‘Cunt’ to Waxing: A Hairy Journey Through Time

[00:00] [Ed] Welcome to Swinger University, where we mix sex education with sensual exploration.
I’m Ed.
And I’m Phoebe.
Join us as we guide you through the sexy world of open relationships with an intellectual

[00:12] [Unknown] twist.

[00:14] [Ed] We discuss everything from sexual health to communication and emotional dynamics.
To add in some sexy, we sprinkle in our own personal experiences and insights to help
you navigate this exciting lifestyle.
If you’re curious about exploring your sexuality, you’re in an open relationship or just love
all things sexy, this is the podcast for you.
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[00:43] [Phoebe] We love getting questions from our audience, so if you want to know more about something,
let us know by calling us and leaving us a voicemail or contacting us through our website
at SwingerUniversity.com.
Today’s question is two parts.
Where did the word cunt come from?
And what happened to all the pubic hair in the world?
We’ll be exploring these two intriguing topics and why the heck cunt is so controversial,
as well as why women feel the need to look like children down there.
So get ready for a deep dive as we shed some light on the history and cultural significance.

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As a Patron, you’ll get access to exclusive content that’s even hotter than what we
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Speaking of Patrons, we have a new subscriber, Brittany.

[01:42] [Unknown] Thank you, Brittany, for your support.

[01:45] [Phoebe] Alright, this is a very sensitive word in our culture, the word cunt.

[01:54] [Unknown] And honestly, I’m surprised how well I’ve moved past how sensitive I used to be about

[02:02] [Phoebe] that word.
I couldn’t even say this word before.

[02:05] [Ed] I did notice that you flinched a little bit at the beginning when you were reading the

[02:12] [Phoebe] intro.
It was mostly flinching for our listeners because I know me saying that is already triggering
people.

[02:20] [Ed] Exactly.

[02:21] [Phoebe] I know.

[02:22] [Unknown] I’m trying to be sensitive, but I need to say the word.

[02:25] [Ed] Yeah, it’s hard to talk about a thing unless you can talk about the thing.

[02:30] [Unknown] Right.

[02:31] [Phoebe] Yes.
So we’re going to talk about how the language evolved around that, the slang meanings,
the connotation, and how that word has undergone the significant evolution.
And then we’re going to touch on pubic hair, having it versus shaving it, and how that
changed over time, the beliefs and the biases.

[02:57] [Ed] Yeah.
So we’re going to be dealing with everything down under today.

[03:00] [Phoebe] Yes.
Which is why we had this little mashup, if you will.
Alright.

[03:08] [Unknown] The evolution of cunt.

[03:11] [Ed] Well, in Egyptian times, the 25th century BC, Kunt was a form of respect.

[03:23] [Unknown] Yeah.

[03:24] [Phoebe] They actually spelled it a little differently, or as pronounced, I don’t know, it was spelled
differently.
It was spelled with the K and not the C.

[03:33] [Ed] Right.
And assuming with the Egyptian version of that, but it was a hard sound.

[03:39] [Unknown] Yes.

[03:40] [Phoebe] And then in medieval times, Kunt was not considered offensive at all.

[03:47] [Unknown] Interesting.
Right.

[03:49] [Phoebe] And then it changed again, you know, kind of like fashion, right?
Or kind of like eggs, right?

[03:56] [Unknown] Or wine.

[03:57] [Phoebe] Eggs are in.
Have one every day.
Oh, don’t have one every day.

[04:00] [Unknown] Clestral.

[04:01] [Phoebe] Wine is bad.
No.
Now you can have that every day.
In fact, have two.

[04:05] [Ed] I think that may have just been a COVID thing.

[04:08] [Phoebe] Oh, yeah.
That was.
So the rise of Puritanism in the early modern period changed the connotation of the word

[04:17] [Unknown] again.

[04:19] [Phoebe] And today, it’s back to being one of the most offensive words in the English language.

[04:28] [Ed] Yeah.
You pretty much can’t say that word.
It’s even worse than the word bitch.

[04:35] [Unknown] Yes.

[04:36] [Ed] It is.
Funny because we were just at a comedy show this last week.
And those of you follow us on social media saw some posts about that.
We were at the Joe Koi show.
And he used that word affectionately, he said affectionately, repeatedly throughout the

[04:53] [Unknown] show.

[04:54] [Ed] And it was, it was more of like just a slang term.
The C word, Kunt, isn’t so slang here.

[05:04] [Phoebe] It cannot really be used any other way other than that one way.
But you’re right.
Bitch can be used affectionately or, you know, as a get over here, bitch, right, right,
just angry and calling someone a bitch, right.
So Kunt actually used to be the, it meant vulva.
So how did it become so offensive?
And, you know, linguists still today don’t really know cultural anthropologists still
don’t really know.
And in England, Kunt is a strong word, but it’s not deeply offensive like it is here.
So just like we were talking about here, it’s basically, yeah, it’s a one way, offensive,
that’s it.

[05:58] [Ed] You can’t say it at all, but yeah, they throw it around a lot in, in England.
And it’s, it’s actually kind of a pretty common term and it’s not, not particularly
offensive.
It’s, it’s just, it’s just a word.

[06:10] [Phoebe] Yeah.
And they do use it like bitch, you’re like, oh, you old Kunt, right?

[06:16] [Unknown] Yeah.

[06:17] [Ed] And guys will talk to each other and call each other Kunt.

[06:21] [Phoebe] Yeah.
Yeah.
So, but here, not so much.
And there was really a lot of conversations that just stop when you, over here, when you,
when you hear that word, the conversation stops.

[06:37] [Unknown] Right.

[06:38] [Phoebe] So I can’t imagine.
It’s a fighting word.
Oh, yeah.

[06:41] [Unknown] Can’t imagine going over to England and hearing it and you’re just, you’re like, right?

[06:47] [Phoebe] There was a reclamation of the word.
And in the 1970s, the feminist artists use the word as a symbol for female empowerment.
And a lot of women still use that word and embrace it today.
In the 80s, an Australian comic Rodney Rude refers to his audience as Kuntz.
And he used the word frequently in his acts, which got him arrested in Queensland for
breaching obscenity laws.

[07:15] [Unknown] Oh, man.

[07:16] [Phoebe] And in 1990, Madonna used the phrase, I am the Cunt of Western Civilization.

[07:25] [Ed] Leave it to Madonna to embrace the word and try and make headlines just for saying things.

[07:32] [Phoebe] Yes.

[07:33] [Unknown] Yes.

[07:34] [Phoebe] Kuntz has been used in the 2000s in some drag shows.
Right.
Right.
And then in 2013, 2014, Aston University and the University of Southern California, Southern
Carolina, found that most frequently, this word was used in the New England States.

[07:58] [Unknown] Interesting.

[07:59] [Phoebe] So nowhere else in the rest of the country, as much as New England States, maybe because
of the influence from Europe and that we’re so close to the pond, I don’t know.

[08:13] [Ed] I’m not sure that’s relevant anymore with airplanes and such.

[08:18] [Unknown] It’s not like the Mayflower just pops into New Hampshire now and again for Boston Harbor.

[08:24] [Phoebe] I thought that was interesting.
And then it is, it is also in those states, the most used word after the word asshole,
especially in Maine.

[08:35] [Unknown] Interesting.

[08:37] [Phoebe] So something’s going on up there, they’re super comfortable with it.
So y’all might be just going, oh, he’s like, we’re all the time.
What are you talking about?

[08:48] [Ed] If you live in the Northeast and you have an explanation for this, please send us a message.
Yes.
I’d love to hear more about why being an asshole in Maine is okay.

[08:58] [Phoebe] Yeah.
And how you use the word, like do you use it affectionately?
Give us sentences.
I’m dying.
Just get some context.

[09:05] [Ed] Yeah.
Call us.
Leave us a voicemail.

[09:08] [Unknown] We’d love to hear from all the cut users.

[09:11] [Phoebe] Yes.

[09:12] [Unknown] I want to know.

[09:14] [Phoebe] I think it was in 2018, a Canadian comedian Samantha B had to apologize to Ivanka Trump
after calling her a cut on an American late night TV show.

[09:29] [Ed] Oh boy.

[09:30] [Phoebe] And I never knew that.

[09:32] [Ed] That’s pretty funny.

[09:33] [Phoebe] Yeah.
Yeah, she gotten so much bad press that she had to issue an apology.
That’s happened to comedians before, but I didn’t know this one.

[09:43] [Ed] Yes, but not usually for a word, but that’s interesting.

[09:46] [Unknown] Right.

[09:47] [Ed] That’s how offensive it is.
It ranks right up there with defamation.

[09:50] [Phoebe] Yes.

[09:51] [Unknown] Yes.

[09:52] [Phoebe] So, now, where to the evolution of body hair?

[10:03] [Unknown] All right.

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[11:00] [Unknown] Yeah.

[11:05] [Ed] We’ve gone through fashionable health phases with pubic hair and for men and for women.

[11:16] [Phoebe] And in ancient Egypt, body hair was considered uncivilized and unhygienic.
And I like to think it was just because they had a lot of lice because they lived in

[11:27] [Unknown] this sandy, you know, very reasonable.

[11:31] [Ed] Now, what I think what I’m most concerned with is what were they shaving with in Egyptian
times?
It had to have been bronze blades of some sort to talk about trying to get a close shave.
And you imagine trimming?
I can’t imagine trimming or shaving my parts with a blade down there.

[11:54] [Phoebe] Right.
And when my razor gets a little dull, which is usually after three uses, it’s not comfortable.
And that’s just on the top part.
Right.

[12:07] [Ed] We’re not even talking the down bone.

[12:08] [Unknown] We’re not even talking in between, right?
So, yeah, I have no idea what they use, but if you happen to know that, you’re an archaeologist

[12:19] [Ed] and you studied the shaving of pubes in ancient Egypt, it’s lice now.

[12:25] [Phoebe] And in ancient Greece, women were completely hairless while men grew their body hair as
a sign of masculinity.
All right.
In the middle ages, shaving pubic hair was associated with prostitution.

[12:41] [Ed] Oh.

[12:42] [Phoebe] All right.
So here we are.
We’re going from it’s super hip to only the dirty girls do it, only the dirty girls do
it.
And all that shame that, you know, was around that.
Then in the Renaissance, a full bush was considered sexy.

[13:00] [Ed] So this is kind of like chunky heels, skinny heels, chunky heel, skinny heels,

[13:06] [Unknown] jeans, billboards, yeah, it’s awesome.

[13:14] [Phoebe] Like I said, it changes, I’m not, you know, society changes what’s in, what’s in, what’s
hip, what’s not, right?
So then body hair removal was starting to be viewed as a symbol of class, purity, masculinity,
and femininity.
And in 1946, when they introduced the bikini, public, you know, public hair, public trimming

[13:45] [Unknown] of your hair, that would have been sexy.

[13:48] [Phoebe] Oh, I don’t know if it would have been sexy, but it would have been sexy, seasonally naked
in public.

[13:53] [Unknown] But you can go to, you’d be to the back then, yeah.

[13:57] [Phoebe] No, I was thinking of the place in France, South France.

[14:01] [Ed] I don’t know when that spun up, when, when CapDag became a thing.

[14:06] [Phoebe] Yeah, I wonder how long they’ve been a naked town.

[14:08] [Ed] It’s a whole other episode.
Oh, yeah.
But it makes sense to start trimming around bikinis, you know, as the bathing suits went
from being long johns to short shorts to, you know, it does look a little weird to have
the hair kind of peeking out around the side.

[14:26] [Phoebe] Flip it out.
Exactly.
And I distinctly remember when I started wearing a bikini that, and I was getting
public hair, and I had public hair, that it did.
The little hairs would floof out around the sides of the bikini, and it didn’t look
good.
So you’d try to push them in and come over, come to the middle.
Yeah.
And they’d, you know, they just wiggle themselves out, right?
Because the bikini moves, you move.
So I would start trimming, you know, with the scissors, but I wasn’t into shaving it because
I didn’t, I didn’t have a razor, I couldn’t ask mom for a razor, although I had a leg

[15:03] [Unknown] razor, I could have done that.

[15:06] [Phoebe] But at some point, at some point, I did start shaving the sides of the leg a little more
in past that line where, you know, the bikini was total start.
And that’s where it started.
And then in the 1950s, Playboy magazine was showing clean shaving women.
And it became the benchmark for that ideal look.

[15:37] [Ed] Hmm.
Thanks to Playboy.
Thanks to Playboy.
Tremendous.

[15:41] [Unknown] Tremendous.
Tremendous.

[15:43] [Phoebe] Tremendous.
Tremendous.
And then in the 1980s, the Brazilian wax became very, very popular.

[15:51] [Unknown] Yeah.

[15:53] [Phoebe] Ouch.

[15:54] [Unknown] And we’ve never turned back.
Yeah.
Now, it’s interesting because we’ll have partners occasionally that have pubic hair.

[16:07] [Ed] And it’s fairly unusual in the lifestyle.
I actually kind of like it because it’s a little bit of a throwback.
I remember, I remember back when there was pubic hair.
And it, it’s a nice surprise when you get a little bit.
I mean, it’s not full on like 70s, trubbery.
Right.

[16:26] [Phoebe] It was Trem.

[16:27] [Ed] Trimmed into a little landing strip or something like that.

[16:30] [Phoebe] Yeah, or they have all full hair.
It’s just very short.
Right.
Now mine was earlier when it was longer.
But if I trimmed it, it got stick straight, which looked really weird.
Right.
So when this whole trimming, shaving, Brazilian wax thing came around, I just started shaving
because when I just landscaped, it just looked dumb.
And when they’re straight, they become more pokey.

[17:03] [Unknown] Yeah.

[17:04] [Phoebe] And then itchy.
And now all of a sudden, not itching my crotch, which makes it look like I have crabs
and who wants to.
Yeah.
That’s not sexy.
Advertise.
That’s not sexy at all.

[17:14] [Ed] Got something that you don’t have.
So Phoebe, how do you prefer your pussy?
And I’ll, I’ll say that because it’s kind of a loaded question because we sort of answered
that you’re shaved now.

[17:24] [Unknown] Right.
So you kind of don’t have, well, explain which, which way do you prefer it?

[17:33] [Phoebe] I actually prefer shaved.
I sometimes think I, I, I wish I had it just so that I had the option to be shaved versus
not.
Right.
But I do not miss the maintenance.
I do not miss the prickly hair.
I do not miss having to, to maintain it and shave it into patterns and you shave it
into a pattern.
And you have to shave like, you know, every day or every other day to keep it maintained.
And then you slip where you’re in a hurry one day and all of a sudden you fucked up your
pattern.
And then just, they got to start all over it’s, it’s kind of annoying the shaving part.
But honestly, I’d never tried the Brazilian wax.
I was too afraid and I was too shy to stick my ass in the air and wear my legs over my
head.

[18:28] [Ed] They always make it look terrible, like really painful, like really painful.
I mean, it looks painful.

[18:36] [Unknown] And I’ve, you know, I’ve plucked hairs before and eyes watering, teared up like it hurts

[18:45] [Ed] to pluck.

[18:46] [Unknown] And I’ve had my underarms, you know, waxed before.
Now it is a thicker hair, I bled like a stuck pig, ow.

[18:57] [Phoebe] Yeah, I wasn’t like I was on ibuprofen or anything where you bleed more, but it pulled

[19:02] [Ed] the follicles.

[19:03] [Phoebe] Oh, I was bleeding.
Oh my god, it was so gross.
It hurts so bad.

[19:08] [Ed] How long did it last?

[19:10] [Phoebe] Oh, it lasts for at least a good hair cycle, which is typically six weeks.

[19:15] [Ed] Wow.
So that would be the question, is it worth the pain?
Right.
Is that lack of maintenance worth the pain?

[19:24] [Phoebe] Theoretically, you know, it disappears over time.
The more you pull the follicle out, the weaker it gets.
It stops.
It dies.
It doesn’t come back.
And each hair cycle is a different pattern.
So sometimes one hair cycle is thicker than the other.
So you can kind of overlap them a little bit or go a little longer.
It depends on how much hair you have.

[19:45] [Ed] And you have to have a little bit of length when you go to wax, right?
Because the wax has to have something to grab onto.

[19:49] [Phoebe] So now, like you’re scheduling your date around your waxing schedule, you’re like,
oh, I can’t do the date tonight because I’ve got enough hair length to go to my waxing
appointment tomorrow.

[20:01] [Ed] Right.
So it’s like six weeks.

[20:03] [Unknown] And then you got to wait like a week for it to grow out, or does it take longer than
a week?

[20:08] [Phoebe] Oh, that I don’t remember depends on the person.

[20:15] [Ed] Yeah, it probably depends on how quickly your hair grows.

[20:17] [Phoebe] But what if you have a hot, you know, last minute date?

[20:21] [Ed] I mean, I’m not going to kick a wound out of bed, just got a little bit of hair.
I don’t have an issue with it, but I could see a lot of people having a little bit of

[20:32] [Phoebe] a…
So the scheduling of all that was just effing, annoying.

[20:40] [Ed] No doubt.

[20:41] [Phoebe] Yeah.
What was also weird about the long hair was it would push through the panties.

[20:49] [Ed] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[20:50] [Phoebe] I remember that.
And so you’d see hair in the front of your panties, all the hairs would push through.

[20:55] [Ed] To be like one or two long and sick cut.

[20:58] [Phoebe] And I hated that.
I’m like, this, blah, blah.
So yeah, I was not a fan.
And as soon as laser hair removal hit the market, I was like, oh, fuck, yeah, I’m all
in for that.

[21:13] [Unknown] Right.

[21:14] [Ed] Right.

[21:15] [Phoebe] I will say, I spent a lot of money doing that and the technology wasn’t great.
Technology now is amazing.
You could go in and have three sessions and pretty much be done before it was like 12, 18
sessions.
Technology.
Yeah.

[21:34] [Unknown] These are some amazing now.
What about you?

[21:37] [Ed] Um, you know, I like to shave down there, at least to trim it back.
On the, you know, on the scrotum and up to the base of the shaft, right?
So there’s a little patch up on top, you know, a little covering, I don’t want to look
like a boy.
Right.

[21:54] [Unknown] But at the same time, shaving gets the hair out of the way for low jobs.

[22:01] [Ed] Yes.

[22:02] [Unknown] It cleans up kind of the general appearance.

[22:07] [Ed] And if anything, it kind of makes it look a little bigger.
Oh, yes, that’s true.
Because you’re not hiding the base of the shaft.
You can see the whole thing.
So it kind of sticks out a little bit more.
It stands out.
Right.

[22:19] [Phoebe] And I will say I do appreciate that because I have given low jobs and suck down balls
with hair and there’s nothing worse than having a hair stick at the back of your throat
and you can’t fucking get it down.
You drink water and it’s like velcro.

[22:35] [Ed] I do remember those days of eating pussy and having, it’s just,

[22:42] [Phoebe] a hair.
Annoying.

[22:44] [Ed] Yeah.
And it’s funny.
You can’t find it.
No.
It tickles and it’s choking you, you can, you can sense it.
But when you get your finger in there, you can’t find it.
So you know, you got to go rinse or spit or something to try and get it out.
Eventually, you just probably swallow it like, you know, there you go.

[23:03] [Phoebe] Yeah.
So, yeah.
There’s that.
Mm-hmm.

[23:07] [Ed] Yeah.

[23:08] [Phoebe] Yeah.
So that is my preference and, you know, I, when I do go to the, to the nudist resort
though, sometimes I wish I had a little hair to kind of just hide everything from just

[23:25] [Unknown] being totally exposed, but, but mine’s pretty tucked under.
Yeah.

[23:33] [Phoebe] And I haven’t had a, a, a belly lift or whatever they call that, you know, so when they
pull your skin from the top of your body and the bottom of your body and stitch together,
it typically pulls your lips up so that they’re exposed.
So if you see a woman who’s, who slit is way up high, that she said a little lift.
She typically has, yeah, not always.

[23:56] [Ed] A slit lift.

[23:57] [Phoebe] Yeah.
Or if they, this, a surgeon’s done it a little more aggressively than, than others, because
I’ve seen some women where it’s not like that.
But interesting.
Then you’re really exposed out there.
You’re really hanging out and I would feel uncomfortable.

[24:13] [Ed] I wonder if there’s an advantage to that in some respects, because you’ve kind of pulled
the hood back a little bit and exposed the clit a little bit more, because you’ve, you’ve
kind of tightened all of that stuff up.
It’s kind of interesting.

[24:24] [Phoebe] Mm-hmm.
I have to, I have to do some, yeah, I wonder if I’m testing to see, I wonder if it feels

[24:29] [Unknown] better.

[24:30] [Ed] Don’t know.

[24:32] [Unknown] Folks, pushes it out, lifts it and protrudes it.
It’s a pussy, facelift, a pussy lift.

[24:42] [Phoebe] Yeah, so, you know, I, you know, I do sometimes miss it, you know, I, I look like a girl,
but it’s nice, it’s clean.

[24:54] [Ed] I’m, I’m torn about the whole thing, to be honest, because I do like a little bit
of hair down there.
But, like you said, there’s an advantage to that completely clean shaving.
I mean, you can just rub your face all over it and, and have a, have a great time down
there, and you’re not worried about the hair getting up your nose or in your mouth.

[25:22] [Phoebe] And my hair grew in different thicknesses, so as, as it, as you got closer to the top

[25:31] [Unknown] of the, the slit, right at the base of the clip, it was super dense, so it was really

[25:39] [Phoebe] dense and really black right there.
That’s funny.

[25:42] [Ed] And then as it fanned out, more thinner, more spread out, more thinner, more.

[25:47] [Phoebe] So here you are trying to do some cool pattern, and it’s kind of like a guy with like, you
know, no chin hair, right, because you’re so sparse, gaps in, in your beard, gaps in your

[25:59] [Ed] beard.

[26:01] [Phoebe] So then I had to deal with that.
I’m like, this fucking sucks.

[26:05] [Ed] Yeah, yeah, that, that, that is challenging as, as someone who doesn’t grow a full beard
very easily, yeah, see how that would be a problem.

[26:15] [Phoebe] Yeah, so, yeah, there you go.
So, you know, in, in conclusion of all of this, the, the evolution of language and

[26:28] [Unknown] cultural attitudes towards sex and the body, they’re very deeply intertwined.

[26:34] [Phoebe] And examining the history of words and practices helps us understand our own cultural attitudes.

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[27:18] [Phoebe] You won’t want to miss our next episode where we discuss why Ed decided to skewer his
penis with a stainless steel rod.
Thanks for joining us on Swinger University, where we mix pleasure with knowledge.
Until next time, keep exploring, keep discovering and keep swinging.

[27:40] [Unknown] Oh, one last thing before you go.

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All the instructions are there.
Thank you for being part of this community.
We’ll see you again soon.