How To Be a Sexy Curious Girl

[00:00] [Guest] Do you want to know how to turn your sex life around in 10 days?
Today we have a very sexy guest, Layla London, from the curious girl diaries where she invites
you as a voyeur into her diary of sexual encounters.
She said no to years of no sex and reclaimed her right to pleasure and sexual freedom
in less than two weeks and kept going.
She’s a podcaster and a blogger who helps educate and normalize sexual exploration.

[00:30] [Ed] But before we begin, we want to give a shout out to our newest patrons, Mark Lee, Guerrero
Dos Ries, Jack S. and by 38, Double D, Boo Fan.
We love the support from those who subscribe and your support really helps.
We continually improve our offering to you as a subscriber with upgrades to our technology
for our fabulous listening and viewing experience.
Lots of juicy behind-the-scenes stories, photos, and some erotic content coming soon.
So if you aren’t a supporter yet, you are definitely missing out.
In fact, you can subscribe right now by scrolling to the notes on this podcast and hit subscribe.
Okay, now onto our guest.
Welcome, Layla.

[01:16] [Phoebe] Hi, guys.
Thank you so much for having me.

[01:20] [Guest] Thanks for coming on.

[01:21] [Phoebe] We’re very excited.
I’m excited too.
I know.
I feel like singing.

[01:27] [Unknown] I know.

[01:28] [Guest] Well, it is Friday.
I mean, it is.

[01:30] [Ed] It’s one of those days.
Yeah.
Great.
Okay.
Yes.

[01:35] [Unknown] Sometimes I burst into song.

[01:38] [Ed] So all right.
Let’s just launch into this.
So in the beginning, don’t, don’t, don’t.
Three and a half years had gone by with zero sex.
Why?

[01:50] [Unknown] And how did this happen?

[01:53] [Phoebe] I know.
What the fuck?
Okay.

[01:56] [Unknown] So here’s what happened.

[01:58] [Phoebe] I’m probably like a lot of women where I’m just a, I’m a type A. I’m a go-getter.

[02:06] [Unknown] And I’ve been an entrepreneur for a long, long time.

[02:12] [Phoebe] And I was so entrenched in my business and everything that was going on that I just
really put aside everything that took me away from that to my own kind of personal detriment.
And I think women do this a lot.
I don’t know that men do it, but I think women will do it a lot.
We’re so focused on this that, you know, like I got to do this.
I got to do that.
And then we will sacrifice our sexuality.
And I did.
And then I kind of woke up one day and went, what the fuck am I doing?
Like, this is ridiculous.
I need to stop wasting the pretty.
I need to get out there.
And spread this around.
I’m joking a little bit, but what I really realized in that moment was, you know, why am
I not out there experiencing the sexual aspect of myself?
Why am I just putting this in a box and shoving it away?
It didn’t, at that moment, I knew it didn’t feel right.
So I kind of very quickly had to come up with a plan.
I put my business hat on because being a business person, I’m like, well, there’s a problem.
Yeah.
And how, you know, and I had like logical action steps to get myself out of it.
And so that’s what I did.
I just, I kind of used my business model that made me successful business wise and applied
that to my sex life and resurrected it very quickly.

[03:40] [Ed] So what did this look like?
Did you sign up for like five apps at the same time?

[03:43] [Unknown] Did you start with one or where did you start?

[03:49] [Phoebe] Yes.
So I just put myself on it, yeah, you know, normal like app, you know, hook up site, site,
you know, whatever you want to call them and made a profile.
Yep.

[04:01] [Unknown] And within 10 days, I had righted that wrong.
Excellent.
Yeah.

[04:10] [Phoebe] Excellent.

[04:12] [Ed] Okay.
So we’re after that date, where you like, holy shit, what have I been missing out on?

[04:21] [Unknown] Or was it, was hopefully it was good sex?

[04:25] [Phoebe] It was good sex.
Okay.
And yes.
And I will say, I did, I will say that I got very lucky because the, the first guy that
really kind of caught my attention, he, I told him what, you know, I really was honest
about like, listen, this is, I have not had sex.
And three and a half years, I’d just been this, in this self-imposed rights film.
And I kind of need to get my sea legs again, you know, right, but you know, I just told
him, like, straight up, this is what’s happened.
I’m wasting the pretty.
I need to stop doing that.
And like, can you help me like, I just want to, you know, get past this and, yeah.
And so he, he was excellent actually.
He would like, really made it special the first time, I felt like I was having sex for
the first time.
It was really kind of sweet.
And I was nervous, you know, because he was basically a stranger.
But we actually did end up from there dating for a while.
So it was a really fun adventure.
But what really sprang out of that was that I realized that I wanted to give myself
a chance to really explore my sexual well.
I made a sex bucket list.

[05:43] [Unknown] If I create these fun things that I wanted to do, what’s going to come up that?

[05:49] [Phoebe] And who will I be at the end of all of this?
That was really kind of my most interesting question I was concerned about, like, just going
to make me a kinkster, my pervert, like, what, because I was coming from complete vanilla
land, even less than vanilla land, right, because I hadn’t even been in vanilla land.
So I, I was like, when I do something, I just, I go all in.
And I jump in the deep end, and I’ll figure out how to swim on there.
That’s my, that’s just how I’ve always done my business, like, I, I just jump in.
So I wanted to document this stuff for a year, like, I’m going to give myself a year,
and I’m going to really let loose and let’s see what happens.
And so I had the sex bucket list, and I just went for it.
The podcast was really me documenting that for myself.
And I really, the intention was that I would shut it down in a year, and that was going
to be that.
That was really the original intention, and then it caught on, and I just, here I am seven
years later.

[06:56] [Guest] Okay.
Yeah.
That’s okay.

[06:59] [Unknown] That’s always how things work, right?

[07:00] [Guest] Like, you have the, the plan, and then it’s like, this is going really well.
I’m going to just keep going.

[07:05] [Unknown] Yeah.

[07:06] [Phoebe] Yeah.
Exactly.
That’s what happened.
Yeah.
People are like, you can’t stop.
Oh, okay.
I guess I can extend it one more year, and then one more year became one more year.
And then one more year.
I think about that third year, I just said, okay, fuck it, guys.
Like, I’m in it.
I’m in this.
Like, yes, I’m going to keep going, because I really, I’m so important, sexual exploration
and just understanding myself as a sexual being, and why that’s, why we’re so driven

[07:37] [Unknown] by that, you know, because I think, right?

[07:41] [Phoebe] We don’t, we don’t always know what we don’t know, and we don’t get this information or
this education or even the permission to do this stuff as we’re growing up and, you

[07:53] [Unknown] know, coming up and, like, information about sexual exploration and different ways to

[08:01] [Phoebe] be that are not readily available, really, when you, you know, I just was like, well, here
we go.
Here’s my lane.

[08:11] [Unknown] Yeah.

[08:12] [Ed] Well, what did your vetting process look like when you were looking for individuals, because
I’d been single, I’d been married for, I’d been married twice before, and the last marriage
was 10 years, and it was sexless for a, for a very long time.
He suffered from depression, and I woke up one day in my forties and said, nope, that’s,
that’s not going to continue anymore.
And I was just, I mean, I was going on two and three dates a week.

[08:42] [Unknown] It was like a part-time job, and so it was great, but, you know, I got really good at

[08:51] [Ed] the vetting process.
I got really, you know, clear and wrecked, but sometimes, you know, that vetting process
didn’t always pan out so well.

[09:02] [Unknown] How did you vet, did you have all the experiences, do you have a system for it, really?
Yeah.

[09:11] [Phoebe] Yes.
I mean, not in the beginning, because I, I experienced a lot of what you’re talking about.
It’s, it’s like the wild, wild west, I always say, like, I forced come to my way through
it.
Like, you just don’t know what you don’t frickin’ know, and there’s, and there’s, there’s,
when I jumped into this online dating world, this casual online dating world, right?
Because there’s, there’s, there’s mash.com stuff, and then, and then there’s like the hookup

[09:40] [Unknown] stuff, you know, and I really didn’t know at that point, like, where I was landing with

[09:48] [Phoebe] all of this.
So that’s what, you know, a lot of the earlier episodes of my podcast, it’s about, it’s
like me.
Like I said, literally for us coming my way through all of this shit, like trying to
figure it out.
And so there’s no, I don’t think there’s like a super clear way to the process, but what
I can say now is I’m super quick and focused, like, I can weed, it’s a sifting and sorting
process.
And, you know, to what you were saying, I would go on, I would do like a breakfast meetup,
a lunch meetup, and then, like a drinks, a dinner, you know, after five meetup.
And I cranked it like a machine.
I ran it like a business because I was just like, I got to figure this out.
I need to sort of systematize this and make it as, as possible.
That was, that’s the unglomerate side of it, right?
I mean, you know, I’m like, there’s all these guys.
And I feel like as women, we, we, the, the, the nice part about that is we have a lot
of leverage, you know, because men, they want to get their dick sweat.
Sorry.
That on their show and so they are, they’re going to kind of acquiesce a little bit to,
you know, how we set the flow.
So it’s important that somebody, at least, is setting some sort of, you know, raising
the bar, putting it somewhere that somebody has to get over or meet, otherwise, you
know, you’re both kind of like lost in the wilderness about how to do this stuff.

[11:23] [Unknown] So I very quickly, just like, this is how, you know, this is how I need to crank the

[11:28] [Phoebe] wheel.
This is how I churn it.
And so it’s just, I don’t, I like to get off the, I like to chat a little bit on the
apps.
Do I feel there’s a physical attraction now?
Are we, you know, I’ll give, I give everybody like a burner number.
I don’t give out my personal, I don’t learn that the hard way, like all this stuff, I’ve
learned the hard way about internet safety and just like what you do and what you don’t

[11:53] [Unknown] do.

[11:54] [Phoebe] And then, you know, I just, I, I try to move it forward very quickly to then let’s meet
face to face for some sort of either, you know, drink or coffee.
And that’s something that doesn’t involve the expectation of we’re just right after
that we’re going to move on to a physical encounter.
This is just so that I can establish if you have chemistry with me and I have chemistry
with you and there’s no pressure either way because, you know, sometimes it’s just
not there.
Right.
And then, and then after that, then we move forward.
Yeah.
And so, right.
That’s kind of my quick and dirty process.

[12:35] [Ed] Yeah.
And I had read a, I had read a book, some advice from a man who had said, you know, don’t,
don’t always be available.
I mean, you don’t, you don’t want to always just be available, right?

[12:46] [Unknown] You just, you want, I mean, you, you, you have a life, you have a timeline too.

[12:53] [Ed] So don’t just, you know, even if you, even if you don’t have something going on right

[12:59] [Phoebe] after pretend like you do my earlier episodes, like I will say, you know, guys will just,

[13:09] [Unknown] they’ll hit you up like, what are you doing tonight?

[13:12] [Phoebe] Like, do you want to, you know, I’m available?
Do you want to meet them?
Just like, no, no, I might be totally available and I might, my schedule might be wide open.
But just on sheer principle, because I don’t want you to get it in the habit of thinking
I’m just readily available, because you know what the truth is, most of the times I’m

[13:32] [Unknown] not.

[13:33] [Phoebe] Right.
Right.
But I don’t want to set that standard.
And I also, I appreciate someone that puts a little forethought into scheduling time with
me that.
Yeah.
I think that’s the one thing that it’s not to, they’re not to, you know, get down on
them.
But I think that they’re more like, you know, they run their days a little more freely.
And I think women are more like, hey, because I need, we need time to get ready.
I mean, I, I want to show up looking, you know, my best layless self, whether that, whether
I’m making that look like I’ve just been running around all day look, or I really put

[14:13] [Unknown] some effort, whatever it is, we behind the scenes, you know, we’re, we make an attempt

[14:21] [Phoebe] to make pull off that image, whatever it is.
And so I like a little time.
And I also like to know that this person thought of me at a time, and I’m not just some like
spur of the moment, hey, Europe will come meet me, you know, it just, it does, it makes
a difference.
And so, yes, I would, there would be guys who’d be like, hey, what are you doing tonight?
You want to grab dinner?
And I’m like, oh, so, you know, I might have zero on, on the books.

[14:50] [Unknown] I’m like, no, I can’t do it.

[14:54] [Phoebe] Maybe tomorrow, because I’m, you know, like, oh, just give me, you know, give me, I appreciate
advance notice.
Could you give me some, you know, I try to sort of redcrumb those principles to them.
Yeah.

[15:07] [Guest] I mean, it really does show a sense of respect for, for the other person’s time and their
life and their agenda and, you know, especially at the 10 o’clock booty call kind of thing
that they do.
They’re like, you know, the movie’s over.
Let me just give her a call and see if she wants to swing, but like, that’s just not,
not respectful.

[15:30] [Unknown] Yeah.

[15:31] [Phoebe] I don’t answer those.
I don’t answer those.
Yeah.

[15:34] [Unknown] It’s young.

[15:35] [Phoebe] And I really, I expect that more from maybe younger, like 20-somethings, I still don’t
answer it.
If I get that, but really, I’ll tell you, I’ll give those guys to pass, but what happens
is with the, you know, if anybody that’s what I call age appropriate, closer to my age,
I’m like, somebody didn’t raise you right.
I’m sorry.
You know, like, that’s a really quick, for me, um, decision about, yes or no, like this
guy just doesn’t have respect for women or I don’t know, you know, I mean, there’s all
kinds of things about that.
I’m like, that’s strange, you know, come on.
Yeah.
Maybe you don’t have enough going on in your life that you need to pre-plan, but again,
you know, when you’re older, like that’s an indicator to me, like, you know, maybe
not, we’re not really like a good match.

[16:31] [Ed] Right.
Right.
So then how have you ever ran into anyone that wanted to, you know, stay overnight or
cuddle too long or they started to get attached and how did you stay unattached or did you
stay unattached?

[16:47] [Phoebe] That was such a good question.
So in the beginning, uh, I have, so I still have the same, I still have some, some
same rules and boundaries, but in the beginning, especially, it was just like, no overnight.
Like, there’s no sleepovers.
I just knew like that, that breeds, you know, uh,
attachment and things like that.
And I really wanted to, in the very beginning, I really wanted to just not have to deal
with any of that.
And so I did the best.
Now about a year, you know, maybe a year and a half into what I realized was, I don’t
know that I have all that much control over that sometimes as much as I’d like to think
I do.
And so I still don’t do, I generally don’t do sleepovers, but I also have acknowledge,
unless it’s a long-term partner, like some of these move into like, you know, when you,
when you move into friends with the benefits over the long haul, yes, of course I do.
But I have tried to just maintain, you know, keep it on a nice casual level and, and then,

[18:03] [Unknown] with also with acknowledging that sometimes you don’t have as much control over that as

[18:10] [Phoebe] we’d like to think, because I’m a control freak.
I like to think I can control everything, but that’s, that’s the beauty of this social
experiment that I’ve done.
Now, I’m seven years into it is that I’ve realized, you know what?
Sometimes you don’t have as much control over that as you do like, and that’s okay too.
You know, if you, it’s, it’s about good communication and talking to the other person, you know,
when you start, when the feels, you know, the feelers start to develop, you just be honest
about it.
I’m, you know, I don’t, if someone’s not at the same level that doesn’t bother me, or when
they come to me and they’re developing something that I’m not maybe reciprocating, or maybe
I am whatever, it just, it’s okay, you know, I just appreciate good communication and,
and honesty when it comes to that stuff.

[18:58] [Unknown] Oh, that’s nice.

[18:59] [Ed] That’s refreshing.
I mean, I don’t think a lot of people really have the tools or that maybe even the maturity
to kind of have those conversations and then they, you know, they, they don’t say anything
and people just kind of get led down that, that road.
So then what if someone said, hey, you know, I, I’m starting to have feelings for you.
Do you, do you decide to go with it or do you just go, well, you know, maybe you should

[19:26] [Unknown] take a little break for a little while.

[19:33] [Guest] All right.
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[20:29] [Unknown] Thanks for listening.

[20:35] [Phoebe] So I’m, like I said, so in the very beginning, I had just this very narrow idea about what
I should be doing and what I shouldn’t be doing.
And again, that’s a beauty of the curious girl diaries and everything.
It’s really, this is a documentation of my sexual evolution and everything that then
involves the feelings, all the stuff that we don’t really like to talk about and put
out there.
And so that’s really why I can say, like, you know, now I’m way more comfortable with,
with saying, my intention is this, but if something changes, let me know or I will let
you know.

[21:26] [Unknown] And I never feared about that because, you know, you want it to be a casual friends

[21:34] [Phoebe] with benefits thing.
But I have had many relationships that were, you know, we’re both of us still in love
with each other and, but it was still open.
So that was the fun part is that, you know, you could still explore and with other partners
and experience to everything you want to experience and cross things off my bucket list
because not every guy wanted to do all the things that I had on my list.
That was right.

[22:06] [Unknown] It’s going to be really hard to plug when this is where I think monogamy is so difficult

[22:14] [Phoebe] because it’s really hard, I think, to put all that pressure on one person to meet all
those needs, right, because we’re all so diverse and it’s really a very, in my opinion
at this point, it’s a really hard bar to reach or a level to reach is that one person
is going to meet all of that sexually.
And so, you know, it’s just open up my mind about, well, what is our sexuality and does
anybody really control that?
Like, I can commit to somebody and say, you know, like, you’re my person.
Does that mean, you know, that I don’t want to experience something oddball off the cuff
that maybe you aren’t interested in?
No.

[23:07] [Unknown] Right.

[23:08] [Phoebe] How do we bridge that gap?
What do we do with that?
And so, as I’ve gone along with this and evolved and being able to capture all of my

[23:16] [Unknown] changes, I’ve just realized that, you know, it’s okay, when feelings happen, that’s okay.

[23:24] [Phoebe] We talk about it and then we kind of figure out, like, how are we going to make this work?
You know, there’s always a way that, like, what are we going to do and how are we going
to make it work?
And it just really means that the other person probably has to be open to the fact that,

[23:37] [Unknown] and me too, right, that they may have some needs that they need to get met and elsewhere

[23:42] [Phoebe] and myself as well.

[23:44] [Ed] And so, you know, yeah, we’ve kind of just, we’ve heard from some friends that where feelings
start to develop with another couple on the swing lifestyle and then they decide to
try polyamory and then they have to have, you know, those discussions about what that’s

[24:01] [Unknown] going to look like and the feelings that come up with that and it’s an interesting process.
I don’t know personally if I could handle all those extra people, but in a poly relationship.

[24:20] [Ed] But for some people, they’ve tried it and it didn’t work and then for other people,
they’re still trying it to see if it does work, but it’s an interesting process.

[24:33] [Guest] One of the really big advantages we found with the swing lifestyle is when you do have
those curiosities that you can venture out, you can try new things and we acknowledge
pretty early on that there’s a lot of couples who want to experience bisexuality.
Well, you can’t really do that if you’re a heterosexual couple, like suddenly someone
can’t be that for your partner.
And so you’re right, like there’s just some things that can’t be, I will never be Jason
Mamoah.
I’m never going to be, you know, six four, the long curly hair, like I could put away
God, but it’s not the same.

[25:11] [Unknown] I know.
That’s true.

[25:14] [Phoebe] No, I mean, I don’t, I get it, right?
Because we all have these weird little difficulties, like, you know, what is in there and that’s
what I mean, our sexuality is so vast in diverse and I don’t think enough people give
themselves the opportunity to explore that, to even start to kind of uncover these things.
And, you know, they just kind of know that well, you know, I think for, you know, if you
kind of, if we take like a normal, you know, monogamous long term couple, they, you know,
it’s like, I don’t know very many long term monogamous couples that are extremely happy with
their sex lives.
A lot of it’s non-existent.
And I think that that’s really, you know, sad.
I don’t think it has to, I don’t think that has to be.
I think there’s just, for me, I’m like, where there’s the will, there’s a wake kind of
girl.
Like, we can, I’m problem solution, you know, I’m just like, what, what do we do to fix this?
And there’s just so many options and so many different ways to skin a cat.
And so to think that we have to sort of like try to fit into this model, this weird model
that we’ve been fed is we need to start pushing back on that a little bit and just realizing
that there’s just a lot of ways to solve this and experience what you want to or need

[26:37] [Unknown] to or curious about sexually and, yeah, and it doesn’t have to be on one side if it’s
all.

[26:44] [Guest] Yeah.
Yeah.
And even if you don’t, even if you don’t get all swing or about the whole thing or venture
out, there’s, there’s such a, I think we have a problem in the United States in particular
where we don’t talk about sex, we don’t talk about sexuality, we don’t talk about our own
sexual needs.
And even if you’re going to stay monogamous, if you can’t talk about it, there’s no way
your partner’s going to be able to meet your needs.
If right, if it’s not discussed, if you don’t bring it up, if you don’t ask for it, it’s,
it’s not going to happen.
I mean, you’re, you’re lucky if it just falls into your lap and it’s unfortunate.
And I think one of the things that’s really nice about what you’ve done is you’ve committed
to, I’m going to explore my sexuality period, like I’m not, I’m not putting boundaries
up, I’m just going to see what happens.
Yeah.

[27:37] [Unknown] And the nice thing about that I will say is that there’s a lot of things that I thought

[27:45] [Phoebe] initially that I would be really drawn to and that we’re going to be, you know, hot.
And then as I get there and experience them, I’m, I’m not always so excited about that
specific thing, but what I end up discovering is, oh, because I was open and I put myself
in that scenario, I discovered this.
That wasn’t even on my radar and that was fucking hot, and I want her back and I always
say like one door, like opens 10 others, you know, it’s not like, and that’s why once
people just are open and they start exploring what they’ll realize is there’s just so much
out there.
You don’t even really have to have the right roadmap to it.
Just allow yourself to be in certain scenarios and be open and what is, you know, you’ll
discover things that you weren’t even planning on and that’s the fun stuff.
That’s like the beauty of it.
It keeps expanding.
I always say sex to get sex like that energy and that just hotness and curiosity and all
that just keeps building on itself.
So yeah, it’s not like you, that was boring or you know, it might be, right?
I mean, like that one thing, I didn’t, I didn’t get what I thought I was going to get
out of it, but I got 10 more that were so unexpected, you know, so that’s a fun.

[29:17] [Ed] So that’s refreshing and nice to know because I’ve only experienced what you’ve experienced
one on one.
I’m assuming I’ve only experienced that in a group setting with more than one where the
world is just kind of opened up, but you’re experiencing all these new things.
You didn’t know what you didn’t know to you encountered this other person and all of
a sudden boom, you didn’t know you liked that and that’s how it’s been for us in this

[29:45] [Unknown] wing lifestyle, but you’re experiencing this with just different partners.

[29:55] [Guest] Here’s why we sail on Virgin.
It’s adults only.
No kids screaming at breakfast, no family buffet lines, just champagne at noon, late-night
pool parties and people who actually want to be there.

[30:12] [Unknown] The vibe?

[30:14] [Guest] Think boutique hotel that happens to float.
At two parlors, drag brunch, restaurants, you’d actually pay for on land.
Plus when you’re looking to connect with other couples who know how to have fun, let’s
just say Virgin attracts a very specific type of adventurous.

[30:33] [Unknown] No wonder bread cruisers here, just your people.
But also in, even, I think I’m like, if you, if I was on a professional sports team,

[30:48] [Phoebe] you would call me like the utility player.
You couldn’t put me in this role, you put me in that role, like I could be swear, I
can be in the monogamy step, I can be in the polyamorous step, like I have dabbled
in all of it and it’s like sports boring for me.
That’s a fun part.
It’s just like I get to experience all these things and then I really start to understand
you know what works best for me and then I’m that much better at telling my partners
what I want and need and what’s exciting and fun and you know and once I started doing
that and that was clicking in, that’s what made all of this really easy because you
know you have this list of things you want to do and you meet somebody and they’re like,
okay well that doesn’t interest me and that doesn’t interest me but this does and so
you’re like, okay, you’re my person for that and then you know this, this is three sums
or what you know it’s like or this this aspect like you know I want to do like fisting
or I’m just throwing stuff out there and I don’t know like all these different things
that I just didn’t know were even on the menu, right?
Just it leads in so many directions and it’s really really fun and as long as it’s you
know as long as you get that consenting adults and everybody’s on board with it then off
you go and it’s just been so much, it’s been wild but fun yeah and I like to just like
I said do you know I’m not really in one specific lane like you know I love BDSM I love
to be submissive but right now I’m also I have a submissive and I’m exploring that you
know and like he’s the aisle with him and just I’m putting him in a car cage and all this
fun stuff and he loves it you know and I’m like that’s great I never always thought I
wanted to be the submissive and for many years I was and just it’s what I’ve really learned
is it’s it’s a full circle it’s not like you’re just one aspect it really it like okay
you made that may be your primary lane but jump over and and discover like the flip side
because it really teaches you a lot about for me being the dominant really teaches me
so much about my own submission and but I really love and crave about it and then I take what
I experienced and love so much and I apply that over here it makes me appreciate what my previous
dominant had to go through and did and that’s just the thoughtfulness and the mindfulness and all

[33:28] [Ed] that stuff and so none of it’s wasted yeah right nobody and I’m never sorry for all the orgasms I

[33:36] [Phoebe] have because I’m having them no I’m having a lot so that’s always good too yeah yeah it’s very

[33:43] [Guest] much that walking in somebody else’s shoes even even briefly you you appreciate your own position
so much more that makes so much sense yeah so much sense is there anything this can you think of

[33:57] [Ed] I’m sure there’s lots of things that that surprised you along this this road of discovery but can

[34:02] [Unknown] you think of one that worry you know light bulb moment came on and you’re like wow I really didn’t

[34:09] [Phoebe] know I like that lots I’ll just I mean really honestly lots but I’ll give you just kind of the
two that sort of jump into my head that the fastest and that is when I wanted to first go to like a
sex party and be in that environment and I went with a partner and I really thought what we were
going there for was maybe we would find a girl only would have a threesome because at that point
I hadn’t had a threesome and I just you know thought okay we’re gonna find a girl or we’re gonna
find another couple or whatever and do some swapping and while it was there I didn’t really meet you
know we didn’t find anybody that I really felt like there was a connection with but which I’m

[34:54] [Unknown] sure happens a lot right I mean there’s always yeah all these weird discrepancies about why you know

[35:02] [Phoebe] right you could like 10 couples and it’s like yeah it’s just not that the vibe is not quite right
right but because I have found it does get harder the more people are involved like the the
probability of this happening exponentially goes up for a it’s not gonna happen like it’s just hard
and so and so you know people think people think swimmers all you just to hurt yourself out there
and everyone’s just groping and grabbing it’s like no it doesn’t work like that but

[35:32] [Unknown] but not at least not for me anyway but we went there and that was my expectation and I you know

[35:38] [Phoebe] I really went there thinking like it was a masquerade ball and I thought oh just be like
eyes wide shot never is gonna be sexy perfect and beautiful and gorgeous like the movies
and when we when we got there we were in the fricking suburbs you know like
it was a takeover and somebody’s yeah
like their children’s bunk beds were covered in plastic this was like I was I let this
doesn’t mean literally jumping in the deep end I’m like holy shit okay so we so we get there

[36:16] [Unknown] and we’re roaming around and again like I said we didn’t really meet anybody my partner and I

[36:21] [Phoebe] we really didn’t meet anybody that I was like well I would you know I’m totally attracted to
both of them let’s do this but we ended up going into this room they had different themed rooms
and we ended up going to this room where couples were just having sex and I didn’t I at that point
I was like I don’t want to have sex in front of just random people but what I am excited
was give him a blow job and so as I’m doing this I can hear people around me watching
and like being very interested and you know and I can hear them talking and I could hear them

[36:58] [Unknown] getting turned on and that right really like triggered me I was just like I’d at people people

[37:05] [Phoebe] that’s me before like would you like to be watched I’m so it’s like now that isn’t doing anything
for me like why don’t we watch I want the action you know I want to be in it but what I realized
was that turned me on big time like the exhibition so I like I didn’t even know that was on my radar
so that was yeah that was that was one thing that just kind of like change you know change some
things from yeah moving I had that experience again at another sex club with a partner that
I was really connected with and that just was probably the most turned on I was you know I’d
ever I mean just I was really literally dripping down my leg I was so turned on I’d never
experienced that and then you know we were the people that were next to like kind of coming in
and watching and I could feel them like they were so close like I had to feel their body heat

[38:01] [Unknown] and they’re breathing and it was just like I don’t it did something it was really hot and I’m like

[38:09] [Phoebe] okay I like people picking up on the sexual chemistry with with me and my partner and just

[38:16] [Unknown] and and by being on it and yeah and you know really I think that was the first step for me to

[38:23] [Phoebe] realize okay I could bring I could bring in other people because this feels so hot that I could
share it and yeah that was really cool yeah and what’s fun about that story is you went into a

[38:38] [Guest] situation with with and expectation and because things just went sideways so to speak and you
made lemonade and you turned turned out you really liked it in and we have that happen all the time
where we we’ve we’ve got a plan in our head not necessarily setting expectations but we think
we’re going to go in and it’s going to go this particular way and you get there and nobody’s
you’re fancy but you have to improvise and you end up discovering stuff and we had that with one
of our first swing events and we were like well nobody’s really having sex let’s go in the room
we’ll have sex with each other next thing you know yeah we’re the center of the entire room and
everybody’s watching us and it turned into like an eight-way oral orgy it was fantastic and we’ve

[39:31] [Unknown] never been able to reproduce that to speak yeah because there’s like magic in that moment like it’s

[39:37] [Phoebe] just it really is that uh it’s everybody just putting aside the limitations you’re just making
that you’re just going with it you’re already there with someone that you you know you both are
connected you’re sexually excited about each other you’re like hey we’re going to do this and
then other people like that it’s that energy that other people get to pick and that really is
I think a big part of what makes makes it sexy you know and so people saw your connection and we’re
just like that’s fucking hot you know exactly let me see what’s going on there and they couldn’t have

[40:14] [Unknown] you know then you guys sparked this whole uh eight-way yeah yeah and and those those opportunities

[40:23] [Guest] allow you to like you said be kind of tangential to something you you weren’t even thinking about that
you’d said you weren’t into exhibitionism but that opportunity kind of led you that way and
now you found something else that you like which is which is exactly how all of this stuff goes
until you see it or experience it you don’t know whether you like it or not

[40:46] [Phoebe] yeah yeah I think open-mindedness like I said I I encourage people just to put themselves in the
situation they don’t they’re not obligated to do anything and what I really love about
you know the swimmer community and you know the club sex clubs and things like that is said
everybody’s so freaking respectful that’s what I found anyway like I’m sure there’s
ding dong’s out there there’s ding dong’s in every bunch but I feel like the swinger community is
way more uh crunchy and chis and respectful uh and ask for permission way more so than just some

[41:26] [Unknown] ding dong on an app who all of a sudden you know sends me a dick pick what you know like for

[41:33] [Phoebe] ask me for you know some picture you know that I don’t want to give them that I don’t even know
this person right it’s just like you know I feel like it’s it’s civilized and there’s manners

[41:45] [Unknown] and I appreciate that exactly yeah how did you find the the the king world and how did you

[41:53] [Ed] who introduced you to that or was that did that somehow float up onto your radar and then you just

[41:59] [Unknown] added it to your list hey there podcast listeners you’ve been tuning into our episodes but if you

[42:10] [Guest] ever wondered about the steamy details of our adventures or maybe hungry for some sultry erotic

[42:17] [Ed] stories well guess what we’ve got something special just for you our exclusive patreon page it’s
like a VIP pass to the saucy side of our world so if you’re ready for an exclusive behind the mic

[42:32] [Guest] experience head over to our patreon page now trust us this is where the magic happens see you there

[42:39] [Unknown] patrons so I think some of just some of the kink ideas and concepts that was already in you know in

[42:54] [Phoebe] my brain when I made my bucket list you know that I wanted to try and so naturally they led me in
that direction you know I got a lot of my inspiration initially from you know just the porn I would
watch when I’d masturbate or whatever you know like things fans in my head right and so like
like for me the sex party’s like a lot of the obvious came from the eyes like you know that’s why
well that’s how it’s gonna be you know it’s gonna be beautiful all everybody’s perfect and then
you know and show up and literally it’s it’s everybody from every walk of life and everybody type
in every age and every lifestyle and that was such a good powerful uh message for me because
I you know just felt like sort of I don’t say bias towards it but I just had this belief you know
from what I’d seen right in please that’s all I had to go on and what I just want to tell people is
it’s for you know sexual exploration no matter what it is how kinky it is or how vanilla it is
it’s for everybody right doesn’t matter what you weigh it doesn’t matter how you look doesn’t
matter your age your you know the size of your parts or anatomy it’s for everybody so like jump in

[44:22] [Ed] exactly we that was the refreshing aspect as well we got into the community it was it was
so nice just to see that freedom and that everyone was like being able to have that experience for
them without the shame and without you know the confidence issues I mean maybe they had them you
know inside but they they weren’t showing them they were there they were faking it till you make
it kind of thing and um it was great it’s so refreshing and because you know you you see nothing but
the the standard body type and porn and to be able to see not that at a party is amazing it is

[45:05] [Phoebe] very refreshing it’s just yes and especially I’ll speak just you know you and I are women and like

[45:12] [Unknown] for me we there’s just a lot of I don’t think you can argue like you know when we we see stuff

[45:22] [Phoebe] out there anything that’s sold or advertised it’s usually you know with a a person that looks

[45:26] [Unknown] a certain way yes and so it’s hard to kind of feel like okay well where do I land in that and

[45:37] [Phoebe] just when you and that was like the refreshing thing for me was when I went to these parties it was
just like everybody from all walks of life and when I see somebody that is you know maybe they’re
not in the same shape that I am maybe they’re they’re you know that naturally because their bodies have
been through other things that mine haven’t right they look a certain way and that’s normal and they
are just confident as hell and I’m just like what yes I know that that doesn’t that bring I mean

[46:11] [Unknown] that just makes me so comfortable yeah yeah and that’s what I really actually can really appreciate

[46:20] [Phoebe] so much about the singer community is that the confidence like I’m just like Jesus I can take
I can take a page out of that book like I love it I love how open and comfortable people are
and it’s really been for as a woman it’s really been nurturing and enlightening and just
just building you know for myself as well yeah just to be like hey you know what it’s you got it
let’s flaunt it let’s rock it because it’s not going to look any better than it is right now in
this very moment and stop thinking behind or head be in the moment and go with it and enjoy

[47:04] [Ed] yourself exactly that was really well said I know I totally agree have you ever had anyone directly
shame you at a party or you know one-on-one where they said you’re telling them why don’t you
why don’t you just take off all of your clothes like like have you had people make comments to you

[47:30] [Unknown] like this which I have had and it really annoys me and I’m and I’m really trying to focus and educate

[47:41] [Ed] the the community that that’s you know it’s not okay we’re comfortable when we’re comfortable
and just because everyone else takes off their clothes doesn’t mean I have to take them off at

[47:51] [Phoebe] the same time yes absolutely yeah I mean from partners from just people kind of out in the
community and again I am really the one thing I can say at this point is I am very very centered on
where my boundaries are and I don’t need to cross them or do anything to make anybody else feel
better it’s not about them it’s about me and how I’m feeling and what’s what suits me best and what
I’m most comfortable with and so if anybody doesn’t respect that or doesn’t understand that
you know I certainly am not shy about letting them know what did you say so what did you say

[48:43] [Unknown] if someone’s like give me an example yeah a lot of times it depends on my mood like how spicy I’m

[48:49] [Phoebe] gonna I mean to be honest with you I mean you know our time in the month and a
yes where I’m at well we’ll just happen that day I mean there’s there’s a lot of factors in how
direct I’m gonna be that’s true and I have no problem you know because again just in business you
know I’m just like I will I will get you like screw me eyes yeah I mean I don’t have a problem with it
but um it just so I sort of I really a lot of times I’m mirroring back to the person the level
of intensity that they’re coming at me with and so because I feel like that’s what they’re going to
that’s what’s gonna be the most effective with them so yeah so some so what what what I have found
is a lot of times it’s a slow and subtle manipulation and it’s an attempt for someone to get
you again like it’s a kind of a control thing and I just immediately just don’t have any problem

[49:48] [Ed] just shutting it down what has someone walked up to you and immediately started kind of
tugging at your clothes and going you know you’re wearing too many clothes you really need to take
that off so they proposed you they didn’t ask for consent to touch you they started tugging at
your clothes and then they told you you you were not dressed okay so they basically

[50:10] [Phoebe] attacked you in three separate ways yeah okay well I would get I would be I would immediately
be like wait a minute yeah I’m sorry I didn’t give you consent to touch me my goal is when
somebody’s inappropriate is turn it around and ask a question about their own appropriateness

[50:28] [Unknown] so they immediately have to oh okay spending why why not there’s no reason why I have to defend

[50:38] [Phoebe] what amount of clothing I have on at all true but the real collection here is why you feel like
you get to violate my boundaries to that consent I’d like to know the answer to that oh yeah I
will stare directly in their eyes and I it’s like and then it’s silence until they until they
speak first that’s a power technique because people don’t like silence and they will like instantly
like they’re gonna start to stumble they’re way through it right and so that’s just me snatching

[51:12] [Ed] control and be like uh-uh sorry wrong girl yeah I like that I like that to snatch you control that
there is a power imbalance there and I want to snatch that power back yeah this is how I look

[51:30] [Phoebe] at it they didn’t snatch any power from you unless you consent unless you allowed it so that’s why
I don’t allow it by making sure that it’s shifted back on where you know where the control is
the control is with me it is not with you now you answer my questions you’re going to answer to

[51:50] [Ed] me about what about that right yeah okay yeah I like it I do I’ve been looking for for for different
techniques I mean and yeah you know as we talked about the day is different the situation is

[52:07] [Guest] different the person you’re interacting with is different person you’re interacting with is

[52:11] [Ed] different are there five people standing around or one person standing around I mean is it loud
music soft music I you know each social setting is going to be different is there a way
to standing there like you know how is it being handled so you always have to kind of figure out I

[52:28] [Phoebe] understand that and what I what I and I like I totally feel like I know where you’re coming from
and I think that there’s this there’s this social queue in us where we’re like oh don’t make it a
scene or we don’t want to oh we don’t want to bring we don’t want to make this person feel
uncomfortable well but you’re taking on the discomfort when it really shouldn’t be landing on you
and so the appropriate thing to do is politely and effectively like you thought to make a big scene
and you know get crazy but very quickly it doesn’t matter how many people are watching is to again
put it back on them and make them answer to you why they just did that right because what they
were the inappropriate they did the inappropriate thing not you right so all you’re doing

[53:16] [Unknown] pointing that out and I I feel like as adults you know it’s okay to that they should be able to

[53:24] [Phoebe] handle that regardless of who’s standing right there right right it kind of goes back to parenting
really when you when you’re like you’re like it’s like you have a naughty child yeah I call
swift and terrible it’s swift and terrible like that way they know like oh they won’t do that again
because if there’s a they they had a specific action that received a specific consequence and

[53:53] [Guest] that’s the consistency that that response is and if we can model that behavior for other people to
see right I mean yeah it is it’s it’s still training people socially yeah yeah yeah I like this
I like it I like it too so we’re gonna ask you some random questions and you have to answer with
the first thing that pops into your head okay I love it circumcised or uncircumcised both

[54:28] [Unknown] you can have it all okay favorite condom none favorite Lou just being honest I mean I know we

[54:41] [Guest] have to use them but they do suck it’s it’s an answer and it’s perfectly acceptable there are no

[54:48] [Phoebe] wrong answers here okay favorite Lou I love for yeah oh I haven’t tried that one we’ll make note

[54:59] [Guest] CBD yeah it’s really good for you okay cool favorite vibrator oh it’s cool like I love my
touchy magic wow oh she’s in the Hitachi girl all right consistent orgasms masturbation or sex
wait for consistent orgasms yes if you were if you’re go to forget not having an orgasm

[55:26] [Phoebe] hmm I mean both like I haven’t orgasm none or what again that’s awesome yeah for you

[55:37] [Unknown] mutual masturbation hot or not hot tacos crispy or soft

[55:52] [Guest] you’re a yes and for sure yeah bourbon neat or on the rocks neat perfect I’m liking you

[56:02] [Phoebe] already no way no way no way we will shoot okay I’m gonna go yeah neat

[56:08] [Guest] fine dirty talk yeah yes or no yes all right okay sexual partners more than 50 or more than a hundred

[56:22] [Unknown] oh uh oh I even hit 50 at this point that’s a good question I would say it has to be
50 or below all right yeah yeah cool that was fun we’re gonna do that more that’s I know I like that
because it kind of catches you off off guard right and you have to kind of and you learn stuff like

[56:49] [Ed] I just learned about a new Louvre that’s kind of cool I might have to check that out

[56:54] [Unknown] it’s really good Louvre yeah for you all right I’m making a note of that do you have to train

[57:03] [Ed] the men educate them on like what you like in order to have a good sexual experience or do you feel
like it’s pretty easy for you to orgasm irregardless of what they do when I was younger like

[57:21] [Phoebe] really knew how I clipped orgasm and so I would got to a point where I was just like I wasn’t
shy about making sure that you know I did what I needed to do to have an orgasm whether or not
they were cluing in on that but as I got older what I got better with was just being more vocal
and telling someone what I like and what’s hot and I just find that you know you hear women
complaining about men but the truth is I don’t I find that men generally want to be good
pleasers and they want you like that turns them on like I find very I don’t know that I’ve ever
really run across a man that was just like didn’t give a shit if I hadn’t orgasm and not like
that gets them excited so I think that you know women we really need to be better and more comfortable
with just telling them like what turns us on and how you know like you know like put your hand
on here this feels so good or oh my god I love when you don’t stop doing that or whatever it is
to give them encouragement like in the moment this just you’re just feeding the beast I mean they
are they will take that they will take these cues and run with it you just need to give them
give them a ballpark you know to sort of like shoot for where they’re going and they will you know
and then not make some feel good and like like the men you know and they’re making you come and they
are yeah and so it’s really just something I think I think the onus you know I’m gonna have to
say the onus lies on women to explain and be articulate enough and be comfortable enough to tell

[59:15] [Unknown] your partner what thing what you need because what I realize is as women we’re all wired so

[59:22] [Phoebe] differently there’s really now that I’ve been in a you know a throttle and actually trying to
figure out a what another woman’s body even though I have a woman it’s fucking hard I I can say
all men are forgiven like the first time I saw another pussy that was not mine I was like

[59:42] [Unknown] where’s her clip like what do I do I don’t know like it’s same it is the struggles

[59:52] [Phoebe] women more women need to be in that position and you are gonna totally be like okay guys like
oh I am so sorry I put that much pressure on you it is not easy we are not a one size fits all
I get it and as of that now I’m just more invested in making sure that every time I’m with
somebody that I have a good time and that they’re having a good time and part of them having
a good time is just knowing what turns me on and so I I’m very upfront and vocal about it and
that just breeds a lot of fun sexy talk keep me before you get into it you know like what you

[01:00:31] [Guest] like so yeah I will prepare I will totally confirm that men are like dogs you give us a few
instructions and a couple treats we are happy so you know we start getting the signs and that
that’s that’s made my experience so little little direction and straight to it and I’m good yeah
and the I think the challenge from kind of the male perspective with women is like you said
parts are in different places sensation is different some women’s nipples are sensitive sometimes
they’re not sometimes they’re oversensitive so it’s yeah it’s constantly relearning everybody’s

[01:01:12] [Unknown] stuff and where every one’s buttons are I’ll also say to kind of put a little bit of wait to

[01:01:20] [Guest] men they need to ask for what they like to and I have a hard time doing that and so I will freely
admit that I’m not exactly sure what I prefer for example with a blow job but I know I like it
all but like I could probably figure out a little bit better in terms of direction and how to guide

[01:01:41] [Unknown] and yeah we need to use our words more I know I know it’s funny though because I’ve asked you that

[01:01:51] [Ed] before and you go I just like it all and I’m like okay well that it’s kind of a cop out answer
yes I admit that my will do I put the finger up the butt now or do I not or do which one

[01:02:03] [Phoebe] now or ever I don’t know the one thing that’s come kind of come out of this or well there’s a lot
of things but just like the one thing I’m really into too is I love to study my partner and just
like you know pay attention to his body cues like is this stomach flexing like when he’s getting
close to orgasm his breathing patterns like how we sound all that stuff it’s like it’s really
exciting for me to sort of master you know his his intensity and just understanding what he needs
and what he wants and it’s fun I mean like you know if you really if you really kind of open
yourself to it and just it’s an exploratory adventure and how can I you know be like my goal is
selfishly like I just want to rock his world like I if I am good and I’m sure like you know like
all the women out there probably not either has right if I’m going to shake my legs everything do
the whole like procedure to get naked with you or you to come away from this going like damn like
she just fucking rocked me and my ego needs that like I want that so I so I pay attention the same
way I approach the partner the same way I would want my partner to approach me and that’s with
just a lot of like paying attention and mindfulness and being in the moment and just totally all about
his pleasure yeah and when you’re I think when you bring that level it absolutely I think
why found with men it comes back tenfold like they are so into getting you off and pleasing you
and you they just need a few little like game a few little markers road markers you’re in the right

[01:04:07] [Unknown] spot and you’re gonna for it yeah yeah yeah there was a there was a few experiences where I

[01:04:18] [Ed] was giving someone pleasure one was with a man and one was with a woman where that same
experience was happening the same thing that you described where the breathing changed you know
the I remember I was giving oral to this woman this was more recent that was fabulous it was
you know I knew I was doing something right when her legs clamped
over on my head and batted my ears and I’m like yeah and I’m like oh shit she’s gonna come and I’m
like just keep doing what you’re doing just keep doing what you’re doing and I want to like
I wanted to just like jump up and down I felt like a rock star I was like oh my god the power
in that moment in that euphoria they just washed over me like I did it I did it I was like oh I

[01:05:11] [Unknown] need more of that that was like amazing do you feel more like patting yourself on the back when
when you’ve done another woman like for me it’s like if I if I can like master her stuff I’m like

[01:05:25] [Phoebe] oh yeah like I don’t know why I take that I wear that more as a badge of honor like

[01:05:30] [Ed] yes I’m good but yeah yes I think probably because we can appreciate how complicated we are
and I don’t know all her buttons and I somehow magically figured it out because I have the secret
key into that world because I’m a woman also and so for somehow I’ve been granted the the

[01:05:52] [Guest] special past I love that you had a Freudian slip in there how you fingered it best figured it
out do I think it sounded like that maybe I’m just wishfully thinking oh yeah I’ll have to do

[01:06:05] [Unknown] a replay on that it was fabulous I need more I need more of that we have we have made that our agenda

[01:06:17] [Guest] right recently and that more female experience all right so it’s been great talking to you about
your adventures and your experiences and we do we had mentioned at the beginning of this that
you have your own podcast what what other services or what other offers do you have that you

[01:06:36] [Phoebe] can tell our audience about one of the things that I did straight away was I developed a bucket
list tutorial so that it’s free someone can go to the website which is my curious girl diaries.com
and in about 45 minutes you can I will help you crank out you know a sex bucket list
you can do that separately or with your partner and you’ll have at least you know three to five
good things if not more I say more but just saying if you just literally are low on
creative thinking I help you with that a lot but you’ll at least have three to five good solid
things that you can go and investigate you know as far as expanding your sexuality but probably
a way more than that and then I also have I do a private podcast so the private podcast is really
kind of more of a it’s a it’s a it’s a tribute to going back to my roots when I first
were just literally sit at my desk with no microphone no editing software and if I had an idea
I hit record it was just raw audio and it’s and but what I loved about that was that it was so
into authentic yeah and intimate so the private podcast is really like it’s it’s it’s it’s all of
it’s back to that it’s also the stories behind the stories the things that I didn’t talk about
on the podcast like what that the story that was going on with that person that nobody knew about
um it’s also the um just I have outtakes for my audio turtles that I kept at the time
that are very private it’s just I’ve gone extra spicy and it allows me to go deeper and connect
with my listeners even more so that’s what the private podcast is all about but I’m now expanding

[01:08:36] [Unknown] that into a community and that’s launching I’m changing so I’m changing the private podcast

[01:08:42] [Phoebe] into the more of a community format and that’ll be live should be in May uh and then the last
thing the last thing is I’m bringing on more curious girls so yes I’m so I’m building a podcast
network you know this model if when something’s based on solely you you can only take it so far
and I don’t know I can’t tell you that you know 20 years from now or however many years from now

[01:09:13] [Unknown] like I’ll want to be doing this right but but as it grew what I realized is it’s not about me it’s

[01:09:22] [Phoebe] about the message and the message is that ultimately I would love for sex and sexuality

[01:09:28] [Unknown] to be so commonplace like there is no right stigma around this stuff anymore our dialogue

[01:09:37] [Phoebe] is open we are not ashamed it’s normal and natural and my hope my ultimate hope is that
10 20 years from now somebody says oh my god you listen to the curious girl guys like my grandma
listens to that that is so freaking tame like when I am no longer salacious I have done my job

[01:10:00] [Guest] right that’s my yeah yeah yeah we’re we’re with you on that in in terms of kicking down those barriers
so that people can be comfortable with their own sexuality and and not have to feel ashamed
that they happen to enjoy sex um everybody does it so can we just get over that

[01:10:21] [Unknown] oh one last thing before you go if this episode helped you in any way the single best thing you

[01:10:44] [Guest] can do to support the show is leaving a rating and review it takes 60 seconds and helps new people

[01:10:51] [Unknown] find us when they’re searching for relationship education and we’ve made it easy visit swinger
university dot com forward slash review all the instructions are there thank you for being part
of this community we’ll see you again soon