Ed and Phoebe Full Swap with Toronto Unicorn

Hi, I’m Ed.

I’m Phoebe.

And we’re going to be talking with Toronto Unicorn today, finding out a little bit more about her and what she does and her neck of the woods because we’re quite a bit south from her and things are a little different here than there. And we’d like to find out how should we make a vacation up to Toronto and how much fun would it be?

Welcome to Swinger University with Ed and Phoebe.

Our podcast, we started our podcast about three years ago now, didn’t really actively market it. And we’re under the cover of No Faces, right? And we decided in last year that we were just going to come out. We checked our clauses with our work and we decided we’re safe. And you know what? We value the community. We’ve been part of this community for 10 years and we really want to bring more light and focus to namanagami and how people define their relationships in different ways. It’s so diverse and it’s so wonderful. And the community is amazing. I mean, it’s not just about the sex. People think Swinger and it’s all about sex, but it’s not. I mean, it’s there obviously, but you have this sense of freedom to be part of this greater community and feel and express the way you like to and do what you want. There’s just no layer or curtains over you. It’s amazing. I just love it. So we really want to support the community and start removing some of those negative stigmas on a marriage that doesn’t look like a normal two-person marriage between a man and a woman. So that’s what we are doing with our podcast now, trying to be…

And how do you feel with your faces out there and actually representing this community? Because I know I get the same sense of, I feel as in the pride representing this community or at least one face of it. And so I want to get your take. Do you ever do regrets about showing your face?

No, not so far. Not so far.

But we also have realized that we’re not as big as a lot of other podcasts and we’re growing. We’re growing pretty quickly now in the last year.

So there’s still opportunity for bad things to happen. We just haven’t seen them yet. So far it’s been really, really positive. It has been really positive.

Yeah. And that’s fair, right? That’s fair to say, “Hey man, so far so good, but we’re like five miles down a long highway. Let’s see how this goes.” That’s fair. They also said I might regret not having kids and stuff. And I’m like, “Well, so far I don’t, but like maybe in my 80s, but so far I don’t.”

I was told that also. And I have not regretted that either.

Right?

Yeah. Well, that’s fantastic. I just got familiar with your podcast recently. In fact, I just became familiar with podcasts in general recently. I had never really listened to any. And so then I created one without having a history of listening to them. So I am learning as I go. And so I did take a peek at yours. And I noticed that with yours, even though you’re offering information in the same space, you guys come out with a much more, like, I love the name University because it’s like researched. You come research. When I heard Ed talk about the different materials and condoms, I was like, “No one will ever expect this on my channel or my podcast because I would be like, “Oh, that’s book smart shit. I don’t want to.” I’m more like, “You’ll feel if it’s earthy.” So I talk differently than you do. And everybody relates differently. And so I found it to be really refreshing also.

Nice. Yeah. Yeah. We try and keep it a little less nerdy than full nerd, but yeah, it is. It’s very, very much research based and very much of an educational podcast, but we like to have fun too and not lose so much of the fun in the message of what that podcast is about.

Exactly. And I like appealing to the biological mind, the reasons why.

And honestly, a lot of the stuff that we present is out of my own frustrations and experiences, right? I had to do all this research on condoms because I was having an issue with them. So hence the deep dive into condom research.

Yeah, exactly. And to be honest with you, some of those things really matter when you explain the functional reasons, the logical brain, as you said, you’re connecting to somebody who might be otherwise completely lost. How do I pick a fucking condom? That one says mega. That one says, you know, BAM, I don’t know. Maybe I’m, you know, there are adults on marketing, but to them, they’re like, “Well, I feel BAM today. Maybe I’ll take BAM.” But that’s like the wrong one, right? So I’m sure there’s really good help out there. So, and again, you guys also do Swinger Cruises and Lifestyle Resorts. I have never gone to one of those yet.

Oh my gosh, you should go. Now to clarify, we have been on, oh, let’s see, we’ve been on how many cruises now? Three, four?

Three.

Three. But we’ve never been to the big lifestyle resorts like in Jamaica or Mexico. But I will say we’ve interviewed about 80 people about them. And we just can’t pull the trigger because

from where we live, it’s a big travel commitment. It’s a big cost commitment. And for, and you can’t leave the resort. And honestly, I like to explore. I’m an explorer and, you know,

you can’t do that. So, and they can, they have their pros and cons and we have episodes and blogs on that too. But we love the cruises because they’re more affordable and you, there’s like 3000 people, sometimes 6000 people and you can find something for everybody. It’s like create your own vacation. Honestly, it’s amazing. You would love it.

Is it usually a full takeover of Swinger Lifestyle? Or sometimes it like a half, half season.

No. So the whole boat is lifestyle friendly. Um, there, there’s no civilians on board.

And other than the crew,

but I, I, I’m coming from ground zero. What is lifestyle friendly made on a crew?

Yeah. So the, the, there are people who are nudists and are just comfortable being around swingers. So not everybody on the ship is an actual full swap Swinger or soft swap Swinger, but you’re, you’re not going to mix your Disney crew with this crew. You’re not going to confuse this with a, uh, a carnival fun line, kind of a, a ship. It’s, it’s definitely geared towards being naked, having naked fun with naked people.

And when the ship is a mile from port, everyone can be naked at the pool. And until you get close to port again, you can be naked all day long at the pool. You can’t be naked in the hallways. You have to wear a robe or bathing suit or, you know, whatever. And of course in the restaurants, but it’s, there’s a lot of naked all the time and they have playrooms outside too. So if you want to get it on in the breeze and then in the ship air, it’s crazy. Wow. Yeah, that’s pretty neat.

There’s like a lots of play areas. Can you have sex anywhere on the screws? Pretty much.

They have designated areas because they’re staffed for your safety and then the staff make sure everything is clean and they change the sheets for you and they take care of the trash. So it’s actually really nice.

Wow.

I can imagine that that could feel like a very large boat at times, but if you have a bad hookup, it could feel like a small boat. You’re like, okay, well, we’re stuck with this. People are the same like nightlife every night, you know? So that actually brings me into the culture, right? Of the sooner lifestyle is be careful where you step and how you step on people, because this is a very close knit community as many will learn some the hard way. And so you really do want to make sure every encounter is respectful, even if you don’t want to see somebody again, you know, I’ve personally run into people over and over and over again that I didn’t plan to see again.

Very, very much so.

Yes. There’s a lot of social graces that you have to be aware of.

It’s a new etiquette, a new subculture that comes with almost its own, what’s it called, I guess, Bill of Freedom? I don’t know what you want to call it. It’s just we come as lifestyle, you’re expected to be non-judgmental towards others and accepting.

And it’s kind of like, it’s like these unwritten but written rules. Because like, if you violate them, like it’s a serious thing. But like, so your podcast, my content, because I have a podcast and a YouTube channel is really here to try and educate people so that they can be the big thrive in this lifestyle. They’re not going to fumble the ball and fuck up and lose their erection to a free condom that was, you know, one size too small. If they follow us, they’re going to be in better shape. Agreed? Agreed.

Absolutely. Because those opportunities are very fleeting sometimes, because the average swinger is really only in the lifestyle about 18 months. They get in and they get out. It’s pretty rare that somebody stays in the community for years and years.

Really? I didn’t know that. Yeah. Is that like a personal anecdote or is it something you’ve seen in your research?

We have a really good friend who’s a lifestyle promoter. She throws parties. She used to do it every month, but she does three big events where she gathers 6 to 800 people for every event, three or four times a year. And she’s been doing this for 20 years. And that’s the 6-6 that she gave us when she sees the turnover. It’s pretty incredible.

Interesting. Interesting.

Because I know that for me, I’ve been in the lifestyle for about three years now, roughly. So I know what I see and what I don’t see, but I don’t know what happens when they leave the club, the sex club. I see the happy swingers at the sex club, but I don’t have to go home with them and have the feels. So it’s interesting to think that some people can spend a few years doing this. And it doesn’t mean that they’re forever like, they’re always swingers, that they can actually just fluidly go in and out. That’s good for some people to hear.

We talk about it from the standpoint that you can get to a point in the lifestyle where you’re just not comfortable with it anymore, or it doesn’t do anything for you. And it’s okay. You can change hobbies. You don’t have to stick with it just because you started down the path. And how you play can drastically change from month to month to year to year. So make it what is comfortable for you.

You say how you play could change. Can you explain?

Yeah. So you may start off, we started off soft swap because full swap was too intimidating. Didn’t know what was really going to happen. And we quickly moved into full swap after a few experiences because it really didn’t seem like that was a difficult transition. It really seemed kind of natural. And it also depends on your situation and the couple you’re with.

And so now we, gosh, we’re in it about 10 years. And I’m growing comfortable with just watching. And watching was very difficult for me in the very beginning. And now with the right couple in the right environment, there are certain parties that

there are familiar faces and the environment’s familiar. And I’m comfortable in that environment where I can just sit back and eat popcorn and watch it and have sex with somebody. And that’s totally fine. I’m loving it. And so that’s very new to me in the last six months. So that’s kind of cool and new. And I didn’t think I was bi either. And so now I define myself as bi. I’m enjoying more woman experiences and I’m really wanting to seek that out. Like I’m actively wanting to have those more of those experiences. I’ve had enough dick. I think I just want some more pussy.

Wow. I do have to say that most women I know who have identified as straight changed when they entered the lifestyle. But like, for example, I have, I was, I had never had even an interest in women. And then now I like, you know, I like the best of them. I don’t know. It happened quickly, you know, and my friend are my YouTube channel, straight woman has never had, she has, she said that she had a phobia of the vagina. She’s like, it’s just like, I don’t want to go in there. Like she just, no. Anyway, she found herself in a kind of like a frontal situation with another woman and another guy. They all are into each other individually and as a group. And she’s like into this specific woman. And she’s like, what the fuck? Like what the fuck? Like I was straight, you know? And she’s like, what does this mean? And I was like, you know what? It doesn’t fucking mean anything. Because once we stop putting ourselves in these little tiny boxes, and we instead pursue like a lifestyle of hedonistic pleasure or hedonism, suddenly we don’t have to keep defining what pleasure currently is to us. We can just say that we’ve decided to seek a leg of pleasure, a life of pleasure. And we don’t have to keep changing what that means to us, you know?

Oh, yeah, I like that. We don’t have to, we just decide to seek a life of pleasure. I like that. Yeah. Yeah, I had that identity crisis years ago. And you know, you the definitions of, you know, oh, gosh, I’m bi from the waist up, I’m bi for the waist down, or I’m bi selectively bi or blah, you know, and the definition on the profile changed so many times. And then finally, I just said, ah, screw it. I’m just gonna say I’m bi. And really honestly, took one of my friends to say, you know, just because you like women, you find them attractive, and you enjoy kissing them and fondling their breasts and whatever else that you find pleasurable doesn’t mean you’re into all women. So don’t put pressure on yourself. Like you go to a party and just because you have identify that or you’ve got that on your profile, that all of a sudden, every woman’s going to be attractive and that you need to get with every woman. And because she’s like, you don’t want to get with every man. And I go, no, she’s like, well, there you go. And for some reason, once that she said it, the pressure was lifted off. And then I was like, All right, I’m free.

Yeah, well, what I found interesting is most of my female friends in the lifestyle, I don’t I don’t play with, you’re just the girl that fucks beside me. You know, and so I’m also bi, but I’m like, I’m not gonna be bi with you.

So it’s just funny how, how much at the beginning, I thought it was so much about sex, but you can exist as a person in this lifestyle and have your sexual contribution be secondary. You know?

Yeah,

yeah, right. I really love our community. And so much of sexuality is is fluid from day to day from event to event, you know, sometimes you just don’t feel sexy.

And or you don’t feel that anybody else is sexy, which is often the case.

So, you know, it’s okay to just hang out and have a drink and have sexy conversation. Maybe, maybe not tonight, but maybe next time. So you kind of leave the door open. And I think that’s the thing that we really enjoy about the lifestyle is it’s okay, whatever thing you have, whatever sexuality you have at the moment, at that time, everybody’s gonna be like, cool, good for you. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. It’s true. It’s true. I can be like, I’ve decided to be, you know, a mop diver today. Like, why do you know people say, okay, great. Like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, people really don’t judge. And it’s like, that’s what’s happened when you get people a blank slate, you know, of judgment free arena, and even play where you want. Suddenly, they want to play in places they didn’t know they wanted to play in.

Oh, for sure.

And I happen, I happen to mention this almost everywhere I go, because it’s so important. But every straight man also that are identified man has also confessed to me that they have either already sex dick or they want to suck dick. I have found I like to say it this way, like, there’s usually just one male exception that I have, that has never really confided in me that that has been something you want. But the the what I’m finding is the more sexuality becomes more comfortable, and the more group dynamics come. Suddenly, it’s so much, it’s not so much about that. It’s a guy, it’s a sexual organ. It’s it’s John’s penis instead of a dick. You know, it’s just like, you’re allowed to touch and make moaning sound, you know, and it just becomes guys, I’m telling you that they are just as fluid as we are when we join this lifestyle, the more the more you don’t judge them, you know, and I just love it to love to see it because I feel bad for even, you know, being closeted or helping the closeted feeling any any any amount of my life, because that time is over, you know, and it’s time to, to get out and live your life.

So I agree.

I agree. Time to explore.

I know. I want to know about Toronto.

So I am, you know, in the sex positive lifestyle downtown Toronto, which is in Canada, very cold in the winter. But we have luckily about five or four or five different sex clubs in the same, I would say 20 30 minute drive. Yeah, so we’re very fortunate to the point where we’re like, what mood are you in? Do you want to dance or do like we have those kind of problems to decide which sex club vibe we’re into that night. Right. Like, you know, we’re feasting. Where are you from? What’s California?

And we’re in Sacramento.

Okay, well, I know many swingers in California, but it sounds like you just don’t have the clubs, right?

Yeah, in our particular county in Sacramento, we are not allowed to have sex clubs. As a matter of fact, strip clubs won’t even allow you to serve alcohol at the same time. So if there’s naked boobies or naked full nudity, there is no alcohol.

Yeah, it sucks. And that is also true in the county where San Francisco is.

Yeah, yeah. Most strip clubs are pretty limited in terms of what you can do. But in terms of swing clubs,

Sacramento County will not allow any kind of sex clubs. But San Francisco does get away with it. And they have we have one club there called twist. It’s quite popular because it’s the only one that’s the only game in town.

Yeah.

Yeah, we like that club. It’s, it’s nice. They have a DJ, they have food, they have a little fireplace in there. They have a stripper pole dance floor. And then these this locker room that is kind of in the middle where you transition from the dance floor and the bar area. And it’s of course it’s BYOB.

And then you you put your stuff in the lockers and you put on a towel and you head to the playroom. And it’s like a Sultan’s, oh gosh, bedroom. There’s the floors are just covered with, you know, nice beds and sheets and stuff. And there’s curtains and the lighting is all moody and sexy. It’s fabulous. And it’s, wow, it’s very popular.

Fantastic.

Well, we have like five. So I’ll tell you my favorite one is a waste Aqua lounge. It’s downtown Toronto. It is a kind of a taken over old mansion with three floors. And it has this outdoor heated pool open all year round. And so I was there, you know, twice this week already. And the steam would just be rising off our bodies to the point where I was like, look, I’m an angel because the steam and like when you’re making out in the steam of it is just fantastic. It is spectacular. And then you go in, there’s a sauna, a hot tub. There’s multiple floors, different playrooms and dungeon. They have spectators, you know, so there’s lots of lots to do. So that’s where I like to go the most. We also have the X club and YX lounge and four, which are more dance club type of there’s no pool. There’s no spa. And there’s, they all have a different feel to them. So some of them are nightclub dance clubs with a back room. Some of them are more swing or social clubs. And M4, I find to be a bit more in your face intense in terms of they have like structured three or four hour events and then they close the club. They clean it for like a couple hours and they open it for another structured time. And so that’s different than always as a waste as you pay for all day, you go in and out, people leave for dinner, go back. It’s relaxing. And for you’re there for gang bang retreat, essentially, you know, so it’s whatever you’re in the mood for. If you need to get, you know, something quick, maybe that’s the mood you’re in. But so luckily, just in case any of your listeners know, don’t know or viewers, I have done some video tours of all of these clubs in Toronto and the surrounding area. And I put them on YouTube so that everybody can see the inside of these clubs, including the areas when they were closed, because honestly, I is how could you not take a peek, you know, and there’s glory holes, there’s female glory holes at Club M4, where you could stick your ass pussy in at one side and just, you know, wait for something to happen on the other. It’s just it’s fantastic to see the variety that’s offered. So as a single woman in the lifestyle, I’m able to go to these clubs with my friends, we get dressed up and dance sometimes. So it’s just kind of like normal clubbing life, but with the, you know, the elevated level of sex positive. And we don’t feel judged anymore. We don’t feel judged by our bodies. And so we I shake it as if there’s no jiggle, where there shouldn’t be jiggle. And it doesn’t matter, because it’s finally, you know, you take the benefits of the sex positive swing or lifestyle, which is the accepting environment. And you add that into, you know, now you’re clubbing. And now I’m dancing on a stripper pole, like I give zero shit how it looks, you know, before I might feel more self-conscious. Now, this time, I’m just letting my hair fly.

So I love it.

So I was in culture in Toronto.

Well, how about, you know, how it sounds very safe, sounds like you’re having a great time with your friends. And so then is the single male element not rude? Are they respectful? Do you have to worry about that? So many people are concerned about that dynamic in the club. Talk about some of that.

So every club has different rules about single men. But for the most part, there’s usually nights of the week where they’re not allowed. So for a waist stock lounge, they’re not allowed Fridays or Saturdays.

And so it’s just couples and single women those nights. Then there’s other nights where men are allowed, but they might not be allowed on the third floor of Oasis, which is basically where all the sex happens, unless they’re with somebody, a partner of the opposite sex. So there’s even if they’re allowed in the club, they’re still not allowed in certain spaces. And that’s because when you do allow single men into all of the club, those are what we call DTF nights. And they walk around holding their dick watching everyone and not everyone’s in the mood for that. So, you know, we kind of keep those two very intense nights, let the single men roam free those nights. And then, you know,

give me a little more eye contact the next time I hang out here. So I love the theme nights, though. But one of the most surprising things you will learn about sex clubs is that the single women from I’m a single woman and I have single women friends and there is consensus. Okay, we do not like sex clubs when single men are not allowed because the amount of attention we get when it’s just couples and us is insufficient.

I went to do it three days ago. Unicorn night, pussy was shaved. I was in the right mood. I came home empty handed. Think about that. Single woman wearing a unicorn horn on unicorn night. No one asks for sex.

Oh, wow.

Oh, my God.

I would need more connection, but still no one asked, you know, um, I’m telling you, this is why we go with single men are there. So even if you’re a couple looking for a unicorn, go on nights when single men are there. That’s where they are because we don’t want to work so fucking hard. I don’t want to have to go through one woman just to get a dick. I can get a dick on my own, you know?

Right. That makes sense. Interesting. And well, what’s a little surprising about that is the whole name unicorn came about from the rarity, like the impossible, you know, hunt.

And yet here you were, gorgeous unicorn walking around a club and nobody was trying to bang you like, well, there was probably somebody, but you clearly went home empty handed, so to speak. So wow. Yeah, that’s interesting.

And it’s not a fluke. I have a YouTube video because I blog about going to sex clubs. I don’t know if you guys, if your viewers or even, you know that I actually blog every time I go to a sex club that before I say what I’m nervous about, whatever, or who I’m meeting. And then I show the after and sometimes it’s a good night. Sometimes it’s not a good night, but I have gone to many unicorn nights. Some were fantastic and some I titled the video. Was it unicorn or third wheel night?

Let’s just say there’s a little bit of a misconception about how unicorns are our approach. And maybe it’s because with maybe a ratio of five unicorns for her 50 to 70 couples, maybe no one thinks that’s worth their effort because there’s so much competition. Therefore, no one fucking asks. Like I have people who are friendly and inquire if I was open to playing like later or whatever, but no one had on me. No, I was kicked. Here’s the other thing. That kind of was weird. I had a couple I knew who I might sleep with and a couple that I, that were viewers to my channel and I had introduced them as a potential match because I’m a matchmaker in the club. And I thought, Hmm, I could be with both of them so I could have a five stem. Like I’m leveling up here, you know? And what’s funny is it fell apart. It fell apart. They, both couples hooked up, but with different people and I was left with nothing in my vagina. And I was like, okay, I want them empty handed.

So I’m telling you, us unicorns can strike out too.

That’s so interesting because I keep hearing over and over and over again, how couples start off with a third and the third is usually a woman. And so I guess, I don’t know. I gotta be hit and miss.

I wonder if either the dynamic in the lifestyle has changed over time from like when we first started where that was really the thing or it’s just too intimidating to walk up to an attractive single woman and make that connection. Like maybe everybody feels safer behind a keyboard making that connection. Yeah.

That’s the thing about the lifestyle too is you really have to grow into your confidence. We did that as well. If you’re an introvert, we both identify as introverts, but we’ve learned to be amnoverts and we have to turn it on. It’s almost like I step into an acting job. It’s not, but it’s not who I really am 24 seven. Right? I prefer to be quiet and then to myself, but in the right social setting, I need a lot of activity, a lot of stimulation to bring me up because it’s very, a lot of social interaction can be depleting. So if there’s not a lot of music, a lot of people, I have to feed off of that. Maybe I’m a social vampire. I don’t know what you call that, but it’s draining. And so I’ve learned to adapt, right? Because you have to, it’s a social environment. You have to be able to do that and ask for what you want. I never used to ask for what I want. I got tired of having shitty sexual experiences and I was like, screw that. I’m going to say, do this. I want that, you know, harder, faster, slower, you know, flip me over, right? Because we’re there to have a pleasurable experience. And if you can’t ask for what you want, you’re going to be disappointed because someone once said a long time ago, you’re in charge of your own orgasm.

Right?

So the lifestyle has really taught me to be very confident, be more of an extrovert and ask for what I want.

And to learn what you want. I know a lot of people and I help them fulfill their fantasies. I was like, so what can I cook up with? And they’re like,

well, do you like rough sex? They’re like,

what do you mean? Like not everyone. Some people know. But the look of the look of pondering on people’s faces when you ask them what they like in sex is confusing to me because I’m like, wow, we’ve got so far ago still.

But then when we land the plate, they’re like, okay, I want this and I want to be touched and I want to be reaffirmations. I don’t want to grieving. They can be clear. Then I do my little hustle thingy, which again is not for money. I do this for promo, whatever, for what does that work?

Pro bono.

Pro bono. Pro boner.

I like that.

Right. So I basically match make out these clubs and my friends, I help them have gang bangs and stuff on the DTF. I set the sex club down to fuck night. And so I met their order. I’m like, okay, so you want, you know, you want to be choked. You want, you know, be called a dirty whore. Like, so one girl, and I’m telling you, I had so much going on that I had to go whiteboard because I would have to write down one girl’s rules, limits, whatever on one side, and then turn it around. The other one says no anal color or more like, you know, the other what they want. I would literally set this whiteboard up and greet men with the, you know, onboarding that they needed to be invited into the gang bang. And I would monitor it. I would make sure condoms would use and the exact experience they wanted.

So this is so cool. Wait, so then where did this take place in the club or in a, like at a hotel that you arranged?

It started with my dry spell, you know, like I was getting any and I was looking around and I was like, you know, you can just help you see something, you see something, you’re like, I’m an extra, I’m an extrovert, right? I’m somebody who’s like a matchmaker, you know, I can do this. And so I’m like, if only that person would talk to that person or, you know, and so now I wasn’t having sex, I didn’t have sex for a few months and I was still going to the clubs regularly. And so I would be using my time to help my friends fucking stuff. But I got so much fulfillment out of it, like truly enjoyed watching and helping and facilitating because I also taught them how to, I don’t want to, you know, sound like I have an ego, but how to be better at sex for themselves too. And so one of the examples is I was because I lean over these situations, I’m part of them at the scene, even if I’m not touching. And so sometimes I’ll say to the, to the woman, you know, are you enjoying it? And I’m gonna make sure you let him know that, right? Because if she’s sitting there not saying anything, the guy’s not getting any feedback. I’m like the voice. I’m the third wheel. I’m the backseat driver being like, Hey, have you said his dick feels nice yet? Because I haven’t heard it. And she’s like, Oh, it feels good, right? And then I’m like, you know, is he doing a good job eating you out? And she’s like, you know, like, what could he do differently? Oh, a little more pressure. And so he’s like, Oh, yeah. So I’m like, okay, she’s learning how to ask for what she wants. And he’s, and she’s also giving him or her the opportunity to deliver, which is always a hard thing for these people to map, you know, so that’s so cool.

I like what you’re doing. That’s I’m, you’re marketing this right as a service, because I think this is really important. You’re like sex coach with,

gosh, the other word.

You just call yourself a sex catalyst.

Yeah, you just kick the party off.

She’s like also like a boner and pussy whisperer too. That too.

She’s like, and here’s the fun part. I also have some people who I dominate in the middle of these scenes that I run. So one of them is that as a woman named, I call her Miss Jyla Valentine. She’s in a male-female partnership. And sometimes they come to the club together and she wants a gang bang on her husband, her boyfriend wants to either watch or help participate. And so I’ll pick the men all, you know, run the thing, but then I’ll walk in and I’ll grab her hair and I’ll, are you being a good girl for them? And I’ll like shove her head on their dick and make them, you know, I’ll make, I’ll make, don’t, don’t be gentle with her. Like I’ll walk around and be like, make sure you treat her like a slut or she won’t feel good tonight. Like I’m literally like mental fuck, like mental psychology, mental mind fucks to be like giving them the psychological shit that they ask for. Like not that she wants me to call her a slut. Exactly. You know, so I was like getting so much fulfillment out of literally just pushing her, pulling her hair, like slapping her ass. Like I would finger her while she was like taking a bunch of men’s dicks in their mouth. And at one point I heard her talking and I said, if I can hear you speaking, you’re not sucking dick.

So if that was her clue to get back on the dick, cause I wasn’t there to, you know, have a mediocre slut, I was there to offer up a high class slut. And so that’s how I would treat her in front of people. Right? Because we have this dynamic where this is just how it goes. Right? I’m not a horrible person. I just, we have this dynamic. So yeah, there’s so much more to it sometimes than just for me watching and helping match me. Sometimes I’m in the middle of it.

Nice.

Yeah. It’s like sexual fantasy Island.

Yeah. I’m not a sexual fantasy consultant, maybe. Or like, you know, like how do you, cause I can give advice, for example, here’s a great example. Uh, somebody I know in the lifestyle confessed after some reluctance, you know, reluctance their fantasy and they said, don’t worry. I’ve asked my husband to go make sure it happens. And so she told me what it was and I was like, Oh, that’s that it can’t happen that way. I’m sorry. It can’t happen that way. What, you know, she wanted to be alone. She wanted to be standing in the sex club and she wanted a man to come up behind her and not say anything to her and like grab her finger, her, whatever. Don’t. And I was like, honey, they don’t have consent. He can get, no, your husband can’t get consent. So you would need to have a consensual discussion, maybe in the hallway with some people, give them your fantasy, let them come and discover you. I’m like, that’s the only way that this would be. And I said, if you otherwise tried, you may go home with not getting fucked and not know why. And it’s not because you’re not attractive. It’s because people don’t want to go to jail. Like people don’t want to be like, Oh, I’m gonna, is that the right girl that I’m supposed to walk up to and just finger? Is that one or that one? You know, no, no, no one’s going to do that. Hopefully. So I like to help people because sometimes their fantasies are their fantasies. But when you try to actually bring them to life, they don’t see the, I would call them workflow issues.

Yeah.

They’re a workflow analyst by day. So fantasy director by day.

Right.

But yeah, it’s, it’s one of those things where I like to help because I want them to have those fantasies and they don’t know very, they can’t.

That’s fabulous. And, and, and I’ve heard several podcasts try husbands, coordinate gang bangs for their women and it is work. I mean, there is some definite coordination to that. And I commend you for, for doing that for others because that’s fabulous. I mean, they get to show up for the fantasy and they don’t have to do, you know, all that vetting and that’s planning. That’s pretty nice.

And here’s an extra element that I didn’t mention yet, but I actually have a very, I don’t know how to word this, but I come across on my whole YouTube channel with a very, like an admiration and respect for men. I studied women’s studies in university and wrote papers on how men were oppressed under patriarchy because it’s also worth mentioning, not just the other side. Right. And so I have always been in this lifestyle to represent the single man as well and their needs and their issues too. And so when I run a scene, I have hard limits for my, for the people I help because they have hard limits, no anal, right? Whatever. My hard limit is that I’m not there to ruin anyone’s night. And if someone is not welcome at a gang bang, there’s polite ways to disinvite them or not to embarrass anybody. If their dick doesn’t work, like I say this to the people and they consent before I’ll continue because these are real people, real guys that have shown up to take a chance and I see the nervousness and vulnerability in them where maybe other people don’t.

Right.

And I’m an empath too. I feel it. Right. And so for me, I want those men, no matter if their dick fails them or not to feel supported, to feel invited and that they were part of something fun and not that they are, you know, I’m not gonna lie, I’ve seen people discard men in the middle of a scene because their dick went down. Oh, you can imagine that that happens because they have, you know, oh, your dick’s now we need a new dick. We need to do a dick. I know that, you know, I understand but that poor person now is going to go home with that feeling of being worth nothing more than his erection.

Right.

Right. And so I’m just, I couldn’t, I couldn’t facilitate something like that. So for me, I like that it’s really well balanced on all of the sides as well. And I also ask the men, what is it that you like? Do you want to come in or, you know, do you want to come in or, well, they’re looking for somebody to come in on their throat. Like let me match you up because it’s, it’s the guys are there for something too.

Yeah.

Wow. I love that.

Nobody does that. Checking calendar and travel trips to Toronto.

Yeah. If you do come to Toronto, I would be happy to facilitate whichever scene you could come up with. I would have to be able to weigh in on the night that you show up because you can’t have a gang then on like a random Monday.

You could have the right players in the club to do something like that happen for sure.

So one of the clubs is a spa and like scenario. The other one is more of a get down, get busy, you know, and, you know, every three or four hours, then, then they have to clean it from the next group of people that come in. What about there’s three more clubs, right?

Yeah. So then there’s NYX lounge and the X club, which are similar in that they are, you know, they have a nice DJ, uh, there’s a dance floor, a bar, you know, lounge area, and then X club, they have the back room where you have to go change, you know, you get out of your street clothes, change into either lingerie, make it a towel, whatnot. And then you can go into the back play areas. NYX, NYX lounge is similar. There is some play areas amongst the crowd above them, but you can see them. That’s different than the other ones. Otherwise they’re kind of similar. Um, I would say M club, M four sometimes has a dance floor, but sometimes you show up and that whole part of the club’s closed. So like it’s a, it’s hit or miss when the dance floor is even open. So yeah. So those are the ones that I have been to, I could describe. Yeah.

Are the dance, are the, uh, playrooms all equally nice and clean and all that?

Um, they’re not all equally private. I mean, that’s what’s interesting is, is NYX lounge, all the beds had these curtain thingies that you could just close. Like it’s like your princess bed, right? You don’t have that privacy out of aces. Oasis. There is no privacy unless you reserve the fourth floor private room, which is first comforter served, you know? And so otherwise there’s no privacy or you’re in sight of people.

I like that though. So most of the clubs are, yeah, that makes sense. Twist isn’t private like that. It has a few cubbies, so to speak, where you can do private things, but for the most part it’s all out in the open, which is what we love. We’re exhibitionists. So that fits the bill for, for us.

So yeah.

I have to mention one thing about the introverts. So I, I met some introverted people at the club the other day and I was just, I was my own comedian self and I was talking about how I can’t wait to do a video on how the introverts can survive at a sex club. And I, and I hid myself behind the curtain and I was like, you can watch from behind the curtain. Like I was like, you know, socializing,

because it’s a real struggle, right? Like introverts have a real struggle to be around all of this stuff, but.

The thing that helped us the most was to just keep going. And eventually the environment started to become more comfortable because the scene was comfortable. It became predictable. The crowd became predictable. And with that level of comfort, then I could relax and be, you know, more open and more, you know, more extroverted.

And the, the number one kind of trick or tip that we throw out for new swingers or people who are maybe going for the first time to some new environment is introduce yourself to at least one couple, at least one couple. That’s, that’s your commitment for the night and what it does, it’s, it forces you to break the ice and start the ball rolling. Cause once you’ve had that conversation, you loosen up a little bit, you have some fun, and then you go, Oh, there’s another cute couple. And I’ve already done this one. So I kind of feel okay. And then you go and have more fun.

I did video tours of all the sex clubs. And I actually mentioned on some of my videos about you need to know where you can cry. If you’re a girl and you need a moment, you need to know if there’s a spot where you could go and like have a moment because I’ve cried for a few reasons, not related to necessarily anything at the club. But if you’re having an anxiety attack, if you’re an introvert, I need to get that a minute away.

I feel like that’s the kind of stuff that would help with on my channel to be like, these are the clubs that I recommend if you’re introverted, because there is privacy and there is quiet spaces, right? Or versus the other ones that don’t. So yeah, this is a good topic I’ll probably bring up. And when I do it, you’ll know it’s a bit of a wink to you guys.

Awesome.

I did just start my own podcast, which is called Sex and Swinging with Toronto Unicorn. It’s on all of the same streaming sites, I’m sure that you guys are. And basically, I am using it as a way to walk people through the swimmer lifestyle, from my single woman perspective, in a really, I would say hopefully vulgarly charming way. I’m not your, you know, polished, book smart kind of girl. Like I am university educated, but I talk street smart. And that is how I roll. So that’s how I that’s how I educate. And, and I hope people check out the podcast as well as my YouTube channel, and see what it’s like to actually live day to day as a swinger when I show my life up through blogs and storytime videos, some of them that have gotten my channel strikes. Yeah.

Nice.

Nice.

I stressed that out of YouTube jail today, because I was I was in jail again for a week.

Oh, no.

That’s when you know you’re doing a good job.

Yeah, that’s when I know I need to go to a fucking podcast so that I can effing swear, you know what I’m saying?

Absolutely.

But yes, thetranagunifern.com has all of my links. So I want to ask you guys some stuff now. You ready?

Yeah.

So did you start with a woman between you? Did you have a couple of talk like talking about that?

No, that was way too threatening. For everybody, it’s like the thing. But for me, that was like, Oh, heck no. That that was like, I am not comfortable with any other woman being with my man. And because I wasn’t identifying as bi, you know, it wasn’t it wasn’t comfortable for me. So we just started off as, you know, same room soft swap with, you know,

actually, it was more like a same room, same bed with a little,

you know, touching. But before you touched, you would have to ask, you know, can I touch your boo, you know, right? So it was very progressive for the first, I don’t know, four or five experiences. But then once we kind of figured that out, it was it was no turning back.

Yeah. Yeah.

And then you did it now you do full swap stuff, right? Yes.

Yeah. But we also really love soft swap. And we know a lot of couples that will only, you know,

play unless you’re a full swap couple. Oh, we don’t care because there’s so many fun things you can do without penetrative sex. I mean,

the menu is vast of those experiences. And for me, it’s about the pleasure. It’s not about penetration. So I mean, I can have a really great time without penetration. So it’s, you know, we never take that off the table.

And that’s what’s so great with the lifestyle is that you can, as long as you’re upfront about what you’re looking for, you don’t have to be on a you don’t have to be apologetic about it, you can just match with people who are where you’re at and what you’re looking for what you’re looking for. And, and that’s why I don’t shame any, any of the couples for all their rules, even though the sass in my voice when you hear my podcast talks about, especially episode six, I think it’s called how to be safe emotionally and physically in the lifestyle. How can you, how can you possibly let your husband or someone out like, like, I’ll talk about it, how could you do it? And so what I, one of the, one of the phrases I said is, you know, people come in with all these rules, right, about no kissing, you know, no penetration, whatever. And I, and I like to say it as a single woman. I said, well, you know, I would never want to join a couple who had a no kissing role, for example, because to me that just screams of insecurity. And I don’t want to feel like I’m joining an ounce of insecurity. I want to be cherished, invited. I want a red carpet rolled straight to the deck. You know, I want to feel completely

cherished as a guest and not, oh, it worked this whole no, but that whole no, fuck off. It’s all or nothing. That’s how I feel. I get a bit unapologetic about it. But it’s because I’ve learned also that as a single woman unicorn, I’ve had, I’ve had in the middle of sex, somebody declined to kiss me when I went to kiss them because they had decided that they didn’t like that and didn’t want to. And again, everyone learns where their boundary is and that’s fine. But learning that, taking that away from me, it was like, yeah, I don’t want to feel like I’m only, you know, wanted for one whole.

Right.

Right.

You know, so I guess for me, that wasn’t a match, but yeah.

Yeah, it’s, it’s, I think the most challenging part is that when you’re, when you’re still experiencing things and trying to navigate through and figure out, do I like this? Do I like that? And, you know, and the rules change and the boundaries change so can change so quickly. It almost felt like we were constantly updating our profile. And at one point, you know, even though we advocate for making your profile as current as it can be, shit changed so, so fast, you know, and so people will read the profile and they’re like, well, I thought you were into this. Well, you know, that that changed last week with the last experience and now I’m into this. Right. So like, that’s where the communication comes in and almost honestly,

meeting people face to face and having that communication. What do you like? That, that’s, you know, that’s your elevator speech right there. Don’t rely on the profile. This is what I want. This is what I’m into. And you go from there because they’re right there, right? And you have that communication right there. We’ve had had a few bait and switch situations where, you know, we think they’re all on board and then all of a sudden we get back to the room and the woman’s like, oh no, I just want to watch. And you’re like, wait, what? So poor Ed is now lounging on the bed, watching me and we’re like, wait, we didn’t sign up for that scenario.

So not that I didn’t enjoy watching her, but it would have been nice to have had a little more interaction.

Yeah. Yeah. So as a result, you know, once we discovered that, that, that nothing was going to be going on with, with the other woman and Ed, I’m like, Oh heck no. I’m like, okay, I’m cutting this short. Like, because I didn’t want Ed to feel left out. Right. And I’m like, wait a minute. What, what happened with this transaction here? So we’re like, okay, I’m done.

I’ve seen some bisexual women only, it’s only happened once in front of me, but basically she went for a couple solely to have the woman without telling the man that I wouldn’t acknowledge him in the threesome just was like, you know, and I just felt terrible for the guy. Like I was like, Oh my God, like that’s, I feel bad for the, from the unicorn side to have for somebody to selfishly do that. That’s not fair. Like he just wanted to eat pussy that badly, I guess. But, but that’s still, that’s not ethical. Like, you know what I mean? That’s not consensual when you’re coming in. So I want to join the two of you, but you know, you get the fuck you sit over there. Your Dick’s not welcome. I would not like that either.

Yeah. And I, I, I’m reading about that a lot on the Facebook groups. That tends to happen a lot. And it’s, it’s really frustrating. And I guess, I mean, we did encounter some of that too. What, what’s been the most challenging hands down is meeting people online. You go for a coffee date or a drink date or whatever kind of dinner date thing. And it just never plays out. You spend all that time getting ready, get all worked up. You think the communication was great. You get there and it’s want, want, or they change their mind, or there’s a bait and switch or whatever. And I’m like, you know what, screw that. I’m done with that. I’m just going to meet the person in real life. I can read their nonverbal communication. I can flirt with them and give them the kissing test. And if they pass, then we’re on. But if not, you know what, there’s 60 other people here at this party that, you know, are potentially available. And so then you just move to the next one and then you’re like, you know, your night’s not ruined. And hopefully you, you can have, uh, you know, the experience that maybe you are, we’re looking for.

That’s what I love about clubs is as everyone who’s online with a profile, who is within vicinity of a club, I’m like, get out, get offline, go to the fucking club, because those people also are there to have sex with people on the same night. They have a babysitter, maybe they have, you know, they’ve shown up to the same physical location,

wanting to see, you will never statistically have better odds than that. And so that’s why even if you don’t like the couple that you meet, well, then you go to the bar and you talk to a different couple, you have statistically the most incredible odds at sex clubs, even just to network with other people. And one of the other places that I network that I hope that you guys even, you know, hopefully I see you on there one day, I should also mention, I have been, I have never been paid by Oasis to, to promote them or anything along those lines. I just love it. It just changed my life and I give them a lot of free promotion, but basically they have a virtual platform that was created out of the pandemic and lived on. And so, um, when they closed the sex clubs in Canada, we had this virtual space where people were, we were all really reluctant at first. We show up, we turn on our webcams and it was literally a bunch of swingers in their bedrooms and you can see people fuck. And we were like, it’s virtual swinging. There’s virtual swinging. And at first we’re like, who the fuck would do virtual swinging? But when you don’t have the other alternative in front of you, it’s better than nothing than no swinging. And so there’s something about even just networking with people in the lifestyle going on camera. If you’re an exhibitionist, you know, even just jerking your camera off in front of an audience, some people really enjoy that. Now there’s a place where you can do that and you don’t get blocked, you know, you don’t have to do that by Instagram feed everyone or my DM. So it’s one of those things. The virtual swingers space has been a great, a place of community and connection for me too. And you guys don’t have a club near you. That’s like sex clubs, but hopefully you guys can at least find some virtual spaces to connect because seeing someone, seeing somebody on camera, like even a discord chat or something, if they’re in your area, then you already have a head start. Who cares what the profile says. If you’ve got chemistry a bit, you know, in a way you’re like, okay, as long as you’ve got the charm of the camera, there’s less work to do in person, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah. That sounds fun.

Yeah. Maybe we’ll give that a try. Hmm.

And then I have some questions for you guys as a couple, how you guys have been together 10 years, but swinging for roughly three.

Podcasting for three, swinging for gosh,

nine years, nine or 10.

Yeah. Oh, I got that backwards. Okay. Yeah.

So I would love to know how you keep it safe, how you feel safe being a swing and sharing and evolving because you said you went from soft swap to the, to who, who, who, who box. As long as I got my popcorn, I can watch this fine. That’s evolution. Yeah. I want to know how do you feel safe and how do you continue to feel safe and also any tips that you have that maybe you learned the hard way or whatnot that you could pass along for a new couple that might be, help them be successful?

Safe. You know, safety, our community is really great. I’ve never not felt safe. I’ve felt nervous in the beginning because I didn’t know what to expect. And I thought people were going to attack me, but no one ever did.

There’s always security at every house party that we go to and any kind of club that’s, you know, or we didn’t really have a club. There was kind of a sort of a club here on the down low, but they always had security too. But I guess the bottom line is everyone that runs a house party here always has someone at the front door. And if the party’s really big, they have someone roaming around the party too, to make sure everyone’s safe. They take care of, make sure they take care of people that have, you know, been drinking too much. They don’t let them drive home drunk.

You know, it’s nice. It’s great. It’s just kind of a known fact that you just have someone watching over the crowd so that everyone, you know, feels safe and everyone kind of behaves, right?

Yeah.

But.

And can I drill in and ask specifically, how do you feel safe as an introvert? How do you feel in your relationship to expand and be a smithereens?

Yeah, I think a lot of.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think a lot of the safety that we kind of feel with each other in terms of

being comfortable playing, exposing our relationship to new experiences and potentially things that can risk the marriage, right? Like I think that’s a lot of people’s concern is, and one of our concerns very early on, which was, is this going to break us? Like, is this going to tear us apart? Are we going to lose that special thing that we had by doing this? And we thought about it. And most of kind of the guardrails that we put up with our relationship were

being comfortable talking about anything, no matter how you’re feeling or what you’re going through. You have to be able to bring it up and you have to be comfortable with talking about it. So creating in a sense, a safe space for both people to express their feelings, express their lusts and have the other person be open to hearing about it. And it worked really well for us. We used to sit in the backyard. We’d have a little bonfire going and our little fire pit, sit there with a little glass of whiskey and have long conversations about how we were feeling and how that last event went and how she felt about some interaction that we’d had with a couple.

And we worked through so many of our feelings and our anxieties.

Insecurities.

Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I would always ask Ed after every event, so was her pussy tight? Like, did it feel different? He’s like,

“I didn’t really notice.” He’s like, “It wasn’t any tight or loose than normal.” He’s like, “It was just different.” But I always asked him that because that was my insecurity, right? Someone’s going to feel better, right? Like, “I’m going to be less than.” And then there were certain types of people that I was like, “No, just based on just the way they looked.” I’m like, “She’s out.”

And I didn’t necessarily have a reason. It was just like the way she looked. I’m like, “No.”

Or the way she approached us.

Or the way she approached. So if a woman was very aggressive and very flirty and she didn’t engage with me first, I was very threatened by that and I didn’t like that. And so I learned from that and I thought, “Oh gosh, I don’t want to make sure I don’t make somebody else feel like that.” So trial and error. And then Ed always made me feel very comfortable and safe by his just acceptance and constantly being there. And I would say to him time and time again, “I know what I’m saying isn’t going to make any sense. Logically,

I know XYZ, but my emotional side is going ABC.” I know this doesn’t sound like… And I would have this these weird disconnects of, “I had a really great time, but now the next day my brain’s going,

“Oh, you couldn’t have had a great time because that doesn’t fit with your upbringing and that doesn’t fit with this social setting and that doesn’t fit with this rule brick and all this stuff.” And so then the next day I’d have all this fallout from all the programming that I just grew up with. And then so I had to go through and just remember like, “Yeah, but last night you were fine. You had a great time, right? Yeah. Okay. So then now you’re just mentally fucking yourself with all the rules and BS that you grew up with.” So there was a bit of that to just try and shed the deprogramming of things that it’s not okay to feel great. It’s not okay to prance around naked in front of people. It’s not all that baloney, right? It was insidious. And then the other thing that really made me mad was like I had been in therapy for years, like in my twenties. My whole twenties was just therapy after therapy after therapy. Cause my life was effed and I didn’t really start living my life till I was thirties. And I was like, “Good. I’m good. I’m great. I’m like, I graduated.” I’m like, “I finally got life figured out.” And then we start swinging and I’m like, “What’s this shit coming back up again?” I’m like, “Good.”

So again, but you know what? I like the challenge because I like growth. I don’t like being confined. I don’t like having judgments. I don’t like having, you know, I’m always constantly trying to figure out why did that trigger me? Hmm. Maybe I should look at that. Cause otherwise it just bugs me. It just sits and stews and I don’t like that.

Yeah. And like one of the pieces of advice that I’ll give to new swingers is you don’t know what you’re going to enjoy. You don’t know what’s going to scare you until you actually try it, but you have to be comfortable pulling the rip cord and saying, “Time out. I need to back out of this. We need to talk about this.” And do it gracefully, right? Just go, “I need to get a glass of water, honey. Will you come with me?” And then go offline, go talk about it. Figure it out on your own, but it’s okay to have an oh shit moment and have to talk about it. Like that’s okay. And it’s okay to say, you know, I wasn’t comfortable with this or I was actually really comfortable with this and I wanted to keep going further, but we had this rule, you know, I wasn’t supposed to kiss the unicorn,

but I really want to kiss the unicorn.

What happens if someone forgets and then, you know, the kiss, oh shit, what happens then, right? Right.

So there’s sensitivities here too.

And it’s important to respect each other’s rules and boundaries, right? And not to blow past them. We were just reading about a couple where the husband was constantly doing things that he wasn’t supposed to. And of course the general advice from most of the people in the forum were time to get out. Like that’s not okay.

And people make mistakes in the heat of the moment. You know, you’re turned on, your brain’s not fully working. I mean, the other brain is working full-time.

So like give each other a break sometimes. Somebody’s gonna step out and do something that’s not okay. And in the moment it was a mistake, but give them the benefit of the doubt. Come back together, talk about it, figure it out and go, yeah, I know I got excited and that’s okay. That’s okay. But talk about it. Yeah.

It’s true. And I have one example of, I used to be partnered when I would have swing and experiences. So some of these experiences, I had one where it was a couple, it was a couple of, but it was foursome. It was a foursome. And so I had one guy behind me having sex with me and then the boyfriend, girlfriend in front of me. And we all did this three-way kiss while this other guy was fucking me. And then he told me later that he felt left out. I was like, you were in me.

And he felt left out. Right? But he did. And that was good that he told me that because I would have never known.

Right.

Right. And so in the future, would I do a three-way kiss without him? No, probably not. I would try to make it more inclusive. But, and I just felt it was, it was great of him to tell me that because how can I be a good partner if I don’t even know what I’m doing that could be causing any sort of trigger or issue, you know?

Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s a big risk, especially for couples that have been together for a long time,

the assumption that your partner knows you. Well, they knew you going to, you know, the ball game, going to a vacation, going to a nightclub as a couple, but they don’t know you in the context of swinging with other people and having sex with other people. That is a new context. And you’re going to have to figure out a whole bunch of stuff all over again.

But I just want to say that this lifestyle for me, like you said, at the beginning, I’ll be about it. It’s not just about the sex. One of the biggest takeaways for me as a woman is the, is the bond that I can have with women who still fuck the same man as me, unheard of in vanilla world. If I, if I sat on that dick one time, that guy was off limits to my friends. Yep. Right. And now I’m like, you got to turn his dick. You know, it’s so different. And I, and it’s true. I meet it when I, when I let my friends, you know, know that this guy is great and that I would, you know, he’s a great fuck because I’ve seen my friends, fuck my, my friends, my other friends. And it is absolutely fantastic. So there’s one guy I’m actually sleeping with right now. And the reason I’m sleeping with him is because I watched him fuck my friend and he did such a fantastic job that I got interested and I, and then I, you know, got to know his personality and then I wanted to turn. And so my friend and I talked about it cause I actually was like, you know, just want to do a girl code check-in, making sure you’re not upset. It’s not even his wife, his wife, yeah, the wife, but she’s like, no, no, it’s all good. Because even though I knew it was all good, there’s still something about being like, I’m going to sit on that dick next.

All right. You know that, right?

You know, because then she told me, oh, well, you know, don’t, don’t be afraid to ask for oral. He’s good at it. And I was like, oh, okay, thanks. Think about that. Think about two women in vanilla world, having that conversation over a guy that one of them had sex with, like it would never happen. Not the world that I lived in. And so that is the best part of the spare lifestyle outside of all of the sex is the bond that we can have women, especially without that competition. And when sex finally doesn’t become the thing that separates us from other women, we can finally coexist in a way, in a way that I think men always have in a way. And I think that it’s kind of, it’s kind of nice that we can not be so uptight about sex as much.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. I had, I’ve completely forgotten about that or didn’t ever really look at it like that. And you’re absolutely right. I have that same friendship with somebody and she’s always curating new, new guys. And she’s sending me their, you know, their photos. And she’s like, look who I’m bringing to the party tonight. I’m like, okay, I’ll let you have them first. I always know I get him second.

And so it’s great.

She finds these guys. I’m like, oh, look who she’s bringing to the party tonight.

So yeah, it’s a lot of fun. And you know, it’s, yeah, there’s none of that weirdness there. I just love that. I love it.

I love it. So any last words before we end off the chat?

Yeah, we are going to promote our Costa Rica vacation, which we would love everyone to come to. It’s in Hawko, Costa Rica. It is actually, the country’s actually safer than the United States. So if you have any inhibitions about going to a different country, don’t. The people are wonderful. They have a phrase called pure Vida. It’s kind of like in Australia, like no worries or in Hawaii, what do they say? I don’t know, how, but they, there’s a phrase for just like, whatever, whatever. Right. And so this resort is a small resort. It’s, it’s 20 rooms. And so it’s nice and intimate. You can be naked ever everywhere at the resort, a hundred percent of the time. If you go to, to eat, you know, obviously you just put a towel down and you can be naked at the pool. You can be fucking at the pool. There’ll be pool parties. There are actually two excursions that were going on that are already paid for as part of your price. And then you have free days that you can go do excursions as well. If you, you know, want to hang out with pool, you do. If you want to go zip line or ATV, whatever, you can go do that also. And then free transportation to and from the airport. It’s really an amazing price. And of course, you know, all inclusive food, alcohol, all that stuff. And then the town, the small beach town, Haco is right near the resort and you just walk and go hang out in town if you want, have some great food. It’s safe.

So we’re super excited to be hosting it for people that want to come join us. And we’ll be doing some podcasting there and some classes. Oh yeah. And there’s classes because there’s a, you know, a room, obviously a sex room. And so we’ll have a class on the Sibian. We’ll have a flogging class. We’ll have squirting class. I can’t remember what the other classes are. And then of course, nightly themes too. So we’ll have pole dance lessons,

poker night, poker night. And what’s the other one? We learn how to salsa,

tequila and rum tasting,

and killer rum tasting. We’ve got a lot of stuff. There’s a lot going on. So it’s all designed to bring everybody together to, you know, so that you, you’re spending time together and you’re building those relationships in that sense of community. So we’re super excited. Right.

On top of that, we have our YouTube channel, we have a website. So swingyouruniversity.com. You can get access to all of our, our content and we have a links page as well. So if you’re interested in all of our socials, it’s swinglinks.club. And all of our fun stuff is there, including some of our spicy content, which we don’t put up on the rest of the social media stuff, because we’ll get banned and shut down. And that’s not okay.

Right.

Yeah.

So we, um,

sorry, we didn’t actually mention when the Costa Rica trip is. When are you sure we tell people what?

That’s right. The Costa Rica trip is this June, June 2023.

Awesome. So, and you guys will be there. So they show, if people show up, they’ll be able to meet you.

Yes. Absolutely. Uh, in addition to being in attendance, um, we’re hoping to do some podcasty things there too. And broadcast, I don’t remember how good the wifi was there. We had some problems on the ship, uh, this last time, but the goal is to broadcast while we’re there. Yeah.

That’s so cool.

Thank you guys. This is a thrill to be able to hang out with you virtually and, and, and share stories and tips. We both contribute differently in the same space. And, uh, that’s just like reminiscent of the swing of world, right? Yes. So we all have different choices and different things to contribute. So thank you for doing this full spot with me tonight. This is a different kind of full spot, but I love it.

Well, thank you very much for having us on. We’ve, we’ve enjoyed being on your show and, uh, having you on our show as well.

Thank you so much.