Kissing and Telling: Is Sharing Sexy Stories Ever Okay?

[00:00] [Ed] Do you kiss and tell? We do. Why would you kiss and tell? And why wouldn’t you? Is it socially

[00:08] [Phoebe] acceptable? How is it different from the vanilla live versus the swinger live? Welcome to Swinger

[00:19] [Ed] University. I’m Ed. And I’m Phoebe. And today we’re going to talk about kissing and telling.

[00:29] [Phoebe] Yes, it is a controversial topic in the lifestyle and you are either in one camp or the other.
Some people try to bridge both camps and it gets awkward. So we’re going to help you navigate
this minefield of kiss and tell. But we wouldn’t be swinger university if we didn’t give you a little
bit of educational background about kissing and telling. Of course. Turns out this idiom originated in
1695. It alluded to betraying an amorous or sexual intimacy, which is what we all know it to be.
So that still exists hundreds of years later. And it is still socially unacceptable today.

[01:18] [Ed] So we learn this when we’re growing up. You hear about so and so are together. They’re a thing.
They’re going steady. They’re dating. They’re hooking up. Whatever it is now.
The phrase changes every decade. But the concept is still the same. And that’s you don’t really talk
about who you’re dating or what you’re doing when you’re dating. You don’t want that to get out.

[01:47] [Phoebe] Right. There’s also this double standard for when you’re coming of age and you’re becoming

[01:54] [Unknown] more sexually active. So for guys, you’re seen as being more experienced and for women,

[02:01] [Phoebe] you’re seen as being a slut. Now things have changed in this decade. But I still think that double

[02:11] [Unknown] standard exists. Yeah. I think that younger generations are definitely more open about their

[02:20] [Ed] sexuality and they’re more comfortable with a lot more things, which is fantastic. Yes.

[02:25] [Unknown] But there is still a double standard in terms of, as an example, body count. How many people

[02:33] [Ed] you’ve slept with? Right. There are a lot of people who still think that a high body count
is a bad thing. There are guys on the internet that I have seen post things that if the woman has
had sex at all, then she’s not wife material ruined. Right. Right. Doesn’t work that way. But
that’s one of the standards that people have come up with. Yeah. And these labels

[03:03] [Phoebe] do follow you through life, especially your young life, even after high school and into college.
So they’re they’re it’s a hard label to shake if you’re socially labeled as loose or I can’t say

[03:21] [Ed] this word promiscuous promiscuous. It was a song. Why don’t you sing it? I’m not going to sing that song.

[03:31] [Phoebe] Man, I’ve busted out in songs, your turn. Yeah, but I’m not a singer. That’s okay.

[03:36] [Ed] Obviously, this is a swing or podcast. And so we talk about all things kind of ethically
non monogamous, etc. So there’s a lot of stuff that’s kind of okay and permitted for us. We’re

[03:47] [Phoebe] allowed to be promiscuous. We’re supposed to be. Right. But in vanilla life, it still is a little
bit different sharing details with your friends. Typically, people don’t do that. So like,
if you’re dating a woman, let’s say we’re in our 20s and you’re dating another woman and I’m
your guy friend and you’re really going into the details of this woman that you had sex with.
Right. And you’re sharing it with your good guy friend. Now it’s getting serious. And now you
want your guy friend to meet her because she’s potentially going to be your wife. Right.
That’s going to be awkward. What if she finds out that you shared the best man in the wedding
knows all the kinky details of your sex life. Right. It could be a little awkward.
Right. So I get that people aren’t divulging all this kiss and tell information in the vanilla

[04:52] [Ed] life. It makes sense to me. Yeah. And I think that there’s that level of what is TMI,
what is too much information. Right. And I think it’s one thing to say that you’re dating somebody
and something completely different if you’re going into pornographic vivid details about what
you’re doing with that person. Right. Now if this is a random hookup, I also think that there’s
a different standard for that too. That’s true. You kind of talk about your your conquests.

[05:27] [Phoebe] Right. Male or female. Right. So let’s talk about how that is different in vanilla life versus
swinger life. Because if you have a random DTF in vanilla life, it seems like the standard is
different. You you would divulge as a guy. Maybe I’m using guys. I’m picking on them. And maybe
women do this too. You divulge that as, you know, some really hot sex. He was a great lay. But
he’s a friend’s with benefits, but nothing nothing more. And you give all the juicy details.
Because you know, he’s not husband material or wife material, right? Right. Or you’ll never see
them again because it was 100% random. Right. But in a swinger situation, you wouldn’t do that
because you’re in the community and it’s a tight knit community. Right. So the random guy,
which picked up from bar, probably never going to see him again. You’re not going to travel in the
same social circles. Who cares? Right. But in the swear community, that’s way different if it’s a DTF.

[06:35] [Ed] Yeah, it is different because because it is a closed community because we’re in the the secret
organization of the pineapple. Right. We kind of know each other or we’ve no of people. So even though
you may not hook up with them again, you’re still going to hear about that and and
potentially run into them out the next big event or the next big party. Right. Right. So so there’s

[07:02] [Phoebe] this. This is why I think it’s important to break down. Where is it socially unacceptable

[07:09] [Unknown] and why? Why did it originate that way? And is that the role different in the swinger community

[07:18] [Phoebe] versus the vanilla community? Right. Right. So the lifestyle lends itself really to talk about
sexy things. We’re a community that bonds together. We’re very open when we’re with each other.

[07:32] [Unknown] And even though most swingers aren’t out, they’re dying to talk about their sexy adventures
and sharing it with their new swinger friends. And yet some of us are like, oh, I don’t kiss and tell.

[07:49] [Phoebe] Which kind of puts a a damper on the conversation because you want to share sexy experiences.
You want to kind of give people some information that you’re maybe who you play with or a little
bit more about. You were outside of the regular, oh, we’re soft and more full swap.

[08:10] [Ed] Yeah. I mean, the whole thing about the lifestyle and and having this kind of open community
and sex positive community is we should be able to express ourselves sexually. We should be able

[08:21] [Unknown] to talk about the sex that we’re having. Obviously, we’re having sex with other people. So it’s not

[08:27] [Ed] just us talking about our sex life. That’s kind of boring. It’s talking about the random sex
or the orgy that you had and who was there and the amazing things that you saw. Why? Because these
people will actually get it. They’re like, oh, I missed that party. I wish I was there. Or I went
to a similar party. And this is what happened at that event. Let’s get into some when you should

[08:54] [Phoebe] do it. And then we’re going to get into reasons why you might do it. Okay. All right. So

[09:00] [Unknown] when you should do it, always with somebody you trust. And to do it for a good reason. Don’t

[09:08] [Phoebe] do it for nefarious reasons or to make yourself important. And I’ll go into more reasons about that.

[09:14] [Ed] But yeah. And for some of those nefarious reasons, the gossipy reasons, we did an episode and I’ll

[09:20] [Unknown] link to it here about gossip. Right. So here are some reasons why you might want to kiss and tell.

[09:30] [Phoebe] Your girlfriend in the lifestyle wants a good single male reference. How are you supposed to
give her a reference if you can’t kiss and tell? Right. You’ve got someone who’s looking for
a playful couple. Maybe very very respectful. Maybe they’re maybe they’re kink driven or BDSM driven

[09:54] [Unknown] and you’re looking for that specific thing that they have to offer. You would want to disclose

[10:02] [Ed] that, right? Going back to the single male. If I were a single male or even as a couple,
I want a good recommendation. And on a lot of the social sites, there’s actually a way to give
people little certifications. So you can give them the seal of approval that they were a good time
or they were great, great fun, great conversationalist, whatever. However, you want to write your review
about it. But that word of mouth is what gets you in the door for those other parties or with other
couples. So it’s kind of key to having that word of mouth spread. So kissing and telling
actually kind of opens doors for you. It does open doors and it actually helps the community. I

[10:53] [Phoebe] can’t tell you how many times I’ve had private house party hosts reach out to me and say, hey,
do you have a respectable single male that you’ve played with that you could recommend for my
house party. I’ve got some I’ve got three unicorns coming and I need to pack in some single males
for them. And for the some other couples that I that I know are seeking single males. Right.

[11:20] [Ed] How are you supposed to do that if you can’t? Yeah, yeah, it’s a yeah, you almost have to do it.
Right. Right. Within reason. But as they say, with great power comes great responsibility. So

[11:33] [Phoebe] yes. So we touched on a little bit of like BDSM or other kinks that you’re into maybe you’re a size
queen. How are now we’re starting to get into details more, right? So if someone doesn’t know

[11:49] [Ed] what a size queen is. What is a size queen, Phoebe? You say what a size queen is.

[11:56] [Phoebe] No, you say you say a size queen is a woman who’s looking for a man who’s very girthy.
Usually it’s girth over length, but it’s it’s the girth because they really want to be filled.
Right. They want to feel that pressure. So that for them is very enjoyable and that’s how their
body works and what’s fun and stimulating for them. So they if they’re going to spend the time
getting ready and make the date blah, blah, blah, you all know how this goes. That’s the experience
they want to have. Yeah. Maybe aesthetically you really like the girthy look. Right. Or that’s what you
want to suck on or fondle. Then you have to be able to describe. Hey, yeah, this guy’s got a really
big, you know, right? When is it bad to kiss and tell? This is where it starts to get into what

[13:00] [Unknown] the motivation for kissing and telling. Right. So if you’re telling someone to give them a good

[13:06] [Ed] recommendation or to help them, that seems like a positive thing. But on the other hand, if you’re
seeking to cause damage or harm or spread misinformation about somebody, then it’s not so good.
Now, here’s an interesting question that we should post people. If you have a bad experience with
a couple or you have something that maybe is dangerous that happens with a couple,
is that’s a bad thing, but is it bad to pass that on? I don’t think so because you’re not doing it

[13:51] [Phoebe] to make yourself look good. You have to be really careful when you’re sharing that information.
Are you thinking about the safety and well-being of somebody else? Are you thinking about the safety
and well-being of the community? Or are you just doing it to ruin somebody or make yourself look
like you’re really important or something? Right. Those motivations are completely different.

[14:21] [Ed] Now, I will say that if someone is motivated by those things, this particular episode is not going

[14:26] [Unknown] to dissuade them from moving in those ways. If you’re listening to this and you’re one of those
people, stop it. It’s not okay. And really think about the overall harm that you’re doing to the
community and to the people who are around you. So let’s give some examples as to what would be

[14:52] [Phoebe] okay to say. Sure. I have said in the past, they were a very fun couple. It’s pretty benign.
It wasn’t a lot of great detail. They were a very fun couple. We really enjoyed their company.
They’re fun in the bedroom. They like to laugh and play. Right. What’s wrong with that? Yeah.

[15:17] [Ed] It’s fun. It’s playful. It gives a sense of their personality and potential fun in terms of
sexual activities. But it doesn’t go into explicit detail. It doesn’t out them in any particular way.

[15:34] [Phoebe] Right. Well, and I just realized it’s obvious we kiss and tell because we do that in our Patreon
episodes. And if you haven’t checked those out, you might want to. And of course, of course, we
do not use role names and we change the venue and we change the time and we change the location.
So no one can figure it out. Do this on purpose just to mess with you.

[16:03] [Ed] Well, I’m to protect your identity. To protect the innocent.

[16:10] [Phoebe] I’ve also said things like, oh, her man is really good at oral.
Right. What other compliments have you said or given to women before I get into the

[16:26] [Unknown] little more touchy things that are okay. Yeah. My compliments around women in lifestyle

[16:36] [Ed] tend to be things like she’s attentive or she’s very gentle or she tends to be a little

[16:45] [Unknown] aggressive but not in a bad way. We need your help so that your community, the very one you love

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[17:44] [Ed] We’d appreciate it and your community will really appreciate it. Thanks for listening.

[17:51] [Unknown] Right. Because some people like that forward aggressiveness.

[17:59] [Ed] Very assertive women. Yes. And that can be pretty fun and sexy.

[18:06] [Unknown] Let’s get into this is the controversial part. So these are the kissing and telling that

[18:17] [Ed] we almost we almost classify them as public service announcements. Yes. There are a little bit of

[18:26] [Phoebe] yeah. Yeah. Let’s before we get into the because it’s a bit of a story. Let’s get into STI’s first

[18:36] [Unknown] and then we’ll go into story time about the big one. I’ve had people kiss and tell to me
about other couples with an STI. Right. I’m a little on the fence about what to do with that

[18:55] [Phoebe] information. Right. Because everybody’s risk level is different. While I appreciate somebody
giving me the information and they probably did so out of public awareness or some safety.
And I can choose to ignore that information or take that on and do some further research.
Like what kind of STI is it? Right. And how does that impact me? My risk level is going to be

[19:27] [Unknown] different from everybody else’s risk level. So for me, when somebody gives me that information,

[19:34] [Phoebe] I’m not the kind of person that directly just writes them off.
Right. Especially if it’s from somebody I don’t know really well. But if it’s somebody I know

[19:45] [Unknown] really well and I trust, then it has a little more weight to it. Right. For sure. Exactly.

[19:54] [Ed] We’ve heard couples being kind of outed for having an STI before. And for us, it’s always a little
bit of a challenge knowing how accurate that information is. Where did they hear it from?

[20:10] [Unknown] Like if it showed up in a test and they saw the test results, that’s clear or not clear. But

[20:20] [Ed] it’s obvious that that’s true. Right. So I think with this particular one, I would avoid relying on
that second hand statement. And if you think that there’s a possibility, just ask for their test

[20:36] [Phoebe] results. It’s that simple. Right. We’re asked them, yeah, straight up.
Hey, we’ve heard. I don’t know. We’ve never we’ve never approached anybody and said,
hey, we’ve heard you. And we’ve never revealed that about anyone. And I feel like that’s very

[21:00] [Unknown] personal. That’s that’s something between us and them. Let’s just say we got an STI. You and I

[21:09] [Phoebe] get tested or like, holy shit, we have an STI. Now we got to go trace back to individuals we
slipped with over the last three months because there’s an incubation period, everybody. Right.
So we go back to those couples and say, hey, we got an STI. We don’t know if it’s from you,

[21:29] [Unknown] but we need to let we need to let you know. This is what it is. You may want to get tested.

[21:34] [Phoebe] Please report back to us. You’re having an intimate conversation with them and everybody’s

[21:40] [Unknown] reaction is going to be different. So why if you’re if you’re having this conversation with somebody
and you’ve got some trust and an open line of communication, I don’t see why I would feel the
need to broadcast that to the community. Unless maybe you’ve got somebody with a known STI

[22:02] [Phoebe] and they’re lying to people and they’re just going around sleeping with people in the community.

[22:08] [Ed] And you feel like that’s a public service announcement. Yeah. And the one example that I can think
of is the the individual who has a tendency to slip their condom off and have unprotected sex
with people. And we have passed that information on to close friends. So can you imagine combining those
to they had an STI and they’re known to slip their condom off. That’s really bad. And that’s something

[22:41] [Unknown] that as a community, I think people would appreciate knowing what was going on.

[22:49] [Phoebe] Right. Yeah. And and the condom pulling off the condom we have talked about that before that did

[22:58] [Unknown] happen to me. I did get that information. I believe after I had sex with this individual and I
said, huh, that’s that’s interesting. That didn’t happen with me. Okay. Note to self, it didn’t

[23:18] [Phoebe] preclude me from having sex with that individual again, but I was aware more aware of that. Right.

[23:26] [Unknown] You were you were sensitive to that happening occurring. So I would continually check to make

[23:34] [Phoebe] sure it was there. Now it wasn’t, you know, I’m a little worried about it. Right. So my experience
isn’t that great because now I’ve got this thing in the back of my head. Right. Right. So
kind of takes the fun out of it. And then and then it did happen. Right. It I flipped over
in doggy. I couldn’t monitor that and oops, it magically slipped off. Right. So then we went through

[23:55] [Ed] the whole testing and abstinence thing. And with that particular situation, that was one where
with really good friends who had mentioned that person’s name, we did mention that they needed to
be aware that that had happened and you had heard of that happening with somebody else.
And that’s one of those things where we didn’t broadcast it in the podcast. We didn’t talk about
it to everybody, but we certainly passed it along to the people who who we knew directly were

[24:28] [Phoebe] in contact with that person. Right. Right. So it was very on the download as with a trusted

[24:33] [Ed] individual. Yes. Right. And and even with that, you still feel a little weird about passing that
information on because it could have been an accident. Probably wasn’t. But it could have been.

[24:50] [Phoebe] Right. Right. So there’s that fine line between caring for your fellow man and woman
and not kissing and telling. Right. Yeah. But that’s where that difference comes in, where you’re
public safety to a trusted individual versus broadcasting everywhere for nefarious reasons.

[25:13] [Ed] Exactly. Exactly. All right. Let’s get into this story. This other story. So this is one that
we’d had conversations with one of our local hotwives. Yes. And we love her. And we trust her.
Yeah. And we’ve we’ve had some great conversations with her about a lot of different stuff.

[25:36] [Phoebe] And she is a longtime sex worker and very experienced. So we really value her opinion. She’s given

[25:43] [Unknown] me lots of advice over the years. Right. And it had been proposed that the four of us get
together. So this lady and another gentleman. And we played with the idea. We’re still

[25:59] [Ed] playing with the idea. We got a really strange phone call from her one day. I know that you play
with this gentleman and I wanted to let you know what had happened. But it was bigger than that.
The message didn’t give us any details. It was just I need to talk to you. Yeah.
We get on the phone with her and she starts going into detail about this incident that happened

[26:28] [Unknown] with this gentleman who you’ve had two positive experiences with. Yeah. They were great.

[26:36] [Phoebe] 100%. I was recommending him everywhere. Right. Yeah. They were awesome. So for her to start relaying
what had occurred was was shocking. I mean, I was I was floored. I almost thought she was

[26:59] [Ed] talking about somebody else. Right. Because it was it was such a huge disconnect from the person
that we knew or at least the experiences we’d had with that person. Well, here’s the question
Yes. Do we say what had happened to her? Let’s just say consent for this particular level of
kink and impact play was not granted was not given. And it came out of nowhere.

[27:35] [Phoebe] And pictures were sent to us because I had a hard not because I had a hard time believing it.
I’d already it out a hard time believing it. And she graciously sent us photos. I didn’t request
them. She sent them right. And it was way worse than I had imagined. Right. Because we were

[27:58] [Ed] picturing what it was. We were trying to imagine what had happened and the severity of it. Right.
And the pictures painted it in a totally different like, oh, that wasn’t that’s not a minor thing.

[28:12] [Unknown] That’s not a that’s like. Wow. Was there a police report filed? I mean, like that kind of
level. Yeah. It was shocking. It was very shocking. So she had reached out as a safety concern

[28:34] [Phoebe] to to us. Right. And I was really appreciative of that. And it was you and I kept trying to make

[28:42] [Unknown] sense of it. And the only thing we could think of was maybe because you were in the room that

[28:49] [Phoebe] didn’t happen with me that it didn’t occur. And she didn’t have anyone else in the room with her.

[28:56] [Ed] And maybe that’s why it occurred. Which makes it even worse. But I know. Yeah.

[29:03] [Unknown] Yeah. What it did set up for us was the solo hot wife play situation or the separate room,

[29:15] [Ed] hot wife situation. We now started to see that there’s some risks. You got to really trust that
person. Yeah. And this was a situation where we go maybe we didn’t know them as well as what we
thought we did. And we need to be careful in the future. So if anything, it was a cautionary
tale for us because we were starting to experiment more with single males. Right. And I think it
was that situation that made us go, I think I’m going to have a nice seat in the room and observe
for a while or at least be present in the house for those kinds of play situations.

[30:00] [Unknown] Right. And what what ended up happening after their session together, this individual, he

[30:11] [Phoebe] he became very very distant. He wasn’t he wasn’t his normal self. His his pattern of communication
had changed. Right. And I couldn’t help but maybe infer that maybe he was ashamed or embarrassed.
But but he really we hadn’t written him completely off the the table. Right. Either

[30:37] [Unknown] because he was so fun to play with. And I I thought, well, well, let’s have another date.

[30:46] [Phoebe] And we’ll we’ll have a conversation. Not a play date. We’ll have we’ll have a drink date. We’ll
have a conversation and just find out what’s going on. But he basically just ghosted us
at some point. And so now I can’t help but think, well, you know, maybe he found out somehow

[31:04] [Ed] that she was spreading the word. I have no idea. Yeah. Or just that we knew her and him. And
that was enough of a connection where he thought maybe she would pass that on. And he was too
embarrassed. I don’t know. Right. Yeah. So a little bit of guilt involved, which is probably good.
Maybe he’ll maybe he’ll learn from that experience. Maybe you won’t do that again. That would be

[31:28] [Unknown] fantastic. And because otherwise, like you said, it was a great experience. So that was a really good

[31:37] [Phoebe] example of Kiss and Tell for public safety reasons. Right. And once again, I love to take in all
information, assess that for myself. And I’m information is power. And so now I’m armed with
more information that is potentially unsafe for me. But I still wanted to inquire with him,
hey, what happened? We heard this thing. We’ve enjoyed your company. Let’s let’s hear your side.
Sure. But we never got that opportunity because he ghosted us. So yeah. And I think anytime we’ve

[32:13] [Ed] ever heard rumors or feedback about someone, we always like to confirm, especially when we hear
there are a lot of fun. We absolutely have to confirm that because I’m not going to take anybody’s

[32:27] [Phoebe] word for that. Like that’s just hearsay. I need proof. Absolutely. 100%. So this is why we like to
kiss and tell. It’s got its place in the community. And as individuals, we all love to share
sexy stories. We all look out for each other’s safety, especially at events. And I think it has

[33:02] [Unknown] I think it has a place in this swing or community that you can say what you want to say without

[33:13] [Phoebe] being too too detailed or too graphic. The right level of information. Yeah.

[33:23] [Ed] Thanks for tuning in. We appreciate you joining us and our community. And as I always say,
don’t forget your homework. Tell a friend about our show and leave a review and comment.
We’d love to hear your thoughts about kissing and telling. So leave your comments down below.
And if you don’t want to leave a comment, at least leave us a thumbs up. We appreciate all of you

[33:51] [Unknown] and your feedback and your interaction with our channel. You can also, if you’re even bolder,

[33:58] [Ed] and you would like to kiss and tell, we would appreciate you leaving us a voicemail at 916-538-0482.

[34:10] [Phoebe] And if you’re worried about your voice being recognized, just let us know. We can change it and

[34:17] [Unknown] make you sound like Darth Vader or any mouse or the Princess bride. Yeah, we can change your voice

[34:26] [Ed] if you need to. You can also reach out to us at SwingerUniversity.com, our website. There’s
contact information. We even have a mailing list. So if you want to hear about all the stuff that

[34:37] [Unknown] we’re doing, check out SwingerUniversity.com. And as always, keep learning, keep growing,
and keep it sexy. Oh, one last thing before you go. If this episode helped you in any way,

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[35:42] [Unknown] Thank you for being part of this community. We’ll see you again soon.