:18]
better if after I got used to it

[00:12:31:18 – 00:12:34:25]
over time, possibly, but

[00:12:34:25 – 00:12:36:23]
how long would that take?

[00:12:36:23 – 00:12:38:03]
Yeah, I don’t know.

[00:12:38:03 – 00:12:39:28]
Because the newness of

[00:12:39:28 – 00:12:43:06]
swinging kind of dissipated for us.

[00:12:43:06 – 00:12:46:26]
Oh, I don’t know.

[00:12:46:26 – 00:12:49:10]
It didn’t even get close to dissipating

[00:12:49:10 – 00:12:50:23]
until like maybe around

[00:12:50:23 – 00:12:54:03]
year 10, maybe year 11.

[00:12:54:03 – 00:12:54:11]
Right.

[00:12:54:11 – 00:12:57:11]
Where we have over time

[00:12:57:11 – 00:12:58:25]
been to enough events,

[00:12:58:25 – 00:13:00:10]
had enough experiences,

[00:13:00:10 – 00:13:02:09]
been to enough venues and

[00:13:02:09 – 00:13:04:00]
resorts and meet and greets,

[00:13:04:00 – 00:13:05:06]
et cetera, et cetera.

[00:13:05:06 – 00:13:05:15]
Right.

[00:13:05:15 – 00:13:06:06]
That we were kind of

[00:13:06:06 – 00:13:08:23]
like, yeah, you know.

[00:13:08:23 – 00:13:10:10]
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

[00:13:10:10 – 00:13:13:25]
Yep. Kind of know what to expect.

[00:13:13:25 – 00:13:18:00]
Yeah, that novelty had kind of worn off.

[00:13:18:00 – 00:13:19:18]
It wasn’t new in

[00:13:19:18 – 00:13:21:15]
Chinese, the new swing or smell,

[00:13:21:15 – 00:13:22:13]
so to speak, kind of

[00:13:22:13 – 00:13:23:11]
rubbed off a little bit.

[00:13:23:11 – 00:13:23:23]
Yeah, yeah.

[00:13:23:23 – 00:13:26:21]
So, which is actually a really good segue

[00:13:26:21 – 00:13:27:16]
to our next section,

[00:13:27:16 – 00:13:28:28]
which is about novelty

[00:13:28:28 – 00:13:31:19]
and how novelty, our

[00:13:31:19 – 00:13:34:11]
brains crave novelty.

[00:13:34:11 – 00:13:35:04]
They do.

[00:13:35:04 – 00:13:39:01]
So that’s 100% reason why

[00:13:39:01 – 00:13:46:18]
everybody has their new phone every year

[00:13:46:18 – 00:13:49:01]
because it’s new, it’s novel.

[00:13:49:01 – 00:13:49:22]
Yep.

[00:13:49:22 – 00:13:52:00]
And the long and short of it is,

[00:13:52:00 – 00:13:56:11]
it’s not much different

[00:13:56:11 – 00:13:57:13]
than your existing phone.

[00:13:57:13 – 00:13:58:10]
I mean, especially this

[00:13:58:10 – 00:14:01:00]
particular one this year.

[00:14:01:00 – 00:14:02:01]
You know, it’s, oh,

[00:14:02:01 – 00:14:04:07]
it’s like, it’s 10% thinner

[00:14:04:07 – 00:14:07:26]
and it’s got one hour more battery life.

[00:14:07:26 – 00:14:12:16]
So companies, sales

[00:14:12:16 – 00:14:14:01]
companies, organizations,

[00:14:14:01 – 00:14:16:21]
prey on that novelty because

[00:14:16:21 – 00:14:18:23]
all of our brains crave it.

[00:14:18:23 – 00:14:21:07]
Like we live for this as human beings.

[00:14:21:07 – 00:14:24:13]
And that’s half the

[00:14:24:13 – 00:14:26:22]
reason why NRE is so powerful

[00:14:26:22 – 00:14:29:06]
because it’s different, it’s novel.

[00:14:29:06 – 00:14:30:03]
It kind of breaks you

[00:14:30:03 – 00:14:31:10]
out of your normal routine

[00:14:31:10 – 00:14:33:26]
and we like trying new things.

[00:14:33:26 – 00:14:37:06]
Well, and on a scientific level,

[00:14:37:06 – 00:14:40:04]
I mean, it’s innate to our survival.

[00:14:40:04 – 00:14:42:19]
It’s part of our evolution.

[00:14:42:19 – 00:14:46:27]
We crave new foods or we

[00:14:46:27 – 00:14:48:18]
need to seek new foods.

[00:14:48:18 – 00:14:51:24]
We like seeking out new people

[00:14:51:24 – 00:14:54:04]
and new interactions and new places.

[00:14:54:04 – 00:14:56:28]
It’s just part of that

[00:14:56:28 – 00:15:00:18]
innateness of our being.

[00:15:00:18 – 00:15:00:25]
Right.

[00:15:00:25 – 00:15:04:06]
And so, as we said before, dopamine

[00:15:04:06 – 00:15:06:10]
is gonna be that primary driver.

[00:15:06:10 – 00:15:09:23]
It rewards the pursuit of novelty.

[00:15:09:23 – 00:15:12:21]
So it’s quite the

[00:15:12:21 – 00:15:14:28]
loop that you get going.

[00:15:14:28 – 00:15:18:16]
And it does dopamine

[00:15:18:16 – 00:15:20:08]
release different amounts

[00:15:20:08 – 00:15:22:08]
in each person.

[00:15:22:08 – 00:15:24:19]
So each person’s reward pathway

[00:15:24:19 – 00:15:26:19]
is going to be a little different.

[00:15:26:19 – 00:15:32:00]
And so once again, it’s

[00:15:32:00 – 00:15:32:26]
not universal to everybody.

[00:15:32:26 – 00:15:36:09]
Not everybody’s gonna

[00:15:36:09 – 00:15:37:16]
have that same experience

[00:15:37:16 – 00:15:38:25]
in the lifestyle. Right, that same level

[00:15:38:25 – 00:15:41:19]
of reaction, that feeling, right?

[00:15:41:19 – 00:15:47:10]
Yeah, and we’ve seen, we had a couple

[00:15:47:10 – 00:15:48:18]
that we really, really

[00:15:48:18 – 00:15:50:26]
liked that started off here

[00:15:50:26 – 00:15:51:24]
and they just went…

[00:15:51:24 – 00:15:55:00]
Oh yeah, it was straight into orbit.

[00:15:55:00 – 00:15:55:23]
It was P and V.

[00:15:55:23 – 00:15:56:12]
Yup.

[00:15:56:12 – 00:15:59:18]
They, I mean, you could tell,

[00:15:59:18 – 00:16:01:13]
they just blasted off.

[00:16:01:13 – 00:16:03:26]
They started off

[00:16:03:26 – 00:16:05:12]
probably at meet and greets

[00:16:05:12 – 00:16:07:12]
and then went to…

[00:16:07:12 – 00:16:07:27]
Then they were

[00:16:07:27 – 00:16:11:00]
hosting like 20 person orgy

[00:16:11:00 – 00:16:12:10]
house party things.

[00:16:12:10 – 00:16:13:11]
And then…

[00:16:13:11 – 00:16:14:28]
And they were vanilla hunting.

[00:16:14:28 – 00:16:17:00]
Drugs started coming

[00:16:17:00 – 00:16:19:04]
into part of the experience

[00:16:19:04 – 00:16:20:06]
of it all. Right.

[00:16:20:06 – 00:16:22:15]
And then, yes, then

[00:16:22:15 – 00:16:23:23]
they were vanilla hunting.

[00:16:23:23 – 00:16:26:06]
And then, I mean, it just,

[00:16:26:06 – 00:16:29:00]
wow, they were doing all of it.

[00:16:29:00 – 00:16:29:21]
And I think they may have tried dating separately

[00:16:29:21 – 00:16:32:00]
even for a while.

[00:16:32:00 – 00:16:33:13]
So they tried all of it.

[00:16:33:13 – 00:16:34:21]
I don’t know if they went to Polly,

[00:16:34:21 – 00:16:37:21]
which is always my fear.

[00:16:37:21 – 00:16:38:10]
It was like, “Oh my

[00:16:38:10 – 00:16:39:10]
God, if we start here,

[00:16:39:10 – 00:16:40:18]
then we’re gonna be like having a…

[00:16:40:18 – 00:16:41:00]
We don’t have a big

[00:16:41:00 – 00:16:41:28]
enough house to go Polly.

[00:16:41:28 – 00:16:43:25]
I’m just saying, you know,

[00:16:43:25 – 00:16:45:01]
they’d have to sleep here

[00:16:45:01 – 00:16:45:25]
in the podcast room.

[00:16:45:25 – 00:16:47:10]
Not that there’s

[00:16:47:10 – 00:16:49:28]
anything wrong with Polly.

[00:16:49:28 – 00:16:51:12]
I’m not inferring that at all.

[00:16:51:12 – 00:16:52:25]
I just know that’s not for me.

[00:16:52:25 – 00:16:54:25]
My brain wouldn’t be

[00:16:54:25 – 00:16:56:13]
able to manage all that.

[00:16:56:13 – 00:16:57:07]
My emotions wouldn’t be

[00:16:57:07 – 00:16:58:03]
able to manage all that.

[00:16:58:03 – 00:16:58:27]
It’s a thing. It’s a thing.

[00:16:58:27 – 00:17:00:21]
Yeah, but some people

[00:17:00:21 – 00:17:02:11]
are really wired for that.

[00:17:02:11 – 00:17:04:20]
And I love that for them.

[00:17:04:20 – 00:17:05:04]
I really do.

[00:17:05:04 – 00:17:09:28]
So we can all get high on novelty

[00:17:09:28 – 00:17:13:27]
and eventually it can be normalized

[00:17:13:27 – 00:17:15:15]
as I was talking about earlier.

[00:17:15:15 – 00:17:17:21]
We can get a bit desensitized.

[00:17:17:21 – 00:17:20:00]
As you mentioned, been there,

[00:17:20:00 – 00:17:20:28]
done that, bought the t-shirt.

[00:17:20:28 – 00:17:23:09]
I don’t get caught up in NRE anymore

[00:17:23:09 – 00:17:24:10]
because nine out of 10

[00:17:24:10 – 00:17:26:20]
such flings don’t go anywhere.

[00:17:26:20 – 00:17:28:08]
And I have to be selective

[00:17:28:08 – 00:17:30:05]
about taking on new people

[00:17:30:05 – 00:17:33:13]
because of time and energy constraints.

[00:17:33:13 – 00:17:38:04]
I get NRE from not just a

[00:17:38:04 – 00:17:39:17]
connection with someone,

[00:17:39:17 – 00:17:42:00]
but I’ll get the NRE from

[00:17:42:00 – 00:17:44:12]
just the social engagement.

[00:17:44:12 – 00:17:47:02]
Like to me, that’s kind of new

[00:17:47:02 – 00:17:49:00]
relationship energy as well.

[00:17:49:00 – 00:17:49:12]
Right.

[00:17:49:12 – 00:17:52:19]
Where you’ve met somebody new

[00:17:52:19 – 00:17:53:18]
and they share your

[00:17:53:18 – 00:17:54:19]
perspective and you’re like,

[00:17:54:19 – 00:17:56:08]
oh my God, you’re just like me.

[00:17:56:08 – 00:17:58:28]
Oh my gosh, I have the same thing.

[00:17:58:28 – 00:18:00:22]
Or I think the same way.

[00:18:00:22 – 00:18:02:17]
Or I feel the same way.

[00:18:02:17 – 00:18:03:23]
And what about X, Y, and Z?

[00:18:03:23 – 00:18:06:12]
So then you wanna go back

[00:18:06:12 – 00:18:08:00]
and you wanna engage with that person,

[00:18:08:00 – 00:18:10:28]
which sometimes people

[00:18:10:28 – 00:18:11:27]
call that just friendship.

[00:18:11:27 – 00:18:15:05]
But yes, it’s in that social setting

[00:18:15:05 – 00:18:20:22]
that gives me that feeling that I belong,

[00:18:20:22 – 00:18:21:21]
the feeling of

[00:18:21:21 – 00:18:24:17]
belonging and just acceptance.

[00:18:24:17 – 00:18:27:08]
And that’s really lovely.

[00:18:27:08 – 00:18:32:28]
And I think I will always have that

[00:18:32:28 – 00:18:34:02]
and I’ll always miss

[00:18:34:02 – 00:18:35:13]
it when I don’t have it,

[00:18:35:13 – 00:18:38:01]
but it’s a lovely place to be.

[00:18:38:01 – 00:18:42:07]
Someone asked what vanilla hunting is.

[00:18:42:07 – 00:18:48:18]
Oh, so vanilla hunting is when you’re,

[00:18:48:18 – 00:18:51:13]
let’s just say at an eye or at a bar

[00:18:51:13 – 00:18:57:17]
and our bartender is very sexy.

[00:18:57:17 – 00:18:58:27]
Let’s just say it’s woman.

[00:18:58:27 – 00:19:01:16]
This actually is kind of a true story.

[00:19:01:16 – 00:19:02:20]
They really happened.

[00:19:02:20 – 00:19:07:17]
And we are just, we’re

[00:19:07:17 – 00:19:08:27]
waiting for our table to open up.

[00:19:08:27 – 00:19:10:04]
We’re at the bar, we’re having a drink.

[00:19:10:04 – 00:19:12:18]
And our bartender was a

[00:19:12:18 – 00:19:15:06]
woman and she was just very sexy.

[00:19:15:06 – 00:19:16:24]
Like she was wearing

[00:19:16:24 – 00:19:18:15]
sexy clothes and she,

[00:19:18:15 – 00:19:20:27]
her confidence, so her

[00:19:20:27 – 00:19:22:20]
attitude was very sexy.

[00:19:22:20 – 00:19:23:27]
She was very confident.

[00:19:23:27 – 00:19:25:24]
She would smile.

[00:19:25:24 – 00:19:28:25]
And I swear she would like,

[00:19:28:25 – 00:19:32:03]
just like wink at you without winking.

[00:19:32:03 – 00:19:34:06]
Like you could tell she

[00:19:34:06 – 00:19:36:15]
was just being super flirty.

[00:19:36:15 – 00:19:39:06]
And I was, and she

[00:19:39:06 – 00:19:40:23]
kept coming back to us.

[00:19:40:23 – 00:19:42:20]
So I kept trying to have private

[00:19:42:20 – 00:19:45:03]
conversations with Ed.

[00:19:45:03 – 00:19:46:23]
Like, is she flirting with us?

[00:19:46:23 – 00:19:47:15]
What do you think?

[00:19:47:15 – 00:19:49:06]
Should we, right?

[00:19:49:06 – 00:19:51:15]
And so she kept coming back and giving us

[00:19:51:15 – 00:19:52:27]
all this extra attention.

[00:19:52:27 – 00:19:55:16]
And I said, we could

[00:19:55:16 – 00:19:57:01]
totally vanilla hunt her.

[00:19:57:01 – 00:19:59:27]
So we thought she was a non-swinger,

[00:19:59:27 – 00:20:01:12]
not in the lifestyle, but

[00:20:01:12 – 00:20:03:15]
definitely interested in us.

[00:20:03:15 – 00:20:05:04]
And maybe she really was a swinger.

[00:20:05:04 – 00:20:06:23]
Maybe she was, maybe she wasn’t.

[00:20:06:23 – 00:20:08:19]
Well, we didn’t find out.

[00:20:08:19 – 00:20:11:20]
No, but the theory is you flirt

[00:20:11:20 – 00:20:15:07]
and with someone who’s

[00:20:15:07 – 00:20:16:20]
not even in the lifestyle

[00:20:16:20 – 00:20:20:02]
and smile, I said, smile.

[00:20:20:02 – 00:20:22:01]
In the lifestyle, I

[00:20:22:01 – 00:20:22:23]
haven’t even been drinking.

[00:20:22:23 – 00:20:26:20]
And you convert them, you hunt them down.

[00:20:26:20 – 00:20:27:25]
You hunt a vanilla.

[00:20:27:25 – 00:20:29:27]
Even if it’s only for

[00:20:29:27 – 00:20:31:23]
one night, one evening,

[00:20:31:23 – 00:20:33:04]
a little bit of fun.

[00:20:33:04 – 00:20:34:16]
Right, where you’re in

[00:20:34:16 – 00:20:35:27]
a bar and you’re dancing

[00:20:35:27 – 00:20:37:01]
and you’re super flirty.

[00:20:37:01 – 00:20:39:04]
And all of a sudden you’re

[00:20:39:04 – 00:20:41:28]
dragging a single woman home,

[00:20:41:28 – 00:20:42:28]
dragging, you know,

[00:20:42:28 – 00:20:44:10]
obviously with consent.

[00:20:44:10 – 00:20:46:07]
Home to your house.

[00:20:46:07 – 00:20:49:03]
And she’s like, woohoo, you know,

[00:20:49:03 – 00:20:51:00]
what happens one night stays, you know,

[00:20:51:00 – 00:20:52:15]
what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.

[00:20:52:15 – 00:20:54:09]
Right, and then off she goes.

[00:20:54:09 – 00:20:56:24]
And then later in her 60s, she goes,

[00:20:56:24 – 00:20:59:04]
oh, that one night in my 20s when, yeah.

[00:20:59:04 – 00:21:01:02]
At that time, that time in Vegas.

[00:21:01:02 – 00:21:02:27]
Yeah, so.

[00:21:02:27 – 00:21:07:05]
Let’s see, another question.

[00:21:07:05 – 00:21:10:23]
Oh, oh, Ken, Ken, Ken, I love Ken, Ken.

[00:21:10:23 – 00:21:13:01]
The real NRE magic for

[00:21:13:01 – 00:21:14:16]
me isn’t what I chase.

[00:21:14:16 – 00:21:16:16]
It’s the unexpected.

[00:21:16:16 – 00:21:19:04]
Like when someone you’re into,

[00:21:19:04 – 00:21:22:23]
but assume would never be into,

[00:21:22:23 – 00:21:25:10]
tells you the same thing.

[00:21:25:10 – 00:21:27:02]
Yeah, that is pretty exciting.

[00:21:27:02 – 00:21:29:20]
That’s that unexpected.

[00:21:29:20 – 00:21:31:27]
Oh, me?

[00:21:31:27 – 00:21:34:23]
It’s very flattering to get that kind of.

[00:21:34:23 – 00:21:35:20]
Yes.

[00:21:35:20 – 00:21:39:27]
Unexpected validation, if you will.

[00:21:39:27 – 00:21:42:20]
Yes, I have had that happen.

[00:21:42:20 – 00:21:45:15]
We were in Costa Rica when that happened.

[00:21:45:15 – 00:21:46:08]
We were in the pool

[00:21:46:08 – 00:21:48:04]
and there was somebody,

[00:21:48:04 – 00:21:50:15]
I had already, Ed and I

[00:21:50:15 – 00:21:52:00]
had already had like a little

[00:21:52:00 – 00:21:54:15]
side line conversation where,

[00:21:54:15 – 00:21:55:23]
because we really

[00:21:55:23 – 00:21:57:03]
wanted to kind of hone in

[00:21:57:03 – 00:21:59:13]
on a couple of the

[00:21:59:13 – 00:22:01:13]
couples and try to make a date,

[00:22:01:13 – 00:22:03:15]
like a dinner date coming up or a

[00:22:03:15 – 00:22:04:16]
potential play date.

[00:22:04:16 – 00:22:07:10]
We really wanted to be more forward

[00:22:07:10 – 00:22:10:08]
with our next conversation,

[00:22:10:08 – 00:22:11:15]
because we really liked them.

[00:22:11:15 – 00:22:15:22]
So we were getting our strategy together.

[00:22:15:22 – 00:22:17:15]
And so I was like, nope,

[00:22:17:15 – 00:22:20:07]
nope, yes, definitely, nope,

[00:22:20:07 – 00:22:22:00]
as we were going around the pool.

[00:22:22:00 – 00:22:24:06]
And so then we knew where

[00:22:24:06 – 00:22:25:08]
we were gonna spend our time,

[00:22:25:08 – 00:22:26:16]
because we had already had conversations

[00:22:26:16 – 00:22:27:15]
with a lot of these people.

[00:22:27:15 – 00:22:33:07]
And one of the nopes was actually,

[00:22:33:07 – 00:22:38:04]
I guess after I saddled

[00:22:38:04 – 00:22:39:10]
up next to him at the bar,

[00:22:39:10 – 00:22:40:13]
got my drink and he

[00:22:40:13 – 00:22:41:22]
started talking to me.

[00:22:41:22 – 00:22:46:07]
And something about what he was saying

[00:22:46:07 – 00:22:48:13]
was different than before.

[00:22:48:13 – 00:22:51:25]
And then all of a sudden we were kissing.

[00:22:51:25 – 00:22:55:01]
And then once we were kissing, oh man.

[00:22:55:01 – 00:22:55:28]
It was all over then.

[00:22:55:28 – 00:22:57:19]
It was all over.

[00:22:57:19 – 00:22:59:15]
Don’t believe me, kicked in.

[00:22:59:15 – 00:23:04:02]
There was something about that kiss

[00:23:04:02 – 00:23:06:12]
that was just like fire.

[00:23:06:12 – 00:23:10:01]
And I’m like, oh yes, my mind’s changed.

[00:23:10:01 – 00:23:12:16]
Yes, this person just

[00:23:12:16 – 00:23:14:00]
moved to the top of the list.

[00:23:14:00 – 00:23:15:02]
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[00:23:15:02 – 00:23:16:12]
It was so much fun.

[00:23:16:12 – 00:23:17:15]
It was so much fun.

[00:23:17:15 – 00:23:19:00]
We’ve definitely had situations like that

[00:23:19:00 – 00:23:22:04]
where just not expecting

[00:23:22:04 – 00:23:23:17]
anything to happen that night.

[00:23:23:17 – 00:23:25:23]
And then the next thing you know,

[00:23:25:23 – 00:23:27:06]
we’re like in a playroom

[00:23:27:06 – 00:23:28:05]
or something’s happened.

[00:23:28:05 – 00:23:31:23]
Yeah, which is why I don’t completely

[00:23:31:23 – 00:23:33:19]
ever write somebody off.

[00:23:33:19 – 00:23:35:15]
I just use the nope,

[00:23:35:15 – 00:23:36:17]
nope, yes, definitely.

[00:23:36:17 – 00:23:40:00]
Or like I said, we’re

[00:23:40:00 – 00:23:41:19]
gonna focus our energy

[00:23:41:19 – 00:23:44:16]
because you can’t pursue

[00:23:44:16 – 00:23:47:07]
six couples at the same time.

[00:23:47:07 – 00:23:50:06]
You kind of have to, you can,

[00:23:50:06 – 00:23:52:28]
but you also have to lock in one

[00:23:52:28 – 00:23:54:27]
if you’re gonna get anywhere.

[00:23:54:27 – 00:23:57:00]
Unless you just say all

[00:23:57:00 – 00:23:59:21]
six of you party in our room.

[00:23:59:21 – 00:24:00:10]
Come on, dad.

[00:24:00:10 – 00:24:02:12]
That’s right, and that has happened.

[00:24:02:12 – 00:24:03:13]
That has happened also.

[00:24:03:13 – 00:24:04:10]
That has happened.

[00:24:04:10 – 00:24:07:25]
So, Pleasure paradox.

[00:24:07:25 – 00:24:09:13]
Part of this is this

[00:24:09:13 – 00:24:11:12]
whole addiction cycle

[00:24:11:12 – 00:24:12:20]
that we’ve been talking about,

[00:24:12:20 – 00:24:14:02]
but then there’s this

[00:24:14:02 – 00:24:18:01]
constant bombardment

[00:24:18:01 – 00:24:21:09]
of the pleasure centers in your brain.

[00:24:21:09 – 00:24:22:16]
So they’re just being hit

[00:24:22:16 – 00:24:24:22]
over and over and over again.

[00:24:24:22 – 00:24:25:05]
Yeah.

[00:24:25:05 – 00:24:28:00]
Basically, everyday life.

[00:24:28:00 – 00:24:29:28]
And this is probably the best example.

[00:24:29:28 – 00:24:30:21]
And this is why a lot

[00:24:30:21 – 00:24:31:19]
of people have issues

[00:24:31:19 – 00:24:32:19]
with social media.

[00:24:32:19 – 00:24:34:06]
A lot of psychologists or scientists

[00:24:34:06 – 00:24:35:27]
are having issues with social media

[00:24:35:27 – 00:24:39:28]
because that dopamine scrolling,

[00:24:39:28 – 00:24:42:12]
you even hear people refer to it as that.

[00:24:42:12 – 00:24:42:21]
Yes.

[00:24:42:21 – 00:24:44:05]
Where you’re looking

[00:24:44:05 – 00:24:46:27]
for the next funny, cute,

[00:24:46:27 – 00:24:49:12]
entertaining podcast

[00:24:49:12 – 00:24:51:05]
that just happens to pop up

[00:24:51:05 – 00:24:52:19]
on your screen and you

[00:24:52:19 – 00:24:54:00]
jump into the live room.

[00:24:54:00 – 00:24:57:05]
We’re doing this all

[00:24:57:05 – 00:24:59:00]
day long, most people are.

[00:24:59:00 – 00:25:02:12]
Yeah, you do way more than I do.

[00:25:02:12 – 00:25:05:10]
I don’t on purpose

[00:25:05:10 – 00:25:06:20]
because it’s a time suck

[00:25:06:20 – 00:25:07:23]
and I could be there forever.

[00:25:07:23 – 00:25:09:15]
And I have so little

[00:25:09:15 – 00:25:11:08]
time, I need all my time.

[00:25:11:08 – 00:25:16:23]
So, everyday life has

[00:25:16:23 – 00:25:18:27]
become this all time high

[00:25:18:27 – 00:25:22:05]
and society has really been drugified.

[00:25:22:05 – 00:25:24:23]
The drugified is normal.

[00:25:24:23 – 00:25:25:05]
Right.

[00:25:25:05 – 00:25:28:02]
And normal and healthy

[00:25:28:02 – 00:25:29:21]
activities like sex, eating,

[00:25:29:21 – 00:25:30:23]
playing games, et

[00:25:30:23 – 00:25:36:10]
cetera is even drugified.

[00:25:36:10 – 00:25:39:07]
Yeah, I mean, here’s

[00:25:39:07 – 00:25:40:22]
some common vanilla things

[00:25:40:22 – 00:25:42:28]
that we could talk about, food.

[00:25:42:28 – 00:25:44:15]
They add things to food

[00:25:44:15 – 00:25:46:27]
to make them more savory,

[00:25:46:27 – 00:25:49:03]
more tasty, more who knows

[00:25:49:03 – 00:25:51:05]
what they’re putting in there.

[00:25:51:05 – 00:25:55:10]
So, you can’t eat just one, right?

[00:25:55:10 – 00:25:55:27]
Like they even have

[00:25:55:27 – 00:25:56:27]
commercials talking about

[00:25:56:27 – 00:25:58:10]
how addictive the food is.

[00:25:58:10 – 00:26:01:12]
Remember we watched the

[00:26:01:12 – 00:26:02:17]
documentary on the chip

[00:26:02:17 – 00:26:04:13]
and the science behind the potato chip

[00:26:04:13 – 00:26:05:15]
and the special

[00:26:05:15 – 00:26:07:20]
machine they had designed.

[00:26:07:20 – 00:26:09:19]
To create that crunching sensation

[00:26:09:19 – 00:26:11:00]
and how long it lasted

[00:26:11:00 – 00:26:12:13]
and yeah, all of that.

[00:26:12:13 – 00:26:13:21]
And the flavor and how it

[00:26:13:21 – 00:26:15:05]
dissipates on your palate

[00:26:15:05 – 00:26:16:20]
and how it moves around your mouth.

[00:26:16:20 – 00:26:20:15]
I mean, there is some serious science

[00:26:20:15 – 00:26:21:27]
behind a potato chip.

[00:26:21:27 – 00:26:22:25]
And then we can talk

[00:26:22:25 – 00:26:24:18]
about just sex in general.

[00:26:24:18 – 00:26:27:16]
It’s not only available anywhere.

[00:26:27:16 – 00:26:29:05]
I mean, we’re all walking around

[00:26:29:05 – 00:26:30:12]
with little porn machines

[00:26:30:12 – 00:26:33:04]
in our pockets all the time,

[00:26:33:04 – 00:26:35:13]
but it’s on TV too.

[00:26:35:13 – 00:26:39:19]
And if you, and I’m

[00:26:39:19 – 00:26:40:17]
glad that it’s becoming

[00:26:40:17 – 00:26:41:23]
a little bit more normalized

[00:26:41:23 – 00:26:42:23]
and that people aren’t

[00:26:42:23 – 00:26:44:02]
freaking out about sex

[00:26:44:02 – 00:26:45:15]
as much as they used to,

[00:26:45:15 – 00:26:47:21]
but television shows now,

[00:26:47:21 – 00:26:52:06]
like they’re full blown sex scenes.

[00:26:52:06 – 00:26:52:20]
And because most

[00:26:52:20 – 00:26:54:08]
people watch TV on cable,

[00:26:54:08 – 00:26:56:01]
we’re talking like full

[00:26:56:01 – 00:26:57:19]
frontal nudity most of the time.

[00:26:57:19 – 00:27:00:00]
The only thing they don’t

[00:27:00:00 – 00:27:01:04]
show is penetrative sex.

[00:27:01:04 – 00:27:01:28]
Right.

[00:27:01:28 – 00:27:02:19]
Yet.

[00:27:02:19 – 00:27:03:17]
Right.

[00:27:03:17 – 00:27:04:10]
Yet.

[00:27:04:10 – 00:27:06:20]
Game of Thrones in a couple

[00:27:06:20 – 00:27:07:23]
of seasons, you never know.

[00:27:07:23 – 00:27:09:01]
You just get there.

[00:27:09:01 – 00:27:14:10]
But kind of peeling back

[00:27:14:10 – 00:27:16:20]
even from the sex scenes

[00:27:16:20 – 00:27:19:05]
and that kind of aspect of it,

[00:27:19:05 – 00:27:23:06]
think about how fashion has evolved

[00:27:23:06 – 00:27:25:00]
and how even like a

[00:27:25:00 – 00:27:27:00]
halftime show at the Superbowl

[00:27:27:00 – 00:27:29:07]
is very sexualized.

[00:27:29:07 – 00:27:31:05]
Like everything about

[00:27:31:05 – 00:27:32:15]
pretty much anything

[00:27:32:15 – 00:27:33:24]
that we do in entertainment,

[00:27:33:24 – 00:27:37:24]
it’s like very sexily dressed.

[00:27:37:24 – 00:27:40:12]
They’re gyrating their hips.

[00:27:40:12 – 00:27:42:16]
And this has been

[00:27:42:16 – 00:27:43:16]
going on for a long time

[00:27:43:16 – 00:27:45:00]
because Elvis’s biggest

[00:27:45:00 – 00:27:47:27]
problem was that he gyrated his hips

[00:27:47:27 – 00:27:49:17]
and it was very sexual.

[00:27:49:17 – 00:27:51:00]
And so people had huge

[00:27:51:00 – 00:27:53:00]
problems with Elvis Presley

[00:27:53:00 – 00:27:54:13]
and his dance moves.

[00:27:54:13 – 00:27:58:00]
And it hasn’t changed, right?

[00:27:58:00 – 00:28:04:01]
Like there’s still this constant flooding

[00:28:04:01 – 00:28:06:13]
of sexual imagery in

[00:28:06:13 – 00:28:08:00]
pretty much everything we do.

[00:28:08:00 – 00:28:10:27]
I prefer that to then maybe

[00:28:10:27 – 00:28:14:06]
the constant violent stimulus

[00:28:14:06 – 00:28:15:20]
that we’re getting all the time too,

[00:28:15:20 – 00:28:18:19]
but it does become kind

[00:28:18:19 – 00:28:20:25]
of desensitized over time.

[00:28:20:25 – 00:28:23:22]
Yeah, and due to that

[00:28:23:22 – 00:28:25:23]
constant dopamine high

[00:28:25:23 – 00:28:29:24]
outside of our normal dopamine levels.

[00:28:29:24 – 00:28:31:02]
Right, that just woke up.

[00:28:31:02 – 00:28:32:22]
Yeah, the brain

[00:28:32:22 – 00:28:35:01]
really does try to regulate

[00:28:35:01 – 00:28:36:08]
by seeking balance.

[00:28:36:08 – 00:28:36:21]
Yeah.

[00:28:36:21 – 00:28:40:01]
And thus reducing

[00:28:40:01 – 00:28:42:04]
your dopamine production

[00:28:42:04 – 00:28:44:28]
because it’s trying to seek balance,

[00:28:44:28 – 00:28:47:12]
which is why the

[00:28:47:12 – 00:28:48:08]
theory is a lot of people

[00:28:48:08 – 00:28:50:13]
are kind of slipping

[00:28:50:13 – 00:28:52:09]
into that depressive state

[00:28:52:09 – 00:28:55:24]
because your brain is

[00:28:55:24 – 00:28:56:19]
because your brain is

[00:28:56:19 – 00:28:58:28]
constantly trying to regulate that.

[00:28:58:28 – 00:29:01:13]
And it becomes this

[00:29:01:13 – 00:29:03:15]
chronic dopamine deficit

[00:29:03:15 – 00:29:06:03]
where the spike is less and less,

[00:29:06:03 – 00:29:11:00]
but you need more to get high.

[00:29:11:00 – 00:29:12:16]
Well, and part of that

[00:29:12:16 – 00:29:15:15]
too is that the level

[00:29:15:15 – 00:29:16:08]
that you’ve become

[00:29:16:08 – 00:29:19:16]
accustomed to is so disproportionately

[00:29:19:16 – 00:29:23:01]
high that when you’re not at that level,

[00:29:23:01 – 00:29:25:10]
you feel like you’re wrong.

[00:29:25:10 – 00:29:26:08]
Yeah.

[00:29:26:08 – 00:29:29:17]
And so that’s the real kind

[00:29:29:17 – 00:29:31:07]
of danger part about that is,

[00:29:31:07 – 00:29:34:08]
I feel terrible when I’m not doom

[00:29:34:08 – 00:29:35:19]
scrolling on my phone

[00:29:35:19 – 00:29:38:01]
or when I’m not eating food

[00:29:38:01 – 00:29:40:02]
or when I’m not having sex.

[00:29:40:02 – 00:29:43:00]
That’s where it’s really bad

[00:29:43:00 – 00:29:45:28]
because you’ve gotten so

[00:29:45:28 – 00:29:48:22]
used to this weirdly high level

[00:29:48:22 – 00:29:50:23]
of excitement all the

[00:29:50:23 – 00:29:52:07]
time that everything

[00:29:52:07 – 00:29:53:28]
at a normal level,

[00:29:53:28 – 00:29:55:13]
which would have been like,

[00:29:55:13 – 00:29:57:22]
wow, this was a great experience

[00:29:57:22 – 00:29:59:28]
as now it’s not so great.

[00:29:59:28 – 00:30:01:07]
Yeah, yeah.

[00:30:01:07 – 00:30:05:02]
And so then why, right?

[00:30:05:02 – 00:30:06:12]
And four factors have

[00:30:06:12 – 00:30:08:00]
increased, the quantity,

[00:30:08:00 – 00:30:10:04]
the access or availability,

[00:30:10:04 – 00:30:12:00]
the potency and the novelty.

[00:30:12:00 – 00:30:14:19]
This all affects the

[00:30:14:19 – 00:30:16:07]
dopamine center of the brain.

[00:30:16:07 – 00:30:17:08]
Yes.

[00:30:17:08 – 00:30:20:05]
And so when you’re

[00:30:20:05 – 00:30:22:05]
chasing a dopamine high

[00:30:22:05 – 00:30:26:21]
and perhaps have that E&M,

[00:30:26:21 – 00:30:29:04]
ethical non-monogamy addictive behavior,

[00:30:29:04 – 00:30:32:00]
that dopamine is gonna be extremely

[00:30:32:00 – 00:30:33:20]
sensitive to novelty.

[00:30:33:20 – 00:30:37:27]
And I will say that

[00:30:37:27 – 00:30:39:20]
secrecy that we used to have,

[00:30:39:20 – 00:30:43:07]
that was really exciting.

[00:30:43:07 – 00:30:45:07]
Oh yeah, you feel

[00:30:45:07 – 00:30:46:09]
like you’re getting away

[00:30:46:09 – 00:30:46:25]
with something.

[00:30:46:25 – 00:30:47:09]
Oh yeah.

[00:30:47:09 – 00:30:48:20]
It’s the, ooh.

[00:30:48:20 – 00:30:49:04]
Oh my God.

[00:30:49:04 – 00:30:50:17]
If the neighbors only

[00:30:50:17 – 00:30:51:19]
knew what we were doing.

[00:30:51:19 – 00:30:52:15]
If my parents knew,

[00:30:52:15 – 00:30:53:23]
like if the neighbors knew,

[00:30:53:23 – 00:30:55:13]
like you feel like, I

[00:30:55:13 – 00:30:57:12]
remember the first time I had sex,

[00:30:57:12 – 00:31:00:03]
I swear to God, I felt like I

[00:31:00:03 – 00:31:02:08]
had a neon sign on my forehead

[00:31:02:08 – 00:31:05:01]
and I felt like everyone was gonna know

[00:31:05:01 – 00:31:06:20]
because I looked different.

[00:31:06:20 – 00:31:06:27]
Right.

[00:31:06:27 – 00:31:08:13]
People would just

[00:31:08:13 – 00:31:09:22]
look at me and they’d go,

[00:31:09:22 – 00:31:10:20]
(gasps)

[00:31:10:20 – 00:31:11:28]
“You’re no longer urgent.”

[00:31:11:28 – 00:31:12:20]
Right?

[00:31:12:20 – 00:31:14:12]
And nobody knew.

[00:31:14:12 – 00:31:15:04]
No.

[00:31:15:04 – 00:31:16:09]
But that was the same–

[00:31:16:09 – 00:31:18:00]
They do it in the movies all the time.

[00:31:18:00 – 00:31:20:04]
They’re like, “You’ve

[00:31:20:04 – 00:31:21:04]
got a glow about you.

[00:31:21:04 – 00:31:22:05]
“You got laid.”

[00:31:22:05 – 00:31:23:09]
I know.

[00:31:23:09 – 00:31:28:12]
It was the same thing

[00:31:28:12 – 00:31:30:23]
when we’d go out, right?

[00:31:30:23 – 00:31:32:05]
And then we were

[00:31:32:05 – 00:31:34:01]
raising children at the time

[00:31:34:01 – 00:31:35:09]
that we were doing this

[00:31:35:09 – 00:31:37:00]
and they were teenagers

[00:31:37:00 – 00:31:38:05]
and they were very

[00:31:38:05 – 00:31:40:02]
aware of what was going on,

[00:31:40:02 – 00:31:42:07]
like around the household and–

[00:31:42:07 – 00:31:43:00]
Right, not specifically

[00:31:43:00 – 00:31:44:03]
the swinging, but yes.

[00:31:44:03 – 00:31:47:25]
No, but they were very keen on noticing

[00:31:47:25 – 00:31:49:27]
how patterns started to change, right?

[00:31:49:27 – 00:31:51:04]
Noisy little bastards.

[00:31:51:04 – 00:31:52:00]
They saw everything.

[00:31:52:00 – 00:31:53:05]
Where you’re going, what you’re doing,

[00:31:53:05 – 00:31:54:05]
why are you dressed like that?

[00:31:54:05 – 00:31:55:12]
How come you’re wearing a long coat?

[00:31:55:12 – 00:31:56:28]
It’s really hot outside.

[00:31:56:28 – 00:31:58:15]
What’s in the bag?

[00:31:58:15 – 00:31:59:23]
Why are you taking a bag?

[00:31:59:23 – 00:32:02:02]
Like, oh my God, all the questions.

[00:32:02:02 – 00:32:04:12]
And so once the questions,

[00:32:04:12 – 00:32:05:22]
we realized they were

[00:32:05:22 – 00:32:07:06]
much smarter than we thought.

[00:32:07:06 – 00:32:09:12]
I’d start sneaking

[00:32:09:12 – 00:32:11:09]
the bag into the trunk,

[00:32:11:09 – 00:32:13:23]
into the car, like hours before.

[00:32:13:23 – 00:32:14:25]
So they didn’t see us

[00:32:14:25 – 00:32:16:12]
leaving with it, right?

[00:32:16:12 – 00:32:18:15]
And then I’d have to, and

[00:32:18:15 – 00:32:19:12]
I wouldn’t wear the coat

[00:32:19:12 – 00:32:21:00]
and I’d change in the car.

[00:32:21:00 – 00:32:23:12]
I’d wear something completely different.

[00:32:23:12 – 00:32:28:15]
Oh my gosh, it was, but it was annoying,

[00:32:28:15 – 00:32:29:22]
but that was exciting

[00:32:29:22 – 00:32:30:17]
because we were like

[00:32:30:17 – 00:32:31:25]
getting away with something.

[00:32:31:25 – 00:32:34:03]
We’re like, dun, dun, dun, dun.

[00:32:34:03 – 00:32:35:15]
We had a secret.

[00:32:35:15 – 00:32:36:24]
We were part of the

[00:32:36:24 – 00:32:38:12]
secret swinger society.

[00:32:38:12 – 00:32:39:27]
I’m giving all like supercharged

[00:32:39:27 – 00:32:41:04]
just by thinking about it,

[00:32:41:04 – 00:32:42:05]
because it was a new sign.

[00:32:42:05 – 00:32:43:13]
And now we’re out and

[00:32:43:13 – 00:32:44:16]
it’s not exciting anymore.

[00:32:44:16 – 00:32:48:25]
Well, so one of the other aspects

[00:32:48:25 – 00:32:49:17]
that I think a lot of

[00:32:49:17 – 00:32:50:15]
people get hooked on

[00:32:50:15 – 00:32:51:27]
are swinger vacations.

[00:32:51:27 – 00:32:56:15]
And depending on, we’ll

[00:32:56:15 – 00:32:57:28]
just pick on them, the resorts.

[00:32:57:28 – 00:33:00:00]
They’re all inclusive.

[00:33:00:00 – 00:33:02:28]
Alcohol is freely flowing.

[00:33:02:28 – 00:33:05:02]
There’s like a

[00:33:05:02 – 00:33:07:06]
critical mass of naked people

[00:33:07:06 – 00:33:08:15]
running around doing

[00:33:08:15 – 00:33:10:04]
naughty secret things.

[00:33:10:04 – 00:33:14:01]
And then there’s pool games, right?

[00:33:14:01 – 00:33:15:12]
Yes, dance parties.

[00:33:15:12 – 00:33:17:12]
It’s like the best vacation ever.

[00:33:17:12 – 00:33:17:27]
Oh yeah.

[00:33:17:27 – 00:33:18:19]
Because you get to be

[00:33:18:19 – 00:33:20:12]
naked with other people.

[00:33:20:12 – 00:33:21:28]
And theme nights and you get to shop

[00:33:21:28 – 00:33:23:18]
for the theme nights ahead of time,

[00:33:23:18 – 00:33:25:17]
which adds to the excitement, I know.

[00:33:25:17 – 00:33:28:00]
Some people get really

[00:33:28:00 – 00:33:29:20]
hooked on that and we have heard,

[00:33:29:20 – 00:33:30:21]
and I don’t know how they afford it,

[00:33:30:21 – 00:33:32:27]
obviously in a totally different tax

[00:33:32:27 – 00:33:33:27]
bracket than we are,

[00:33:33:27 – 00:33:34:28]
but going to like

[00:33:34:28 – 00:33:36:28]
hedonism multiple times a year

[00:33:36:28 – 00:33:38:16]
or desire multiple times a

[00:33:38:16 – 00:33:40:18]
year, that’s fricking great.

[00:33:40:18 – 00:33:46:19]
But are they chasing that high?

[00:33:46:19 – 00:33:47:16]
Are they trying to

[00:33:47:16 – 00:33:49:00]
get back to that feeling

[00:33:49:00 – 00:33:50:12]
of where they were before?

[00:33:50:12 – 00:33:53:00]
And is that what that’s about?

[00:33:53:00 – 00:33:53:16]
I mean, some of it’s

[00:33:53:16 – 00:33:54:16]
the relationships too.

[00:33:54:16 – 00:33:56:15]
Yeah, and not that there’s

[00:33:56:15 – 00:33:57:28]
anything wrong with that.

[00:33:57:28 – 00:34:02:04]
Other than we can’t go, but besides that.

[00:34:02:04 – 00:34:05:28]
And a lot of people will, I’m sure they,

[00:34:05:28 – 00:34:07:12]
well, I’d like to think

[00:34:07:12 – 00:34:08:10]
that they budget for it.

[00:34:08:10 – 00:34:09:15]
That’s the accountant in me thinking

[00:34:09:15 – 00:34:11:02]
that they’re budgeting for that.

[00:34:11:02 – 00:34:13:12]
But a lot of people

[00:34:13:12 – 00:34:14:28]
can’t play in their town.

[00:34:14:28 – 00:34:15:28]
And so that’s what they

[00:34:15:28 – 00:34:17:10]
look forward to twice a year

[00:34:17:10 – 00:34:18:24]
because they have to

[00:34:18:24 – 00:34:20:22]
be out of the country

[00:34:20:22 – 00:34:22:24]
or out of their state to do that.

[00:34:22:24 – 00:34:23:07]
Right.

[00:34:23:07 – 00:34:28:07]
So there are also positive

[00:34:28:07 – 00:34:30:09]
benefits to the relationship

[00:34:30:09 – 00:34:32:19]
where you’re justifying

[00:34:32:19 – 00:34:37:28]
that it’s a good thing.

[00:34:37:28 – 00:34:38:10]
Right.

[00:34:38:10 – 00:34:40:07]
Then there’s that

[00:34:40:07 – 00:34:44:02]
pleasure seeking where you’re,

[00:34:44:02 – 00:34:46:15]
maybe the next event’s gonna be better.

[00:34:46:15 – 00:34:48:05]
And we did that too.

[00:34:48:05 – 00:34:48:16]
Right.

[00:34:48:16 – 00:34:51:06]
Because the events that we were going to

[00:34:51:06 – 00:34:54:05]
in the beginning were just, oh my God.

[00:34:54:05 – 00:34:55:15]
They were a little snoozy.

[00:34:55:15 – 00:34:57:22]
They were so snoozy.

[00:34:57:22 – 00:34:59:07]
We had a couple that were really good,

[00:34:59:07 – 00:35:01:00]
which started us off on that.

[00:35:01:00 – 00:35:02:04]
And then there was like

[00:35:02:04 – 00:35:04:07]
this weird lull in the middle.

[00:35:04:07 – 00:35:04:16]
Yeah.

[00:35:04:16 – 00:35:07:13]
Like the first six months or a year.

[00:35:07:13 – 00:35:08:16]
Honestly, I think

[00:35:08:16 – 00:35:14:22]
because we were, for me,

[00:35:14:22 – 00:35:16:11]
I was so desirous of

[00:35:16:11 – 00:35:17:20]
trying to figure out,

[00:35:17:20 – 00:35:20:16]
what’s going on or

[00:35:20:16 – 00:35:21:28]
why everyone else seemed

[00:35:21:28 – 00:35:23:04]
to have it figured out or

[00:35:23:04 – 00:35:25:02]
how everyone else is doing it

[00:35:25:02 – 00:35:27:04]
or what’s the secret sauce.

[00:35:27:04 – 00:35:27:25]
Right, right.

[00:35:27:25 – 00:35:29:00]
That we just kept going

[00:35:29:00 – 00:35:30:01]
because we kept feeling

[00:35:30:01 – 00:35:31:20]
like we were just failing at it.

[00:35:31:20 – 00:35:32:02]
Yeah.

[00:35:32:02 – 00:35:33:03]
Just like, we’re like.

[00:35:33:03 – 00:35:35:00]
We’re gonna fake it till we make it.

[00:35:35:00 – 00:35:37:12]
Yeah, and so we give ourselves homework.

[00:35:37:12 – 00:35:39:22]
We’re like, we didn’t

[00:35:39:22 – 00:35:40:24]
talk to anybody again.

[00:35:40:24 – 00:35:43:13]
Oh my God, we’re such dorks.

[00:35:43:13 – 00:35:46:07]
And then they were like, okay, well,

[00:35:46:07 – 00:35:47:04]
we gotta give ourselves homework.

[00:35:47:04 – 00:35:49:13]
So this time we’re gonna

[00:35:49:13 – 00:35:50:26]
talk to at least one couple.

[00:35:50:26 – 00:35:53:05]
And then so we would

[00:35:53:05 – 00:35:54:24]
beeline it over to a couple.

[00:35:54:24 – 00:35:56:00]
And then we increased it to

[00:35:56:00 – 00:35:57:24]
three couples every event.

[00:35:57:24 – 00:35:58:24]
Gotta talk to at least

[00:35:58:24 – 00:36:00:09]
three couples every event.

[00:36:00:09 – 00:36:04:02]
And then eventually we got used to it

[00:36:04:02 – 00:36:05:05]
and we got used to

[00:36:05:05 – 00:36:06:09]
seeing some of the same faces.

[00:36:06:09 – 00:36:07:27]
And then we started to feel

[00:36:07:27 – 00:36:09:05]
comfortable in the community.

[00:36:09:05 – 00:36:10:05]
But it took a while.

[00:36:10:05 – 00:36:12:05]
I mean, it took a long time.

[00:36:12:05 – 00:36:14:20]
It was so awkward and it was infuriating

[00:36:14:20 – 00:36:16:10]
because here we are in

[00:36:16:10 – 00:36:18:21]
our forties doing this.

[00:36:18:21 – 00:36:20:07]
I’m starting over essentially.

[00:36:20:07 – 00:36:21:09]
Starting over and I’m like, I

[00:36:21:09 – 00:36:22:22]
feel like a freaking teenager.

[00:36:22:22 – 00:36:24:09]
I’m like, just like, what?

[00:36:24:09 – 00:36:25:13]
It was awkward.

[00:36:25:13 – 00:36:26:02]
Why?

[00:36:26:02 – 00:36:28:05]
I hate this awkwardness.

[00:36:28:05 – 00:36:28:22]
What are we doing?

[00:36:28:22 – 00:36:29:10]
Bleh.

[00:36:29:10 – 00:36:30:24]
How do we talk to

[00:36:30:24 – 00:36:31:20]
people? I’m an adult now.

[00:36:31:20 – 00:36:34:22]
It was just, it was so annoying.

[00:36:34:22 – 00:36:40:20]
Then, did you wanna say something?

[00:36:40:20 – 00:36:41:20]
I know I’m talking a lot.

[00:36:41:20 – 00:36:42:25]
No, no, this is good.

[00:36:42:25 – 00:36:46:22]
I remember those early

[00:36:46:22 – 00:36:48:13]
years with some like,

[00:36:48:13 – 00:36:51:00]
if I’d known then what I know now,

[00:36:51:00 – 00:36:52:06]
maybe we wouldn’t have

[00:36:52:06 – 00:36:53:01]
gone to those parties.

[00:36:53:01 – 00:36:53:15]
Maybe we would have

[00:36:53:15 – 00:36:54:25]
just switched up parties.

[00:36:54:25 – 00:36:56:07]
But at the time that was all

[00:36:56:07 – 00:36:58:02]
that we knew that was going on.

[00:36:58:02 – 00:37:01:28]
But yeah, yeah.

[00:37:01:28 – 00:37:04:10]
Okay, so here’s kind of Ken comments.

[00:37:04:10 – 00:37:06:22]
Yeah.

[00:37:06:22 – 00:37:10:06]
Oh, he did Heto for the first time,

[00:37:10:06 – 00:37:12:04]
oh, three years ago.

[00:37:12:04 – 00:37:14:15]
And that is nuts.

[00:37:14:15 – 00:37:16:01]
It’s like the Jedi

[00:37:16:01 – 00:37:18:04]
final exam for swingers.

[00:37:18:04 – 00:37:20:20]
Nonstop play, it’s awesome.

[00:37:20:20 – 00:37:22:06]
But once a year is enough,

[00:37:22:06 – 00:37:24:01]
even if the money is no object.

[00:37:24:01 – 00:37:25:28]
Yeah, and for those who

[00:37:25:28 – 00:37:27:15]
have not been to hedonism,

[00:37:27:15 – 00:37:30:13]
the comparison that I’ve heard between

[00:37:30:13 – 00:37:32:00]
desire and hedonism,

[00:37:32:00 – 00:37:33:00]
cause we haven’t been to desire,

[00:37:33:00 – 00:37:33:24]
but we haven’t been to Heto,

[00:37:33:24 – 00:37:37:13]
is hedonism is like that

[00:37:37:13 – 00:37:39:02]
party that’s on 11 all the time.

[00:37:39:02 – 00:37:42:01]
Like, it’s the hip play.

[00:37:42:01 – 00:37:43:03]
So if you really want to

[00:37:43:03 – 00:37:44:00]
hook up with other couples,

[00:37:44:00 – 00:37:45:12]
like Heto is the place to go

[00:37:45:12 – 00:37:46:15]
and desire is a little bit

[00:37:46:15 – 00:37:48:19]
more like slow to warm up

[00:37:48:19 – 00:37:49:24]
and a little bit more on

[00:37:49:24 – 00:37:52:06]
the whining and dining aspect

[00:37:52:06 – 00:37:53:13]
and less on the

[00:37:53:13 – 00:37:56:04]
hedonism of the whole thing.

[00:37:56:04 – 00:37:58:00]
Right, and hedonism has

[00:37:58:00 – 00:37:59:09]
a lot of groups that go.

[00:37:59:09 – 00:38:02:06]
So if you can go with a

[00:38:02:06 – 00:38:05:21]
group that fits your preference,

[00:38:05:21 – 00:38:08:11]
then that’s even more fun.

[00:38:08:11 – 00:38:11:00]
Right, even more chance for trouble.

[00:38:11:00 – 00:38:16:10]
I will say you can step away from the go,

[00:38:16:10 – 00:38:17:22]
go, go there as well.

[00:38:17:22 – 00:38:19:11]
There are parts of that

[00:38:19:11 – 00:38:21:01]
resort that are nice and quiet,

[00:38:21:01 – 00:38:24:28]
and you can just rest and

[00:38:24:28 – 00:38:27:15]
recharge and do your own thing,

[00:38:27:15 – 00:38:29:12]
take a down day, that’s

[00:38:29:12 – 00:38:31:00]
super easy to do there.

[00:38:31:00 – 00:38:32:28]
And I did plenty of that

[00:38:32:28 – 00:38:34:15]
because I don’t always

[00:38:34:15 – 00:38:35:19]
like being in the fray.

[00:38:35:19 – 00:38:36:16]
But if you want to be in

[00:38:36:16 – 00:38:38:16]
the fray 24 seven, absolutely.

[00:38:38:16 – 00:38:42:19]
Yeah, and actually this is a good thing.

[00:38:42:19 – 00:38:43:26]
I don’t even think we

[00:38:43:26 – 00:38:44:21]
put it in the outline,

[00:38:44:21 – 00:38:46:04]
but we did talk about it

[00:38:46:04 – 00:38:47:20]
in, oh no, it’s in here

[00:38:47:20 – 00:38:50:15]
towards the seeking the balance.

[00:38:50:15 – 00:38:52:01]
But we haven’t talked about it yet.

[00:38:52:01 – 00:38:54:10]
And that’s this sense of FOMO

[00:38:54:10 – 00:38:57:01]
and that’s this fear of missing out.

[00:38:57:01 – 00:38:57:20]
Oh yeah.

[00:38:57:20 – 00:39:00:12]
Hedonism certainly kicks up FOMO

[00:39:00:12 – 00:39:02:25]
because even if you’re on the,

[00:39:02:25 – 00:39:03:25]
I don’t even think

[00:39:03:25 – 00:39:04:22]
they call this anymore.

[00:39:04:22 – 00:39:05:10]
They used to call it the

[00:39:05:10 – 00:39:06:24]
prude side and the nude side.

[00:39:06:24 – 00:39:08:13]
Yeah, I think they rebranded that.

[00:39:08:13 – 00:39:09:10]
Yeah, I think they got rid of it.

[00:39:09:10 – 00:39:10:09]
Because I think they felt

[00:39:10:09 – 00:39:11:25]
like they were leaving people out

[00:39:11:25 – 00:39:14:11]
or made them feel bad

[00:39:14:11 – 00:39:15:09]
because they were on the

[00:39:15:09 – 00:39:17:10]
non-party side of the island.

[00:39:17:10 – 00:39:21:28]
But let’s say you do

[00:39:21:28 – 00:39:22:27]
decide to go take a nap

[00:39:22:27 – 00:39:25:27]
or you do decide to take it down a notch

[00:39:25:27 – 00:39:27:04]
because you were up all night

[00:39:27:04 – 00:39:28:15]
and you were drinking and dancing

[00:39:28:15 – 00:39:29:22]
and doing all the fun stuff.

[00:39:29:22 – 00:39:32:12]
You hear the party

[00:39:32:12 – 00:39:33:25]
going on or you see it,

[00:39:33:25 – 00:39:35:24]
you see all the people

[00:39:35:24 – 00:39:38:11]
going there and you’re like,

[00:39:38:11 – 00:39:39:21]
“Oh man, I’m missing out.

[00:39:39:21 – 00:39:40:20]
There’s gotta be, there’s

[00:39:40:20 – 00:39:42:19]
something great going on right now

[00:39:42:19 – 00:39:43:26]
and I’m missing it.”

[00:39:43:26 – 00:39:48:17]
So one of the other addictive things

[00:39:48:17 – 00:39:51:19]
is you have this fear of missing out on

[00:39:51:19 – 00:39:52:20]
that next experience

[00:39:52:20 – 00:39:55:26]
or that that couple that’s

[00:39:55:26 – 00:39:57:03]
potentially gonna get away

[00:39:57:03 – 00:39:59:20]
that you gotta get them while it’s good

[00:39:59:20 – 00:40:01:21]
because otherwise you’re gonna miss out

[00:40:01:21 – 00:40:02:19]
and they’re gonna be gone.

[00:40:02:19 – 00:40:03:24]
And we definitely felt

[00:40:03:24 – 00:40:05:13]
that a number of times.

[00:40:05:13 – 00:40:08:19]
Yeah, and I will feel FOMO very strongly

[00:40:08:19 – 00:40:10:20]
when one of our couple

[00:40:10:20 – 00:40:13:06]
friends is going on one of those,

[00:40:13:06 – 00:40:14:19]
a fun trip.

[00:40:14:19 – 00:40:18:13]
And I’m like, “Dang it, I can’t go.”

[00:40:18:13 – 00:40:22:13]
Or, “I really wanna go but I can’t.”

[00:40:22:13 – 00:40:24:10]
And then they’re there and I’m like,

[00:40:24:10 – 00:40:28:00]
“Text me pictures, keep me up to date.”

[00:40:28:00 – 00:40:31:09]
Because I have to live through them.

[00:40:31:09 – 00:40:33:18]
For sure, for sure.

[00:40:33:18 – 00:40:34:18]
Yeah, I know.

[00:40:34:18 – 00:40:37:24]
I don’t know why that affects me so much.

[00:40:37:24 – 00:40:39:18]
Usually it affects me when

[00:40:39:18 – 00:40:42:02]
I’m not having enough fun

[00:40:42:02 – 00:40:43:10]
in my own life.

[00:40:43:10 – 00:40:46:15]
If my life, my pie of life has gotten a

[00:40:46:15 – 00:40:47:11]
little out of balance

[00:40:47:11 – 00:40:50:02]
and I need to take more time for me.

[00:40:50:02 – 00:40:53:07]
That’s usually when I feel FOMO more

[00:40:53:07 – 00:40:56:24]
because I’m missing more of just that.

[00:40:56:24 – 00:40:58:06]
The escape.

[00:40:58:06 – 00:40:59:00]
Yeah.

[00:40:59:00 – 00:41:01:18]
The escape of the grind,

[00:41:01:18 – 00:41:04:04]
the day in and day out grind of things.

[00:41:04:04 – 00:41:05:22]
Tell me about it.

[00:41:05:22 – 00:41:12:04]
Part of my journey in the lifestyle was

[00:41:12:04 – 00:41:16:24]
when we came out with our faces,

[00:41:16:24 – 00:41:21:09]
it felt like this imposter syndrome

[00:41:21:09 – 00:41:24:17]
because we were getting compliments,

[00:41:24:17 – 00:41:25:26]
oh my God, I love your

[00:41:25:26 – 00:41:27:02]
podcast, blah, blah, blah.

[00:41:27:02 – 00:41:29:01]
We’re not really anybody, we’re just,

[00:41:29:01 – 00:41:30:05]
we just sit behind a

[00:41:30:05 – 00:41:31:19]
microphone and we just do this thing.

[00:41:31:19 – 00:41:32:11]
Right.

[00:41:32:11 – 00:41:36:00]
But it was great

[00:41:36:00 – 00:41:38:05]
because we got good feedback

[00:41:38:05 – 00:41:40:19]
which kept us motivated,

[00:41:40:19 – 00:41:43:16]
but then it was weird

[00:41:43:16 – 00:41:44:28]
because it was like this weird

[00:41:44:28 – 00:41:49:17]
dichotomy and then the

[00:41:49:17 – 00:41:52:11]
novelty of kind of that

[00:41:52:11 – 00:41:57:10]
wore off and not sure

[00:41:57:10 – 00:41:58:09]
really where I’m going with this.

[00:41:58:09 – 00:42:00:04]
(laughing)

[00:42:00:04 – 00:42:03:20]
My outline is sucking

[00:42:03:20 – 00:42:05:04]
right now at this point.

[00:42:05:04 – 00:42:08:00]
Well, I’ll pitch in a little bit here

[00:42:08:00 – 00:42:09:25]
because I think we

[00:42:09:25 – 00:42:11:05]
definitely got to a point

[00:42:11:05 – 00:42:13:22]
where the newness, the excitement,

[00:42:13:22 – 00:42:15:18]
that kind of the novelty of being secret

[00:42:15:18 – 00:42:17:19]
had gone away, right?

[00:42:17:19 – 00:42:18:11]
Because we’d come out.

[00:42:18:11 – 00:42:20:05]
So the secrecy had gone away.

[00:42:20:05 – 00:42:21:22]
So we lost a little bit

[00:42:21:22 – 00:42:24:01]
of that dopamine rush.

[00:42:24:01 – 00:42:26:21]
But then there was also a weird thing

[00:42:26:21 – 00:42:27:28]
that happened right around that time

[00:42:27:28 – 00:42:29:09]
where we decided that

[00:42:29:09 – 00:42:30:07]
we were going to be,

[00:42:30:07 – 00:42:31:13]
we were going to treat

[00:42:31:13 – 00:42:32:15]
it more like a business.

[00:42:32:15 – 00:42:33:15]
The podcast.

[00:42:33:15 – 00:42:34:06]
The podcast.

[00:42:34:06 – 00:42:34:20]
Right.

[00:42:34:20 – 00:42:37:05]
And because of that, it

[00:42:37:05 – 00:42:38:07]
became a lot more serious

[00:42:38:07 – 00:42:39:16]
and we wanted to get more listeners

[00:42:39:16 – 00:42:41:25]
and we wanted to like get

[00:42:41:25 – 00:42:43:05]
followers on social media

[00:42:43:05 – 00:42:44:12]
and do that whole thing.

[00:42:44:12 – 00:42:46:07]
Well, and because we

[00:42:46:07 – 00:42:47:26]
wanted to reach more people

[00:42:47:26 – 00:42:51:10]
because being a podcaster

[00:42:51:10 – 00:42:53:05]
and advertising a podcast

[00:42:53:05 – 00:42:54:28]
is extremely difficult.

[00:42:54:28 – 00:42:56:25]
A lot of people don’t even know what a

[00:42:56:25 – 00:42:58:10]
podcast is right now.

[00:42:58:10 – 00:43:01:15]
So you have to advertise it.

[00:43:01:15 – 00:43:03:26]
And I hate advertising.

[00:43:03:26 – 00:43:05:07]
Well, yeah.

[00:43:05:07 – 00:43:06:28]
And that became, I think

[00:43:06:28 – 00:43:08:17]
the biggest kind of piece

[00:43:08:17 – 00:43:09:21]
of imposter syndrome for

[00:43:09:21 – 00:43:13:16]
us was it felt uncomfortable

[00:43:13:16 – 00:43:17:03]
to market and to push the podcast.

[00:43:17:03 – 00:43:18:04]
Because we did it for fun.

[00:43:18:04 – 00:43:19:17]
We did it to help other

[00:43:19:17 – 00:43:21:02]
people and to communicate,

[00:43:21:02 – 00:43:23:11]
you know, all of these

[00:43:23:11 – 00:43:25:02]
crash and burn scenarios

[00:43:25:02 – 00:43:27:04]
that we’d been through and the awkward

[00:43:27:04 – 00:43:29:04]
kind of teenage years

[00:43:29:04 – 00:43:30:25]
of starting as a swinger, so to speak.

[00:43:30:25 – 00:43:31:01]
Right.

[00:43:31:01 – 00:43:35:07]
And once we’d kind of

[00:43:35:07 – 00:43:37:25]
like got that train rolling,

[00:43:37:25 – 00:43:40:28]
it kind of got away from us a little bit.

[00:43:40:28 – 00:43:42:00]
And I think that’s where

[00:43:42:00 – 00:43:46:15]
the novelty of the whole thing

[00:43:46:15 – 00:43:48:07]
for us had kind of worn off.

[00:43:48:07 – 00:43:50:15]
And that’s where we’ve

[00:43:50:15 – 00:43:51:13]
tried to like reinvent

[00:43:51:13 – 00:43:54:09]
and change the podcast so

[00:43:54:09 – 00:43:55:24]
that it was fun and novel

[00:43:55:24 – 00:43:57:16]
and interesting for us again.

[00:43:57:16 – 00:43:58:16]
Yeah.

[00:43:58:16 – 00:44:02:15]
And then, well, we are

[00:44:02:15 – 00:44:04:24]
in year like 11 or 12 now.

[00:44:04:24 – 00:44:06:28]
And the novelty of

[00:44:06:28 – 00:44:09:26]
swinging has dissipated.

[00:44:09:26 – 00:44:12:13]
Yeah, it’s not as new and exciting

[00:44:12:13 – 00:44:14:10]
as it used to be for us, for sure.

[00:44:14:10 – 00:44:20:04]
And so the focus now has changed for us.

[00:44:20:04 – 00:44:23:16]
The focus really is not so

[00:44:23:16 – 00:44:29:21]
much on the sex aspect of it.

[00:44:29:21 – 00:44:32:05]
It’s more focused on the community

[00:44:32:05 – 00:44:34:04]
and building those relationships

[00:44:34:04 – 00:44:37:00]
and having great fun

[00:44:37:00 – 00:44:40:07]
with people, conversations,

[00:44:40:07 – 00:44:42:00]
maybe traveling with them.

[00:44:42:00 – 00:44:42:21]
We’ve got friends that

[00:44:42:21 – 00:44:43:25]
we travel with sometimes.

[00:44:43:25 – 00:44:47:02]
And it’s really nice

[00:44:47:02 – 00:44:49:20]
because you can be very open

[00:44:49:20 – 00:44:51:21]
with those individuals

[00:44:51:21 – 00:44:54:07]
and you feel more complete.

[00:44:54:07 – 00:44:54:24]
Right.

[00:44:54:24 – 00:44:56:24]
You’re not hiding anything.

[00:44:56:24 – 00:44:58:05]
Nothing’s a secret.

[00:44:58:05 – 00:45:00:15]
You just, it’s all out there.

[00:45:00:15 – 00:45:02:28]
And it’s very freeing.

[00:45:02:28 – 00:45:03:28]
It’s comfortable.

[00:45:03:28 – 00:45:06:26]
And so it’s nice to be able to do that.

[00:45:06:26 – 00:45:11:26]
So it’s interesting how

[00:45:11:26 – 00:45:12:16]
it’s shifted over time.

[00:45:12:16 – 00:45:18:26]
Now, will we make, will it shift again?

[00:45:18:26 – 00:45:19:28]
I’m sure it will.

[00:45:19:28 – 00:45:21:02]
Well, we just heard

[00:45:21:02 – 00:45:22:10]
about a fantastic party

[00:45:22:10 – 00:45:24:00]
that had us super excited

[00:45:24:00 – 00:45:26:12]
and tons of FOMO just hit us.

[00:45:26:12 – 00:45:28:25]
So, holy crap.

[00:45:28:25 – 00:45:30:06]
Okay, so let’s tell them.

[00:45:30:06 – 00:45:30:22]
We wanna go.

[00:45:30:22 – 00:45:33:19]
So we’re in the Swinger Mastermind Group.

[00:45:33:19 – 00:45:34:04]
It’s a bunch of

[00:45:34:04 – 00:45:35:07]
promoters getting together

[00:45:35:07 – 00:45:36:13]
and event coordinators

[00:45:36:13 – 00:45:38:11]
and people in that industry.

[00:45:38:11 – 00:45:39:21]
And we all support one

[00:45:39:21 – 00:45:40:22]
another and share ideas.

[00:45:40:22 – 00:45:44:26]
So, what are the promoters in there?

[00:45:44:26 – 00:45:47:19]
Does a event every summer

[00:45:47:19 – 00:45:50:13]
up to what, 1800 people?

[00:45:50:13 – 00:45:51:26]
Yeah, he’s trying to get,

[00:45:51:26 – 00:45:52:21]
he thinks they’re gonna

[00:45:52:21 – 00:45:54:16]
be up to 1800 this year.

[00:45:54:16 – 00:45:58:15]
In Oklahoma, on 120 acres of land,

[00:45:58:15 – 00:46:00:15]
he’s got security, he’s got

[00:46:00:15 – 00:46:03:24]
food trucks, DJs, vendors,

[00:46:03:24 – 00:46:06:01]
bathrooms, showers.

[00:46:06:01 – 00:46:07:10]
Hot air balloons.

[00:46:07:10 – 00:46:08:16]
Hot air balloons.

[00:46:08:16 – 00:46:11:00]
You could go naked in a hot air balloon.

[00:46:11:00 – 00:46:12:22]
What is not to love about that?

[00:46:12:22 – 00:46:14:10]
You could have sex in a hot air balloon.

[00:46:14:10 – 00:46:15:28]
I will say it is very,

[00:46:15:28 – 00:46:19:12]
hot air balloons can be pretty dangerous.

[00:46:19:12 – 00:46:20:24]
I’ve ridden in one, the

[00:46:20:24 – 00:46:22:00]
landings are pretty rough.

[00:46:22:00 – 00:46:24:15]
So if you’re naked, probably not.

[00:46:24:15 – 00:46:27:00]
Wear a cup.

[00:46:27:00 – 00:46:29:16]
Bring some support.

[00:46:29:16 – 00:46:30:11]
Don’t get caught on the basket.

[00:46:30:11 – 00:46:31:28]
Yeah, don’t, no.

[00:46:31:28 – 00:46:37:02]
Yes, and so it’s camping.

[00:46:37:02 – 00:46:37:19]
So you’re bringing your

[00:46:37:19 – 00:46:38:26]
RV, you bring your tent,

[00:46:38:26 – 00:46:40:11]
whatever you wanna stay in.

[00:46:40:11 – 00:46:42:00]
And I think it’s only for

[00:46:42:00 – 00:46:43:18]
what, three days, maybe four.

[00:46:43:18 – 00:46:46:20]
Yeah, I didn’t get all the details on it,

[00:46:46:20 – 00:46:49:16]
but just how many

[00:46:49:16 – 00:46:50:18]
people were gonna be there

[00:46:50:18 – 00:46:52:01]
and the kinds of fun

[00:46:52:01 – 00:46:53:07]
things that they were doing.

[00:46:53:07 – 00:46:53:15]
Yeah.

[00:46:53:15 – 00:46:56:17]
Some of the contests and fun activities

[00:46:56:17 – 00:46:57:18]
that he was describing.

[00:46:57:18 – 00:47:01:00]
It just sounds like a hoot.

[00:47:01:00 – 00:47:04:00]
Yeah, he kinda described it like,

[00:47:04:00 – 00:47:05:24]
kinda like a burner event,

[00:47:05:24 – 00:47:08:22]
like Burning Man with swinging.

[00:47:08:22 – 00:47:10:17]
And it’s kind of a mashup.

[00:47:10:17 – 00:47:11:10]
Yeah.

[00:47:11:10 – 00:47:12:01]
So.

[00:47:12:01 – 00:47:14:10]
Yeah, those kinds of experiences,

[00:47:14:10 – 00:47:15:13]
which are just like,

[00:47:15:13 – 00:47:19:12]
sensory, super exciting.

[00:47:19:12 – 00:47:22:25]
Now you can see how this kind of fits in

[00:47:22:25 – 00:47:24:07]
with this episode, right?

[00:47:24:07 – 00:47:24:15]
Yeah.

[00:47:24:15 – 00:47:27:12]
I’m hearing all of these really exciting,

[00:47:27:12 – 00:47:29:09]
thrilling things going on.

[00:47:29:09 – 00:47:30:10]
Novel things that

[00:47:30:10 – 00:47:31:19]
I’ve never tried before,

[00:47:31:19 – 00:47:33:07]
like having sex in a hot air balloon.

[00:47:33:07 – 00:47:34:19]
Never done that before.

[00:47:34:19 – 00:47:35:10]
Right.

[00:47:35:10 – 00:47:37:22]
Absolutely, now it is on my bucket list,

[00:47:37:22 – 00:47:39:00]
which is one of those

[00:47:39:00 – 00:47:39:24]
things where it’s like,

[00:47:39:24 – 00:47:41:00]
damn, I didn’t even

[00:47:41:00 – 00:47:42:06]
know that was a thing.

[00:47:42:06 – 00:47:44:03]
Now I have to do it.

[00:47:44:03 – 00:47:44:18]
Right?

[00:47:44:18 – 00:47:45:05]
Oh my God.

[00:47:45:05 – 00:47:46:00]
I know.

[00:47:46:00 – 00:47:47:10]
And the theme is gonna

[00:47:47:10 – 00:47:49:15]
be like Summer of Love,

[00:47:49:15 – 00:47:52:09]
so 60s, flower power,

[00:47:52:09 – 00:47:54:24]
all kinds of fun stuff.

[00:47:54:24 – 00:47:56:20]
So Ed and I were like,

[00:47:56:20 – 00:47:58:00]
right before the episode,

[00:47:58:00 – 00:47:59:17]
we’re like, oh my God,

[00:47:59:17 – 00:48:00:18]
maybe we should try and

[00:48:00:18 – 00:48:01:17]
make this event happen.

[00:48:01:17 – 00:48:03:17]
(laughs) You know, maybe we

[00:48:03:17 – 00:48:04:12]
could get some cheap tickets

[00:48:04:12 – 00:48:05:00]
to Oklahoma.

[00:48:05:00 – 00:48:06:04]
Right.

[00:48:06:04 – 00:48:07:04]
And I’ll fly down there.

[00:48:07:04 – 00:48:10:04]
And then what was my second thought?

[00:48:10:04 – 00:48:12:04]
My very second thought was,

[00:48:12:04 – 00:48:15:02]
I’m not gonna get any sleep.

[00:48:15:02 – 00:48:18:03]
Yeah, yeah, which is a whole other thing.

[00:48:18:03 – 00:48:19:26]
Because we’re gonna be in a tent

[00:48:19:26 – 00:48:23:00]
and I’m not gonna get any sleep.

[00:48:23:00 – 00:48:24:07]
Oh!

[00:48:24:07 – 00:48:28:02]
Hotel, there are hotels

[00:48:28:02 – 00:48:29:24]
nearby and they have shuttles

[00:48:29:24 – 00:48:31:22]
that will shuttle you back and forth.

[00:48:31:22 – 00:48:33:20]
Maybe that’s what we do.

[00:48:33:20 – 00:48:40:05]
Or we like rent a truck or something

[00:48:40:05 – 00:48:41:11]
when we sleep in the back

[00:48:41:11 – 00:48:42:26]
and we take our new tent thing.

[00:48:42:26 – 00:48:43:10]
Oh!

[00:48:43:10 – 00:48:45:28]
But still, if there’s a

[00:48:45:28 – 00:48:47:12]
big party going on around,

[00:48:47:12 – 00:48:48:09]
the FOMO kicks in

[00:48:48:09 – 00:48:49:13]
really hard when you hear

[00:48:49:13 – 00:48:49:16]
the

[00:48:49:16 – 00:48:50:24]
(grunting)

[00:48:50:24 – 00:48:51:20]
going on.

[00:48:51:20 – 00:48:52:20]
So I don’t know.

[00:48:52:20 – 00:48:55:00]
Well, we’ll discuss that.

[00:48:55:00 – 00:48:56:00]
Yeah.

[00:48:56:00 – 00:48:57:01]
There’s a hunter in the

[00:48:57:01 – 00:48:57:28]
blue, there might be an alien.

[00:48:57:28 – 00:49:01:17]
Here are the real life discussions

[00:49:01:17 – 00:49:03:02]
of what we’re talking about.

[00:49:03:02 – 00:49:04:02]
Because now I’m thinking,

[00:49:04:02 – 00:49:05:24]
maybe I do wanna go with the hotel route

[00:49:05:24 – 00:49:06:24]
because I can separate

[00:49:06:24 – 00:49:09:09]
myself from the constant stimulus

[00:49:09:09 – 00:49:11:16]
because I do need my downtime.

[00:49:11:16 – 00:49:12:19]
Right, pretty tight.

[00:49:12:19 – 00:49:15:05]
Because I get too overstimulated,

[00:49:15:05 – 00:49:17:21]
so I have to oo-saw and

[00:49:17:21 – 00:49:20:00]
then I can go and jump back in.

[00:49:20:00 – 00:49:21:04]
So maybe the hotel would

[00:49:21:04 – 00:49:22:26]
be great, then I come back.

[00:49:22:26 – 00:49:24:06]
We’ll see.

[00:49:24:06 – 00:49:25:24]
We’ll see.

[00:49:25:24 – 00:49:29:02]
But you do miss a lot of connections

[00:49:29:02 – 00:49:32:06]
when you kind of remove and come back

[00:49:32:06 – 00:49:33:07]
and you remove yourself.

[00:49:33:07 – 00:49:34:24]
Yeah, we’ve definitely

[00:49:34:24 – 00:49:36:12]
experienced that before.

[00:49:36:12 – 00:49:38:28]
Nice being immersed.

[00:49:38:28 – 00:49:39:24]
Yes.

[00:49:39:24 – 00:49:40:24]
I know.

[00:49:40:24 – 00:49:43:09]
So we’ll see.

[00:49:43:09 – 00:49:44:26]
(laughing)

[00:49:44:26 – 00:49:46:02]
We will see.

[00:49:46:02 – 00:49:48:10]
A news thing we haven’t tried yet.

[00:49:48:10 – 00:49:53:13]
So that brings us to seeking balance.

[00:49:53:13 – 00:49:53:26]
Yes.

[00:49:53:26 – 00:49:56:11]
Seeking balance to the pleasure paradox.

[00:49:56:11 – 00:49:59:21]
Honesty, if you feel like

[00:49:59:21 – 00:50:01:02]
you have an addiction to it

[00:50:01:02 – 00:50:05:27]
and your finances are running really low

[00:50:05:27 – 00:50:08:09]
because you’re out every weekend.

[00:50:08:09 – 00:50:10:00]
You’ve been to Hito four times this year.

[00:50:10:00 – 00:50:10:15]
Right.

[00:50:10:15 – 00:50:14:00]
Maybe you have some honesty towards that.

[00:50:14:00 – 00:50:16:02]
Spread out the fun.

[00:50:16:02 – 00:50:19:01]
Try to consciously spread that out.

[00:50:19:01 – 00:50:22:13]
Make sure your pie is more balanced.

[00:50:22:13 – 00:50:24:13]
Entertainment pie is balanced.

[00:50:24:13 – 00:50:26:09]
You’ve got vanilla life.

[00:50:26:09 – 00:50:28:05]
Do some vanilla travel

[00:50:28:05 – 00:50:29:28]
along with your swing or travel.

[00:50:29:28 – 00:50:31:25]
Yes. Don’t make it all fun.

[00:50:31:25 – 00:50:32:10]
Yes.

[00:50:32:10 – 00:50:34:05]
I mean, vacation should be fun too,

[00:50:34:05 – 00:50:35:26]
but not that kind of fun.

[00:50:35:26 – 00:50:40:27]
And then take breaks if you need to.

[00:50:40:27 – 00:50:43:15]
Remember that normal is okay.

[00:50:43:15 – 00:50:46:13]
Your lifestyle versus hobby.

[00:50:46:13 – 00:50:47:04]
Right.

[00:50:47:04 – 00:50:49:20]
We did an episode on

[00:50:49:20 – 00:50:50:17]
that last week, right?

[00:50:50:17 – 00:50:51:07]
Yeah, yeah.

[00:50:51:07 – 00:50:54:13]
We kind of view it.

[00:50:54:13 – 00:50:58:15]
We think that we’ve done both.

[00:50:58:15 – 00:51:00:02]
In the beginning, it was more of a hobby.

[00:51:00:02 – 00:51:00:15]
We just kind of

[00:51:00:15 – 00:51:02:07]
dabbled, do, do, do, right?

[00:51:02:07 – 00:51:04:25]
And then it became more of

[00:51:04:25 – 00:51:07:05]
something that was all the time.

[00:51:07:05 – 00:51:08:25]
Everything was that focus.

[00:51:08:25 – 00:51:11:26]
And now we’re probably more

[00:51:11:26 – 00:51:13:07]
in the hobby aspect of it.

[00:51:13:07 – 00:51:14:01]
It’s a little different

[00:51:14:01 – 00:51:15:20]
because this has become

[00:51:15:20 – 00:51:18:01]
more of a business for us.

[00:51:18:01 – 00:51:21:03]
So it’s part of our, it’s

[00:51:21:03 – 00:51:23:11]
our part-time job, basically,

[00:51:23:11 – 00:51:24:10]
that we don’t get paid for.

[00:51:24:10 – 00:51:27:22]
Because it requires a great deal of work.

[00:51:27:22 – 00:51:29:20]
And I think one of

[00:51:29:20 – 00:51:30:24]
the other aspects that,

[00:51:30:24 – 00:51:32:17]
and this plays into the social media

[00:51:32:17 – 00:51:33:11]
and a lot of the other stuff

[00:51:33:11 – 00:51:34:15]
that we were talking about,

[00:51:34:15 – 00:51:35:15]
but I think it also

[00:51:35:15 – 00:51:36:21]
applies in the lifestyle

[00:51:36:21 – 00:51:37:26]
and that’s don’t compare.

[00:51:37:26 – 00:51:42:03]
So someone isn’t having more fun than you

[00:51:42:03 – 00:51:44:19]
and trying to have that comparison.

[00:51:44:19 – 00:51:46:10]
And this gets really hard,

[00:51:46:10 – 00:51:46:25]
especially when you

[00:51:46:25 – 00:51:47:19]
start talking about sex

[00:51:47:19 – 00:51:51:09]
and the level of, you know, how many

[00:51:51:09 – 00:51:52:12]
orgasms she’s having

[00:51:52:12 – 00:51:53:06]
versus how many your

[00:51:53:06 – 00:51:54:12]
habits that’s happened

[00:51:54:12 – 00:51:54:26]
or how many you’re having.

[00:51:54:26 – 00:51:56:24]
Yeah, he’s doing better job

[00:51:56:24 – 00:51:58:03]
on this and that or whatever,

[00:51:58:03 – 00:51:59:11]
or they’re having more fun.

[00:51:59:11 – 00:52:00:06]
Or your husband’s having

[00:52:00:06 – 00:52:01:17]
more fun with this other one.

[00:52:01:17 – 00:52:03:28]
Or they’ve got it all figured out

[00:52:03:28 – 00:52:05:15]
and we don’t have it figured out

[00:52:05:15 – 00:52:06:24]
and I don’t understand what’s wrong.

[00:52:06:24 – 00:52:09:11]
That was always my thing.

[00:52:09:11 – 00:52:11:17]
I was like, why don’t we have it?

[00:52:11:17 – 00:52:13:18]
Why don’t we have this figured out?

[00:52:13:18 – 00:52:14:12]
Why is it so?

[00:52:14:12 – 00:52:17:00]
Because it’s hard, because it’s life.

[00:52:17:00 – 00:52:19:05]
It’s real life and there’s feelings and

[00:52:19:05 – 00:52:20:19]
there’s stuff going on.

[00:52:20:19 – 00:52:22:13]
And it’s messy and you’re coordinating.

[00:52:22:13 – 00:52:25:11]
And I was gonna say that

[00:52:25:11 – 00:52:26:20]
this honesty towards addiction

[00:52:26:20 – 00:52:28:28]
really comes down to kind of

[00:52:28:28 – 00:52:31:00]
mindfulness and introspection.

[00:52:31:00 – 00:52:33:07]
And I think it’s really important

[00:52:33:07 – 00:52:35:25]
to kind of take a step

[00:52:35:25 – 00:52:36:26]
back from things sometimes

[00:52:36:26 – 00:52:38:15]
and really think about

[00:52:38:15 – 00:52:40:06]
why am I having the feelings

[00:52:40:06 – 00:52:41:01]
that I’m having or

[00:52:41:01 – 00:52:43:15]
why do I feel compelled

[00:52:43:15 – 00:52:46:00]
to always find the next event?

[00:52:46:00 – 00:52:47:11]
Yeah.

[00:52:47:11 – 00:52:49:26]
You know, there’s some

[00:52:49:26 – 00:52:52:04]
health, mental health

[00:52:52:04 – 00:52:54:05]
in taking a step back

[00:52:54:05 – 00:52:55:10]
from things, as you said,

[00:52:55:10 – 00:52:58:24]
and really reassessing occasionally

[00:52:58:24 – 00:53:01:28]
and having that healthy perspective.

[00:53:01:28 – 00:53:03:16]
And we did.

[00:53:03:16 – 00:53:05:19]
I put the brakes on at one point

[00:53:05:19 – 00:53:08:07]
and we took about an eight month break.

[00:53:08:07 – 00:53:09:03]
Sure, yeah.

[00:53:09:03 – 00:53:11:22]
Because I was just so

[00:53:11:22 – 00:53:14:26]
tired of trying to figure out

[00:53:14:26 – 00:53:16:19]
the swinging lifestyle

[00:53:16:19 – 00:53:18:10]
and figure out dating

[00:53:18:10 – 00:53:20:15]
and figuring out couples

[00:53:20:15 – 00:53:22:10]
and figuring out protocol.

[00:53:22:10 – 00:53:25:01]
And there’s just so

[00:53:25:01 – 00:53:27:01]
many things to figure out

[00:53:27:01 – 00:53:30:20]
that it just, my brain was full.

[00:53:30:20 – 00:53:30:28]
Right.

[00:53:30:28 – 00:53:35:13]
And I just needed to not think about it.

[00:53:35:13 – 00:53:39:19]
So what are some ways

[00:53:39:19 – 00:53:41:10]
that people can kind of

[00:53:41:10 – 00:53:42:09]
like re-center

[00:53:42:09 – 00:53:44:09]
themselves or ground themselves

[00:53:44:09 – 00:53:47:15]
that would be helpful for this,

[00:53:47:15 – 00:53:49:15]
to kind of take a

[00:53:49:15 – 00:53:50:24]
step back from the phones

[00:53:50:24 – 00:53:53:00]
and the events and the parties

[00:53:53:00 – 00:53:54:17]
and all of the dopamine

[00:53:54:17 – 00:53:55:26]
stuff that’s going on?

[00:53:55:26 – 00:53:56:19]
Mm-hmm.

[00:53:56:19 – 00:53:58:22]
I would say just step

[00:53:58:22 – 00:53:59:21]
away from the lifestyle

[00:53:59:21 – 00:54:00:15]
for a little bit.

[00:54:00:15 – 00:54:04:00]
Yoga, walking, exercise

[00:54:04:00 – 00:54:05:17]
has always been my go-to.

[00:54:05:17 – 00:54:05:24]
Yeah.

[00:54:05:24 – 00:54:08:06]
It really, really does help.

[00:54:08:06 – 00:54:10:07]
Meditation, if that’s what you’re into.

[00:54:10:07 – 00:54:12:24]
Going backpacking out in the woods

[00:54:12:24 – 00:54:17:04]
and relaxing and just not having stuff.

[00:54:17:04 – 00:54:17:28]
Mm-hmm.

[00:54:17:28 – 00:54:19:20]
And when you’re out backpacking,

[00:54:19:20 – 00:54:20:27]
you can’t be on your phones,

[00:54:20:27 – 00:54:21:28]
you can’t be checking for events,

[00:54:21:28 – 00:54:24:10]
you can’t be seeing how

[00:54:24:10 – 00:54:26:16]
well the last episode did,

[00:54:26:16 – 00:54:28:00]
all of that kind of stuff

[00:54:28:00 – 00:54:30:10]
that I get caught up in.

[00:54:30:10 – 00:54:31:15]
Yeah, I wouldn’t even

[00:54:31:15 – 00:54:32:19]
say go to a meet and greet

[00:54:32:19 – 00:54:36:24]
unless you’re immune to FOMO

[00:54:36:24 – 00:54:38:25]
because if you’re not a meet and greet,

[00:54:38:25 – 00:54:39:21]
you’re gonna find someone

[00:54:39:21 – 00:54:41:04]
that’s going to some new party

[00:54:41:04 – 00:54:41:24]
that you hadn’t heard

[00:54:41:24 – 00:54:42:17]
about and you’d be like,

[00:54:42:17 – 00:54:44:12]
“What? I wanna know.”

[00:54:44:12 – 00:54:45:21]
Or some new telegram

[00:54:45:21 – 00:54:47:07]
chat that you’re not in.

[00:54:47:07 – 00:54:48:20]
And it’s like, “Oh my

[00:54:48:20 – 00:54:51:10]
God, oh, I feel so left out

[00:54:51:10 – 00:54:53:07]
because I’m not in that telegram chat.”

[00:54:53:07 – 00:54:56:02]
And then, yeah, it’s torture.

[00:54:56:02 – 00:54:58:19]
So just wait it out.

[00:54:58:19 – 00:55:01:28]
Wait out this dopamine.

[00:55:01:28 – 00:55:06:00]
I let your body kind of settle back down

[00:55:06:00 – 00:55:09:15]
and your brain will naturally strive

[00:55:09:15 – 00:55:12:09]
to reach that homeostasis.

[00:55:12:09 – 00:55:15:17]
Yeah, and kind of a bonus tip for this,

[00:55:15:17 – 00:55:17:00]
and this isn’t in the episode,

[00:55:17:00 – 00:55:17:19]
but it kind of plays

[00:55:17:19 – 00:55:18:17]
on a lot of this stuff

[00:55:18:17 – 00:55:20:26]
and that’s pace yourself, right?

[00:55:20:26 – 00:55:24:19]
Like if you’re going at it nonstop

[00:55:24:19 – 00:55:26:00]
to the point where you’re

[00:55:26:00 – 00:55:27:13]
probably gonna burn out,

[00:55:27:13 – 00:55:32:05]
maybe just go to a few less events,

[00:55:32:05 – 00:55:34:17]
maybe not go to every meet and greet

[00:55:34:17 – 00:55:36:05]
that happens to come up.

[00:55:36:05 – 00:55:39:16]
Give yourself that break

[00:55:39:16 – 00:55:41:05]
and kind of meter it out

[00:55:41:05 – 00:55:42:05]
a little bit so that you

[00:55:42:05 – 00:55:44:04]
can kind of have high moments

[00:55:44:04 – 00:55:45:10]
and then you can kind of,

[00:55:45:10 – 00:55:47:02]
“Oh yeah, we had such a

[00:55:47:02 – 00:55:48:01]
good time last weekend.

[00:55:48:01 – 00:55:49:10]
It was so much fun.”

[00:55:49:10 – 00:55:52:01]
Live in those feelings for a little bit

[00:55:52:01 – 00:55:54:01]
and the memory of it instead of trying

[00:55:54:01 – 00:55:54:28]
to get the next one

[00:55:54:28 – 00:55:56:26]
going and kick it off again.

[00:55:56:26 – 00:56:00:24]
Yeah, and guaranteed when people are,

[00:56:00:24 – 00:56:03:25]
they tell you, “Oh, oh

[00:56:03:25 – 00:56:06:26]
yeah, we have like 20 friends

[00:56:06:26 – 00:56:08:05]
and we all travel together.”

[00:56:08:05 – 00:56:10:04]
And you’re like, “What?”

[00:56:10:04 – 00:56:13:10]
“Yeah, I wish I had that.”

[00:56:13:10 – 00:56:16:02]
I call bullshit.

[00:56:16:02 – 00:56:18:00]
It’s bullshit.

[00:56:18:00 – 00:56:19:24]
It’s not true.

[00:56:19:24 – 00:56:23:00]
Travel is to the local

[00:56:23:00 – 00:56:25:28]
club and it’s two friends.

[00:56:25:28 – 00:56:29:01]
It’s not real, like 100%.

[00:56:29:01 – 00:56:33:00]
So don’t get all wound up like I used to

[00:56:33:00 – 00:56:34:16]
because I quickly figured

[00:56:34:16 – 00:56:37:10]
out that their description

[00:56:37:10 – 00:56:41:06]
is not even close to reality.

[00:56:41:06 – 00:56:42:06]
Right, right.

[00:56:42:06 – 00:56:44:24]
Well, you’ve had five drinks in a night.

[00:56:44:24 – 00:56:46:28]
Everybody’s the hottest people you’ve

[00:56:46:28 – 00:56:48:07]
ever had at a party.

[00:56:48:07 – 00:56:49:13]
It just happens.

[00:56:49:13 – 00:56:50:01]
I know.

[00:56:50:01 – 00:56:54:09]
Ken talks about in here,

[00:56:54:09 – 00:56:57:17]
we’ll address some questions here.

[00:56:57:17 – 00:56:58:16]
Yeah, Oklahoma, I know

[00:56:58:16 – 00:56:59:25]
that’s exactly what I said.

[00:56:59:25 – 00:57:00:25]
I was like, “Holy crap,

[00:57:00:25 – 00:57:02:09]
that’s like in the middle of

[00:57:02:09 – 00:57:07:15]
super conservative South,” so to speak.

[00:57:07:15 – 00:57:08:01]
I know.

[00:57:08:01 – 00:57:09:07]
I guess it’s the dirty

[00:57:09:07 – 00:57:10:25]
South of it’s in Texas area.

[00:57:10:25 – 00:57:14:07]
But anyway, and yeah,

[00:57:14:07 – 00:57:16:10]
I’m kind of convinced

[00:57:16:10 – 00:57:17:18]
with as many Mormon

[00:57:17:18 – 00:57:19:00]
swaggers that we’ve run across

[00:57:19:00 – 00:57:20:13]
in the lifestyle in the 10 years

[00:57:20:13 – 00:57:23:10]
that there’s some really repressed people

[00:57:23:10 – 00:57:25:16]
are they come out hard.

[00:57:25:16 – 00:57:28:17]
Like they are the hard

[00:57:28:17 – 00:57:31:26]
partiers and apparently swinging

[00:57:31:26 – 00:57:32:28]
and they have like 1800

[00:57:32:28 – 00:57:34:12]
people come out of the woodwork

[00:57:34:12 – 00:57:35:22]
just for that event.

[00:57:35:22 – 00:57:40:16]
And I absolutely like your

[00:57:40:16 – 00:57:44:20]
strategy Ken for two days,

[00:57:44:20 – 00:57:47:19]
have a blast, let it all hang out.

[00:57:47:19 – 00:57:48:20]
And then you’re like,

[00:57:48:20 – 00:57:50:19]
“Can’t do that all the time.

[00:57:50:19 – 00:57:52:27]
I need a couple of days to

[00:57:52:27 – 00:57:54:18]
rest and put some ointment

[00:57:54:18 – 00:57:56:10]
on things because I’m a little sore.”

[00:57:56:10 – 00:57:58:17]
I know.

[00:57:58:17 – 00:58:01:04]
We’ve had those parties before.

[00:58:01:04 – 00:58:02:01]
We have, yeah.

[00:58:02:01 – 00:58:03:09]
And then yeah, it does.

[00:58:03:09 – 00:58:04:07]
It kind of puts things in a

[00:58:04:07 – 00:58:05:09]
little perspective for you

[00:58:05:09 – 00:58:05:26]
because you’re like,

[00:58:05:26 – 00:58:08:15]
“Get too old for this.

[00:58:08:15 – 00:58:09:26]
Get too old for this shit.”

[00:58:09:26 – 00:58:14:05]
Yeah, yeah.

[00:58:14:05 – 00:58:17:10]
So yeah, dopamine is a real thing.

[00:58:17:10 – 00:58:24:05]
I never really looked at that chemical

[00:58:24:05 – 00:58:27:05]
and natural chemical response of the body

[00:58:27:05 – 00:58:28:17]
and how it really

[00:58:28:17 – 00:58:31:05]
does fuck with your mind.

[00:58:31:05 – 00:58:33:11]
Well, it happens automatically.

[00:58:33:11 – 00:58:34:07]
So it’s not even

[00:58:34:07 – 00:58:36:07]
something you have to think about.

[00:58:36:07 – 00:58:38:21]
It just happens to you.

[00:58:38:21 – 00:58:39:05]
I know.

[00:58:39:05 – 00:58:44:03]
And this is why doctors are so careful

[00:58:44:03 – 00:58:45:11]
when they prescribe any

[00:58:45:11 – 00:58:47:22]
kind of mood altering drug

[00:58:47:22 – 00:58:51:07]
because it can have great impacts

[00:58:51:07 – 00:58:54:28]
and they tend to step you up carefully

[00:58:54:28 – 00:58:56:25]
and step you down carefully

[00:58:56:25 – 00:58:58:05]
because of the way it

[00:58:58:05 – 00:59:00:22]
alters your mood and your mind.

[00:59:00:22 – 00:59:04:09]
I mean, it’s no joke.

[00:59:04:09 – 00:59:07:11]
No, and if you think about that,

[00:59:07:11 – 00:59:08:00]
you’ve got this

[00:59:08:00 – 00:59:11:17]
normalized level of maybe dopamine

[00:59:11:17 – 00:59:14:10]
and then you go off of your meds

[00:59:14:10 – 00:59:15:07]
and then you drop to

[00:59:15:07 – 00:59:17:11]
an abnormal under low.

[00:59:17:11 – 00:59:19:09]
And that’s why things are…

[00:59:19:09 – 00:59:21:13]
There’s actually another strategy

[00:59:21:13 – 00:59:22:13]
that happens with that too.

[00:59:22:13 – 00:59:25:05]
But because I’m not a

[00:59:25:05 – 00:59:27:05]
therapist or a psychologist

[00:59:27:05 – 00:59:31:06]
or a doctor, we just say

[00:59:31:06 – 00:59:32:24]
the fancy doctor-y words

[00:59:32:24 – 00:59:34:02]
on a podcast.

[00:59:34:02 – 00:59:39:20]
We recommend a group that

[00:59:39:20 – 00:59:41:01]
deals with this kind of stuff.

[00:59:41:01 – 00:59:42:22]
And if you want to talk

[00:59:42:22 – 00:59:44:24]
to a coach or a counselor

[00:59:44:24 – 00:59:48:02]
about this, we highly recommend it.

[00:59:48:02 – 00:59:51:09]
We absolutely believe in couples therapy

[00:59:51:09 – 00:59:53:00]
and, you know, swinger

[00:59:53:00 – 00:59:54:17]
therapists and all of that stuff.

[00:59:54:17 – 00:59:58:16]
We’ll put a link to a group called

[00:59:58:16 – 00:59:59:11]
Expansive Connection

[00:59:59:11 – 01:00:00:26]
at the bottom of this

[01:00:00:26 – 01:00:02:03]
episode in the show notes

[01:00:02:03 – 01:00:05:09]
and reach out to them, talk

[01:00:05:09 – 01:00:06:11]
to them about their services.

[01:00:06:11 – 01:00:09:16]
We’ve had them on our episodes

[01:00:09:16 – 01:00:11:18]
before we’ve done interviews with them.

[01:00:11:18 – 01:00:14:09]
And we highly recommend

[01:00:14:09 – 01:00:16:00]
seeking professional help

[01:00:16:00 – 01:00:18:11]
if you need somebody to talk to.

[01:00:18:11 – 01:00:20:19]
And they practice the lifestyle.

[01:00:20:19 – 01:00:22:11]
They’re in the lifestyle

[01:00:22:11 – 01:00:24:13]
in some form, shape or form.

[01:00:24:13 – 01:00:26:09]
Some of them are polyamorous.

[01:00:26:09 – 01:00:29:07]
Some have a staff of,

[01:00:29:07 – 01:00:30:18]
I think, four people,

[01:00:30:18 – 01:00:32:28]
one gentleman, I think three women.

[01:00:32:28 – 01:00:36:22]
And yeah, they’re really great.

[01:00:36:22 – 01:00:38:09]
Yeah, good people.

[01:00:38:09 – 01:00:39:10]
Really great resource.

[01:00:39:10 – 01:00:41:11]
And I love that they’re

[01:00:41:11 – 01:00:43:07]
available to this community.

[01:00:43:07 – 01:00:44:22]
Absolutely.

[01:00:44:22 – 01:00:46:11]
Thanks everyone.

[01:00:46:11 – 01:00:48:16]
Thanks everyone for tuning in.

[01:00:48:16 – 01:00:51:04]
We appreciate you joining our little

[01:00:51:04 – 01:00:53:03]
Wednesday night party.

[01:00:53:03 – 01:00:54:24]
Don’t forget your homework.

[01:00:54:24 – 01:00:58:00]
Tell a friend about our show.

[01:00:58:00 – 01:01:00:09]
And if you want, leave a review

[01:01:00:09 – 01:01:02:13]
and definitely leave a

[01:01:02:13 – 01:01:04:09]
comment, even if it’s just an emoji

[01:01:04:09 – 01:01:05:21]
and I’ll steal this from somebody else.

[01:01:05:21 – 01:01:06:26]
And if you know who it is,

[01:01:06:26 – 01:01:08:10]
you can also leave that in a comment

[01:01:08:10 – 01:01:09:25]
because, you know, engagement.

[01:01:09:25 – 01:01:12:19]
You can leave us a

[01:01:12:19 – 01:01:16:22]
voicemail at 916-538-0482

[01:01:16:22 – 01:01:19:26]
or you can contact us at

[01:01:19:26 – 01:01:22:12]
swingeruniversity.com.

[01:01:22:12 – 01:01:24:28]
Well, thank you all for tuning in.

[01:01:24:28 – 01:01:26:20]
And as we say, keep

[01:01:26:20 – 01:01:28:09]
learning, keep growing

[01:01:28:09 – 01:01:29:22]
and keep it sexy.

[01:01:29:22 – 01:01:33:22]
And we’ll talk to you guys next time.

[01:01:33:22 – 01:01:34:26]
And if you want to

[01:01:34:26 – 01:01:35:25]
catch next week’s episode,

[01:01:35:25 – 01:01:36:25]
you do have to join Patreon

[01:01:36:25 – 01:01:39:09]
because we have to

[01:01:39:09 – 01:01:41:02]
keep balance in our life.

[01:01:41:02 – 01:01:42:24]
And every other

[01:01:42:24 – 01:01:45:05]
Wednesday is the public episodes.

[01:01:45:05 – 01:01:45:19]
But if you want to

[01:01:45:19 – 01:01:46:25]
hear the behind the scenes

[01:01:46:25 – 01:01:47:16]
and the stuff that was

[01:01:47:16 – 01:01:49:00]
going on in our private lives,

[01:01:49:00 – 01:01:50:20]
stuff that we don’t talk

[01:01:50:20 – 01:01:51:22]
about in the main episode,

[01:01:51:22 – 01:01:52:25]
you might have to

[01:01:52:25 – 01:01:54:07]
check us out on Patreon.

[01:01:54:07 – 01:01:57:20]
So, till next time.

[01:01:57:20 – 01:01:58:20]
Ciao, ciao.

[01:01:58:20 – 01:02:03:02]
(upbeat music)