Good Communication Gone Wrong!

[00:03] [Guest] Welcome to Swinger University, your horizontal enrichment program, offering you the naked facts about swinging.
Here are your hosts, Ed and Phoebe.
This is Ed. And this is Phoebe.

[00:23] [Ed] Today we’re talking about a situation that wasn’t so great.
Now, you may find yourself getting into one of these despite all your great communication and lessons that you’ve learned from listening to us throughout life.

[00:46] [Phoebe] Yes, so today we’re going to reveal to you one of these sticky situations that we got ourselves into,
a regardless of, you know, all of our learning experiences.
First, we’re going to set the scene.
We had an engagement with a couple.
Let’s call them Anthony and Gigi.
We were familiar with their online profile.
They had RSVP to an exclusive event that we were going to.
They were friends with the host.
So there was some connection there, some communication there.

[01:35] [Ed] Very, very, very indirect. Nothing face-to-face.

[01:39] [Phoebe] Correct.
Correct.
Because they ended up never showing up at the exclusive event.
But we recognized them at this other venue.
They’re fun, easy to converse with, hospitable, very free with sharing alcohol
buying drinks, things of that nature.

[02:01] [Unknown] Right. Good host.

[02:04] [Phoebe] Very good hosts. Very good hosts.
And at this particular venue, breakfast was a common shared meal.
Right.
And so they invited us over for breakfast.
Again, great conversation. Really, really just nice.
Everything was super fun and fine.

[02:30] [Unknown] The venue happened to be something that somewhere that you can’t escape from them.

[02:37] [Phoebe] You’re seeing this person at all the things, dances, dinners, pool time, things like that.

[02:45] [Ed] The whole deal.

[02:47] [Phoebe] So Anthony and Gigi also knew of another couple that came to this event.
And they were friends with them, they played with them before, and they invited us.
Which was great, and we had conversation.
But Ed and I never really got that vibe from them.
Like, you know, the sexy vibe or the thing that you feel with another couple.

[03:13] [Unknown] Right. Yeah.

[03:16] [Phoebe] So one of the events was this costume party dance.
And it seemed like all these assumptions were being made as we’re sharing, you know, buying drinks and dancing and with one another.

[03:36] [Unknown] And at some point, Anthony asks me about playing that night.
And I said, oh, we’re, I’m out of commission.

[03:50] [Phoebe] That’s all I said. And it goes, oh, she was too at the, for the exclusive party.
That’s why we didn’t go.

[04:01] [Unknown] And I said, great.

[04:04] [Phoebe] So you get it. We’re on the same page.
We’re on the same page. You get it.

[04:09] [Unknown] I said, we’d be happy to just watch if you guys are going to play later.

[04:17] [Phoebe] Right. And I was, I was totally happy to just watch.
Maybe a bystander. Clearly that did not register.
I’m not sure why maybe the music was too loud.
Maybe too much drinking happened after with them.
Was it a cultural thing? Were they just pushy people? Who knows?
I can’t figure that part out.
But that wasn’t the only communication.

[04:43] [Ed] Right. So we thought we were being direct.
We thought we were being clear in our communication.
Phoebe says, I’m out of commission.

[04:55] [Phoebe] We want to watch.

[04:57] [Ed] Yeah. So clearly, even if you assume that someone’s on their period and you don’t really care,
which I have been in that situation before.
But the next part of that was we’re only going to watch.

[05:13] [Phoebe] Right.

[05:14] [Unknown] So they were not connecting.

[05:18] [Phoebe] Right. There was no meaning of the minds.
Like, I thought we get back to their room and they were drinking a lot more.
So there was more drinking. There was more sharing of drinking.

[05:36] [Unknown] There was no way to say no.

[05:40] [Phoebe] I mean, I said no to drinks.
Right.
And to other things.

[05:46] [Ed] And I tried to say no to getting another drink.
I was like, I’m fine. I’ve had plenty to drink.
Right.
And it still ended up with a glass of wine in my hand.

[05:56] [Phoebe] Yes. Yes.
And I couldn’t tell if they were just too drunk and being pushy.
And it was a cultural thing because we did a lot of toasting.
A lot of toasts.
Lots of toasts.
Okay.
This is the third toast.
Why do we have to toast three times?
So I’m like, okay.
Maybe it’s a cultural thing.
I get it.
Or, you know, so maybe they’re just trying to be inclusive.
Right.
I guess that’s what I’m trying to get to.
So I learned as a night progressed to fake sip.
Right.
I just tipped the glass up.

[06:38] [Unknown] I fake sip.

[06:40] [Phoebe] But the first time around, I emptied the glass.
Oh, you filled up your glass.
You filled up your glass.
I was like, shit.
So then I learned very quickly.
Keep the glass full.
Fake sip.
Keep the glass full.
Second round.
Third round goes around.
Oh, you’re got enough.
Right.
They didn’t even notice.
I had no drink.

[07:00] [Ed] Then drink it.
And I did the same thing with that glass of wine where I had a sip.
Literally a sip.
Yeah.
And set it down because no one was looking.

[07:11] [Unknown] Oh, my gosh.

[07:12] [Phoebe] Oh, my gosh.
Oh, my gosh.
Okay.
So now Ed and I are only interested in really one.

[07:22] [Ed] One couple.
One couple.

[07:24] [Phoebe] Three.
Anthony and Gigi.
Right.
Well, yes.
I was being the third.
We’re always interested in our whole every time we get in.
I’m always interested in you.
Yes.
But we decided we were going to watch.
Right.
Because I’m out of commission.
All right.
So we go into the play room.
And here’s in hindsight what we should have done because of the level of drinking.
That was we were observing.
We should have made it clear again that we were only watching.
Right.
We did not.

[08:07] [Ed] And probably not take clothes off.

[08:13] [Phoebe] Right.

[08:14] [Ed] Or kind of participate in that process.
Right.
As much as we potentially did.

[08:21] [Phoebe] Right.
Right.
And the communication also wasn’t passed from Anthony and Gigi to their friends.

[08:34] [Unknown] Right.
There was an assumption made on my part that everybody was on the same page.

[08:41] [Phoebe] Everyone was on the same page.
So there that was my bad right there.
Yeah.
So the other couple had made this assumption.
And they made the assumption that we’re full swap and that we’re all in.
Like, why would they make that assumption without having a conversation with us?
Just because we’re hanging with their friends.
Maybe.
But usually.

[09:05] [Ed] Slip by association.

[09:06] [Unknown] Yeah.
Slip.

[09:08] [Ed] That does happen.
Most of us are.

[09:12] [Unknown] Okay.

[09:13] [Phoebe] So I guess give them a break for that.
I don’t know.
I mean, we didn’t.
We didn’t announce it.
They didn’t ask.
So.

[09:22] [Ed] No, it was.

[09:23] [Phoebe] So mistake never do.

[09:24] [Ed] It wasn’t as clear as we probably should have made.

[09:28] [Phoebe] Correct.
Correct.
We’re all in there.
And I don’t know.

[09:33] [Unknown] Okay.

[09:34] [Phoebe] I don’t know how it happened.
I guess pure pressure is really what happened.

[09:38] [Ed] Yeah.
It comes down to pure pressure where you’re on the bed, you’re naked.
And.
You.
You start.
A getting into the instinctual routine that we do, which is this is how we play.
And then some of it is.
Them asking and asking and asking and.
Kind of wearing you down a little bit.
Right.
No, honestly, we didn’t put up that big a fight, but.

[10:06] [Phoebe] Right.

[10:07] [Ed] It was not what we had agreed to.

[10:11] [Phoebe] Right.
And I think what would happen emotionally was I just felt.
I’ll go into a little bit more in a second.
But I did feel bad about going back on my intent.
And I had just been the truth was I’d just been recovering from a medical procedure.
And I was safe to have sex, but I was.
Wasn’t.
I didn’t.
I hadn’t had sex with it yet.
I hadn’t really tested it out.
So I wanted to, you know, I was.
Nervous about that interaction.
And so when he approached me and put on a condom and I go, oh, I’m not playing.
I did say in the playroom, I’m not playing tonight.

[11:02] [Unknown] I’m on my, you know, my period.

[11:05] [Phoebe] And then he goes, oh, that doesn’t matter.
Exactly what you said earlier.
And I’m like, fuck.
I sure this sets up.
But then the pressure.
And I’m like, well, maybe I’ll be fine.
So when I got on top, thank goodness I was on topic because I had control.
I could tell I was a little sore.
So I cut that interaction off real quick.
Like real quick.
Here I was.
I’m not having sex with anyone.

[11:38] [Unknown] It wasn’t having sex with anyone because the other woman, their friends.

[11:46] [Phoebe] Right.
I felt really threatened by her tonight to this day.
I can’t figure out why.
Sometimes you don’t, you just don’t have a rational reason.
I just didn’t like her.
Yeah.
I can’t explain it.
Just didn’t like her.
Didn’t like him.
Didn’t like her.
That’s all I know.
Yeah.
Somehow she felt threatening.
And I’m like, I’m not going to be okay with that interaction.
So Ed’s not playing because they’re playing, they’re playing.
And in a sense, we’re sort of watching, but then GG.
So I think we’re out of the woods.
And GG starts sucking on it.

[12:25] [Ed] Yeah.

[12:26] [Phoebe] But then he’s not getting the full experience because then the other couple comes up behind GG.
So GG is getting like this whole 69 thing.

[12:37] [Unknown] And you know, where focus goes when you’re getting fucked and trying to suck.

[12:46] [Ed] All right.
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[13:42] [Unknown] Thanks for listening.

[13:47] [Guest] Right out the window.

[13:51] [Ed] Yes, that didn’t work out so well.

[13:53] [Phoebe] Now it’s just all very confusing and yeah.

[14:00] [Ed] Here we are.
All together in the room.
Close have come off.
Things are happening.
And the three of them that were over on our side of the room, my side of the room, started two of them.
Sorry.

[14:17] [Unknown] No, three.

[14:18] [Ed] See, I can’t even count.
Three of them were playing.
But the woman who I was allowed to play with was on the bottom.
So I couldn’t get to her.

[14:31] [Unknown] And the other woman was the only woman that was out and like available.

[14:37] [Phoebe] Right.
Because I was on the other side of the room.

[14:40] [Unknown] Right.

[14:41] [Ed] So yeah, that was awkward.
And so I had a few junior high school dance moments there where I was basically standing by myself.

[14:52] [Phoebe] And so was the other woman, their friend.
She had left and come back, come back with some refreshments.

[15:00] [Ed] She gave me more champagne.

[15:02] [Phoebe] Oh, okay.
Was he?

[15:04] [Unknown] Yeah.
So yeah, it was a little awkward.

[15:09] [Phoebe] Everyone felt, I think everyone felt awkward or underappreciated except for Anthony and Gigi.

[15:18] [Ed] Right, which, you know, we said in our last episode, always fuck the host.
So there you go.
So in addition to the kind of awkward position and, you know, partners not matching up.
There was also this really weird kind of uneasiness that I had because we went into the room with one set of rules.
And very quickly, every single one of those rules was tossed.

[15:46] [Phoebe] Yeah.

[15:47] [Ed] And so I’m like, I don’t know what page I’m on or what I’m supposed to be doing or not doing.
Because this went from watch to full fuck.

[15:56] [Unknown] Right.

[15:57] [Phoebe] Right.

[15:58] [Ed] And that happened so fast.

[16:00] [Phoebe] And that rule got broke before early on in our swinging, but it was a different type of scenario.
Right.
And it was fun then.

[16:09] [Ed] Yeah, we were in the mood for it at the time.
Which of course, you know, brings up a really important point.
Like normally Phoebe and I are like 100% DTF.
Like we’ve gotten to that point where if we like a couple and there’s chemistry,
we will absolutely fuck on the first date.
Yes.
And the second and the third.
So we’re not, you know, we’re not at that point where we hold off.
We hold off or we’re not sure.
Like we’re pretty sure about stuff.
And yet, here was the perfect situation.
Three couples, apparently very horny because we wanted to watch and they wanted to play.
And everybody wanted to play anyway.
But we weren’t in the mood for it because of all of this stuff.

[17:05] [Unknown] So yeah, you, people exchange their minds.

[17:09] [Ed] You have things happen where you have to reassess.
And it’s okay to not be comfortable with a situation and say,
I’m not comfortable with this.

[17:22] [Phoebe] Right.
Perfectly fun.

[17:24] [Unknown] Right.

[17:26] [Phoebe] Well, it got worse from here.
So.
So.
Oh my gosh.
Wait, where are you?
Okay.
Other side of the room.
So.
I’m upset with myself because I didn’t honor my, you know, my body.
And then I went ahead and had sex.
And, you know, it wasn’t, it wasn’t, I wasn’t quite healed enough.
I didn’t feel quite right.
So then I felt awful about having sex.
Then I was worried about, oh my god, did I hurt myself?
So then I’m in my head and I’m not enjoying it.
I’m not enjoying the room.
I’m not enjoying the people.
I’m not enjoying anything about it.

[18:07] [Unknown] And I’m like, I just want the fuck out of here.
Right.

[18:11] [Phoebe] So now.
Oh, I’m like, what the hell happened?
This whole night just went upside down.
Right.
So it was such a quick turnaround.
And I don’t know.
We’re trying to explain it, but the snowball was so fast.
I really, I just.

[18:31] [Ed] I’m dead serious with the description of it.
It went from zero to like full fuck in.
Yeah.
Like four seconds.
Yeah.
It just happened.

[18:41] [Phoebe] Well, and Gigi was fun and flirty and silly and playful and enthusiastic.
Oh yeah.
She was having a ball.
Cute sounds when she’s having sex.
I mean, she reminded me of me.
It was, she was hilarious.
Right.
And it was fun to watch her have sex because at one point we were watching her have sex.

[19:03] [Unknown] Yeah.

[19:05] [Phoebe] And then.
So.
So now I’m laying on the bed with my legs crossed so that nothing happens.

[19:13] [Unknown] And.
You know.

[19:15] [Phoebe] And then.
And so Anthony’s, you know, next to me.
And he’s like stroking me and he’s trying to stick his finger down in there.

[19:21] [Unknown] And I’m thinking, dude, my legs are crossed.

[19:25] [Phoebe] Like nothing’s happening.
Yep.
So it was a little annoyed that he like kept trying.
And I’m thinking, you know, this is, this is not working for me.
Yeah.
So meanwhile, Gigi had come over to the side of the room and started playing with Ed.

[19:43] [Unknown] Right.

[19:45] [Ed] Pretty much attacked me.

[19:46] [Phoebe] Pretty much attacked you.
So now.

[19:49] [Ed] If it weren’t so awkward, it would have been a lot of fun.

[19:52] [Phoebe] Yeah.
Right.
So I’m feeling awkward.
I’m laying there.
I’m not playing.
Anthony’s not playing.
I don’t even know what the other couple is doing.
But Gigi wants to play with Ed.

[20:03] [Unknown] And Ed, you were in your head.

[20:08] [Phoebe] You’re worried about me.
Right.
You’re worried about the rules.
What else were you worried about?

[20:14] [Ed] Trying to get up off the bed.
Because that was not happening.

[20:18] [Unknown] I tried several times and for someone so small.

[20:24] [Phoebe] She, oh, she kept pushing you down.

[20:27] [Ed] Right.

[20:28] [Phoebe] And so now I’m feeling very distant from Ed.
Even though I’m literally in arms length away.
I’m feeling very emotionally distant.
And I’m reaching out to him and I’m touching his hand.
And he’s grabbing for my hand.
And she, this happened two or three times.
Right.

[20:47] [Unknown] She says, she smacks my hand away and goes,

[20:51] [Phoebe] no, he’s mine.

[20:53] [Ed] Right.

[20:54] [Unknown] And I’m like, okay, listeners.

[20:58] [Phoebe] I can tell, I know, I know.
You’re saying, oh hell no, bitch.
Right.
Oh, hell no.
So.

[21:09] [Ed] She did not.

[21:10] [Phoebe] She did not.
So, of course, I didn’t take that well.
And that just, that did not fly.
But I was again confused because I’m like,
what happened to light?
Wait, is she joking?
What happened to light playful Gigi?
She trying to be silly.
But we didn’t know this couple that well.
For her to be joking in that way.
So, I didn’t take it as a joke,
especially since it happened three times.
So, that threw me into a panic.
And I promptly sat up and I said,

[21:44] [Unknown] we’re going to call it a night.

[21:48] [Ed] Exit stage left.
Yep.
So, at that point, I was able to get up
and we gathered our stuff and, you know,

[21:57] [Unknown] said goodbye.

[21:59] [Ed] And, you know, kind of bowed out.

[22:02] [Phoebe] Yeah, but, you know, by the end,
all in all, it felt really shitty.
Yeah.
Just because we were having a good time,
the entire evening, prior to going in the room,
and then everything, like you said,
just went to shit.
Yep.
So, next time, I mean…

[22:32] [Ed] Maybe?
With some, like, really specific guidelines.
Maybe?

[22:41] [Phoebe] I know.
I mean, I have no ill will.
They’re extremely nice people.
But I’m not sure it’s worth a second date,
because even though I can step up my communication
and be very clear and direct,
maybe even call them out with some humor,
I don’t know if they’re going to comply,
especially that I know now how much they like to drink
and how they respond under the influence, right?

[23:17] [Unknown] So, they may say, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[23:23] [Phoebe] But then five drinks later,
they don’t remember a thing.
And that’s a problem for me.
So, that’s breaking one of our rules.

[23:35] [Unknown] If you can’t follow our rules, then…

[23:40] [Ed] Yeah, or follow directions.

[23:42] [Phoebe] Follow directions, yeah.
Then that’s, yeah, can’t.

[23:47] [Unknown] So, probably not next time.

[23:52] [Phoebe] It’s probably strong, very strong, probably no.

[23:57] [Unknown] Right.

[24:00] [Ed] I don’t know if I can take the risk.
I could imagine situations if it’s a large enough group
to kind of work around,
because I didn’t have a problem with her other than the fact
that she wasn’t being particularly respectful,
but I suspect that’s a situational, like,
that moment in time kind of a thing,
but who knows?

[24:23] [Phoebe] I don’t know.

[24:25] [Unknown] I don’t know.

[24:26] [Phoebe] I don’t know, because I didn’t see her with the other guy, so…
Right.
I don’t know how that went.

[24:33] [Ed] Yeah.
So anyway.

[24:35] [Phoebe] Yeah, lessons learned.
For us, these are our lessons.
Communicate intent at least twice,

[24:46] [Unknown] although I think we did that.

[24:49] [Guest] Well.

[24:50] [Phoebe] Maybe before the playroom, which we did,
and in the playroom, we didn’t do it in the playroom.

[24:56] [Ed] Because you can have the conversation about
what’s your playstyle, which communicates the intent for the night.
Right.
But then once you’re in the room,
yeah.

[25:05] [Unknown] If you can clearly, you know,

[25:08] [Ed] look into my eyes and then communicate.
Right.
You should, the second time,
just to make sure that everybody is.
Especially because the first couple you talk to,
and the second and the third,
and you all end up in the same room,
it’s good to have the powwow around the room
because these other couples may not have had that conversation.

[25:30] [Guest] Yeah.

[25:31] [Ed] For example, we didn’t have the conversation
with the other couple,
just with Anthony and Gigi.
So.

[25:38] [Unknown] Right.

[25:39] [Phoebe] That was our bad.
Mm-hmm.

[25:41] [Unknown] So at least twice.

[25:42] [Ed] Once in the playroom, once before.

[25:44] [Phoebe] Right.
Make sure all parties hear your wishes.
The whole look into my eyes.
Exactly.
Don’t assume the other couple communicated your wishes.
You already said that.
And, you know, third,
don’t be too hard on yourselves.
We weren’t too hard on ourselves.
We, what works most of the time,
doesn’t work all the time.
So, you know, give yourselves a break.
We gave ourselves a break.
We took some time to process it and talk through it.
And we were really bummed that it’s happened.
But.

[26:18] [Ed] This is a great episode for the podcast.
Right.

[26:21] [Phoebe] To be honest.
And.
Here’s your lemonade.
We fuck up too.
God damn it.
Yeah.
So.
Yeah, it was a big bummer.
And, you know, it felt crappy.
But.

[26:37] [Ed] On the whole, we still had a great weekend.

[26:40] [Phoebe] We did.

[26:41] [Ed] We did.
A good time.
So, to let like an hour’s worth of time
from that whole weekend kind of overshadow it.
Sucks.

[26:52] [Unknown] But.

[26:53] [Ed] I think we’re coming away with a little perspective from it.
Yeah.
It wasn’t such a bad weekend.

[26:59] [Phoebe] Right.

[27:00] [Unknown] Right.

[27:02] [Phoebe] Though you, in closing, catalog your experience as the new yellow flag.
And then move forward by allowing time to process your feelings.
Talk with your partner.
Journal.
Journaling helps me a lot.
And figure out what went off course.
And then how to correct it.

[27:23] [Ed] Thanks for listening.

[27:25] [Phoebe] Thanks everyone.

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[28:22] [Unknown] Oh, one last thing before you go.

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