Dirty Vanillas Are Ruining Swinging (Or Are They?)

[00:00:00:00 – 00:00:36:12]
(Music)

[00:00:36:12 – 00:00:51:25]
Speaker 1
breaking down a conversation that’s dividing the community. Now we’ve seen some conversations about this in different forums and news chats and…

[00:00:54:22 – 00:01:02:26]
Speaker 1
It’s surprising to me that it is such a controversy, but we’re gonna kind of dig through it and see if we can come up with maybe a better answer to it.

[00:01:04:14 – 00:01:18:18]
Speaker 1
Before we dive in, this isn’t a small conversation. According to recent data, one third of Americans say their ideal relationship is something other than complete monogamy. One third.

[00:01:20:01 – 00:01:20:07]
Speaker 1
That’s huge.

[00:01:21:07 – 00:01:22:24]
Speaker 1
That’s not fringe.

[00:01:22:24 – 00:01:32:10]
Speaker 1
That’s, you walk into any room and let’s say there’s a hundred people and there’s 30 people in there who are like, “Yeah, non-monogamy, it’s kind of cool.”

[00:01:34:15 – 00:01:43:15]
Speaker 1
So this whole debate about who “gets to belong,” it’s actually important to a lot of different people.

[00:01:44:15 – 00:01:48:13]
Speaker 1
We’ve been in the lifestyle for 12 years now,

[00:01:49:14 – 00:01:53:29]
Speaker 1
and here’s what we’ve learned. People don’t fit into boxes.

[00:01:53:29 – 00:02:05:26]
Speaker 4
As much as I want them to. To keep it orderly, to keep my environment orderly and my brain from going everywhere,

[00:02:05:26 – 00:02:11:13]
Speaker 4
knowing where I fit in and how to navigate.

[00:02:11:13 – 00:02:27:29]
Speaker 1
constantly surprised by how people categorize themselves or what they label their relationship or their play style, and we’ve seen preferences shift from week to week. So the same couple, two different events, completely different play style.

[00:02:29:06 – 00:02:32:20]
Speaker 1
We’ve also met people who don’t call themselves swingers,

[00:02:33:26 – 00:02:40:14]
Speaker 1
but they keep showing up to all the events. So clearly they’re getting something out of this community.

[00:02:40:14 – 00:03:12:26]
Speaker 4
is a conversation that is resonating with you, if you’re thinking about this stuff or you know people who are, drop a comment. Tell us what’s your take. Are you dirty vanilla? Are you full swap? Are you somewhere in the middle? We read the comments and that’s where the real conversation happens. And while you’re here, smash that like button. If you haven’t subscribed to Swinger University yet, now’s the time. New episodes every week. We’re breaking down the stuff nobody else is willing to talk about.

[00:03:12:26 – 00:03:15:21]
Speaker 1
here’s the real situation.

[00:03:16:23 – 00:03:22:24]
Speaker 1
The definition of who quote gets to call themselves a swinger has become incredibly complicated.

[00:03:24:01 – 00:03:34:13]
Speaker 1
And this debate about dirty vanilla is actually exposing a bigger problem. So let’s break down the data and see what it actually tells

[00:03:34:13 – 00:03:51:08]
Speaker 4
Gen Z, 41% are open to non-monogamous relationships. Breaking that down by age, among 18 to 44-year-old men, only 35% want complete monogamy. 46% want something in between.

[00:03:52:22 – 00:04:24:08]
Speaker 4
According to Match, 31% of singles have actually explored consensual non-monogamy. These aren’t accidents showing up at events. They’re intentionally seeking this out. And that doesn’t even include the quote accidents that we keep hearing about in the lifestyle. They’re longtime friends, birthday parties involved, lots of drinking. They have a hot tub, which is, as everybody knows, the gateway to swinging. So be careful.

[00:04:25:19 – 00:04:26:12]
Speaker 3
Or not.

[00:04:26:12 – 00:04:26:25]
Speaker 4
And then the other thing that we’re going to talk about is

[00:04:27:25 – 00:04:41:13]
Speaker 4
that they accidentally swap or do flirty things. And it becomes just this thing and they don’t know what it is. They don’t define it. They just do it.

[00:04:41:13 – 00:05:08:26]
Speaker 1
of accidental stumbling into or situational swinging that happens. And I think part of it is that classic definition of swing or everybody thinks keys in a bowl at a party back in the sixties. Yeah. Nobody, nobody really thinks that it’s kind of going on now. They hear about polyamory all the time. That’s been pretty popular and tons of TV shows about poly.

[00:05:08:26 – 00:05:23:16]
Speaker 4
But it’s interesting when you, in your mind, when you hear the word polyamory, you don’t think sex. When you hear swing or you think sex, it’s just a sex party. You’re a swinger and you have sex with everybody.

[00:05:23:16 – 00:05:28:04]
Speaker 4
that’s a tiny part of what swinging is, is the sex.

[00:05:28:04 – 00:05:51:11]
Speaker 1
someone shows up to an event and says, I’m not really, I’m not, we’re not really swingers. You know, we just like pineapples. I’ve seen shirts like that too. They might be telling the truth and they just want to be part of this thing that’s going on. And we’ve been to enough lifestyle parties where they’re fun parties and they’re not much different from a vanilla social event where

[00:05:52:11 – 00:05:54:11]
Speaker 1
everybody’s dancing, drinking,

[00:05:55:12 – 00:06:13:29]
Speaker 1
socializing. Just there’s an extra room off to the side where people are actually having sex. But other than that, it’s just there. So maybe the question isn’t why are vanilla’s at these events? Maybe it’s why are we

[00:06:13:29 – 00:06:15:25]
Speaker 1
who gets to belong?

[00:06:16:25 – 00:06:22:14]
Speaker 4
And that’s where this gets interesting.

[00:06:22:14 – 00:06:38:17]
Speaker 4
Swinging is messy as people are. And as a swinger, you will know if you’re active in the community that there’s a spectrum. There’s soft swap, full swap, watch, but don’t play solo play.

[00:06:39:17 – 00:06:48:15]
Speaker 4
Only playing with specific people, only playing on specific nights, and only when they’re in a specific mood.

[00:06:49:17 – 00:07:05:01]
Speaker 4
So it’s not black and white. And so even though we have those navigational definitions of soft and full, there’s still a spectrum in that as well.

[00:07:05:01 – 00:07:08:14]
Speaker 1
how many people on a bed for full swap?

[00:07:08:14 – 00:07:09:04]
Speaker 4
Right.

[00:07:09:04 – 00:07:14:05]
Speaker 1
Is it just you and the other person completely swapping? Is it separate room? Is it same room?

[00:07:15:21 – 00:07:16:20]
Speaker 1
Separate locations?

[00:07:18:07 – 00:07:18:13]
Speaker 1
Yeah,

[00:07:19:14 – 00:07:22:29]
Speaker 1
there’s so much. So labels are hard.

[00:07:22:29 – 00:07:32:18]
Speaker 4
Labels are hard. And then what are you into that night? You could define yourself as full swap, but then for that evening, you only want to do soft because you want to switch it up. Right.

[00:07:32:18 – 00:07:47:15]
Speaker 1
Right. So there’s no true version of Swinger. There’s just versions. There’s a whole gamut of ways that people define themselves and define how they swing.

[00:07:48:17 – 00:07:54:11]
Speaker 1
And after 12 years, we still meet couples whose definitions surprise us. Yeah.

[00:07:54:11 – 00:08:01:05]
Speaker 4
We met a couple in Costa Rica who called themselves Swinger adjacent.

[00:08:02:09 – 00:08:03:03]
Speaker 1
We love that term.

[00:08:03:03 – 00:08:04:23]
Speaker 4
I do love that term.

[00:08:05:23 – 00:08:39:09]
Speaker 4
And their exact words, we’ve never forgotten the sentence that they said to us when we asked them, are they full swap or soft swap? Their response was, we’re only for each other, but Swingers are some of the nicest and warmest people we’ve ever met. Yeah. Yeah. And I just love that we’re only for each other. And we spent a lot of time hanging out with them honestly because they were so nice. Yeah. Like I really wanted to go visit them.

[00:08:39:09 – 00:09:00:24]
Speaker 1
Yeah. And she was incredibly sexy. So it was fun hanging out with her, even if we knew nothing was ever going to happen, it was very nice to sit by the pool. Her outfits were great. Yeah. Like she fit in to every other definition of a participant in the event. Yes. Except for the swapping part.

[00:09:00:24 – 00:09:02:09]
Speaker 4
Right. Yeah.

[00:09:04:02 – 00:09:04:23]
Speaker 4
Why do they come?

[00:09:06:13 – 00:09:21:23]
Speaker 1
Well, they come for the community. And as you said, they’re the nicest people. So people are open. They’re nonjudgmental, warm, friendly. They’ll give you a hug and greet you. They don’t care what size you are, what shape you are.

[00:09:22:23 – 00:09:39:28]
Speaker 1
And there’s this whole atmosphere of anticipation and the themes and the outfits and you compliment each other. So it’s very kind of reassuring and comforting and it’s a huge ego boost.

[00:09:39:28 – 00:10:07:28]
Speaker 4
Yeah. All the time. It feels good to get compliments. Most people don’t get compliments during the day. And if you’re you’ve been with your spouse 20 years, you may not receive them as often as you used to in the beginning of your relationship. It feels good having your ego stroke. And eventually you get used to receiving those compliments. Even if you’re uncomfortable with them, you will get comfortable.

[00:10:07:28 – 00:10:16:04]
Speaker 1
Well, and I’ll take it a step further. The compliments that you get at a Swinger event are entirely different. That dress looks so good on you.

[00:10:16:04 – 00:10:16:23]
Speaker 4
Right.

[00:10:16:23 – 00:10:23:28]
Speaker 1
I really like your shoes. It’s wow. Your tits look fantastic in that dress.

[00:10:23:28 – 00:10:30:17]
Speaker 4
Yes. Yes. The compliments are richer, more exciting.

[00:10:30:17 – 00:10:33:12]
Speaker 1
Yeah. There’s some, there’s some juice to their

[00:10:33:12 – 00:10:34:12]
Speaker 5
to the lady.

[00:10:34:12 – 00:10:36:11]
Speaker 1
Oh, I see what you did there.

[00:10:38:05 – 00:10:48:03]
Speaker 1
So this whole thing kind of creates this charged atmosphere where everybody’s kind of escalated sexually.

[00:10:48:03 – 00:10:48:28]
Speaker 2
Yes.

[00:10:49:28 – 00:11:02:11]
Speaker 1
And this kind of supercharges everybody’s relationship. So not just the Swingers, but the dirty vanilla is too. They get, they get those feels to rub off on them as well.

[00:11:02:11 – 00:11:13:11]
Speaker 4
And I don’t, I don’t feel like that’s ruining anything. I just see that as participation. Right. Everyone is participating.

[00:11:14:14 – 00:11:28:26]
Speaker 1
Well, and, and that’s where it comes down to this next kind of aspect to it, which is you literally can’t know what a person’s play preferences until you talk to them. Right.

[00:11:30:00 – 00:11:49:25]
Speaker 1
And so you have to ask. So whether they’re vanilla or dirty vanilla or full swap, you still have to have that initial conversation with them. And having that conversation changes from time to time. As we said, people aren’t static.

[00:11:49:25 – 00:12:06:24]
Speaker 4
You might have a couple of full swap couple that you met at a lifestyle party in June, right? Right. Right in the middle of summer. And by September you see them at another house party and all of a sudden they’re taking a break.

[00:12:08:01 – 00:12:12:06]
Speaker 4
And then you see them again in November and they’re back at it.

[00:12:13:22 – 00:12:40:13]
Speaker 4
But then maybe they’re not in it the following year. And we’ve seen this happen on off break, stop, start, you know, and a lot of times usually what happens is we see people often for a whole year, maybe a whole year and a half, and then we just don’t see them ever again. Yeah. Yeah. And that, that gets kind of sad because you get used to seeing them and you enjoy their company and they’re gone.

[00:12:40:13 – 00:12:41:14]
Speaker 1
Yeah.

[00:12:42:28 – 00:13:08:02]
Speaker 1
The other aspect of this is we’re all people working on our relationships and not every relationship is going to have perfect days all the time. Right. And sometimes couples get in fights at events and it completely changes the vibe for that event or that trip. And so you may see them at the beginning of the week at hedonism and not so much at the end of the week.

[00:13:09:09 – 00:13:11:07]
Speaker 1
We have had that happen.

[00:13:11:07 – 00:13:18:03]
Speaker 4
We have, we have even seen one partner of the couple change their flight and go home early.

[00:13:18:03 – 00:13:19:11]
Speaker 1
Yes.

[00:13:19:11 – 00:13:20:20]
Speaker 4
That’s bad.

[00:13:20:20 – 00:13:22:28]
Speaker 1
That, that’s particularly bad. Right.

[00:13:23:28 – 00:13:29:09]
Speaker 1
interesting thing is you get the flip side for the dirty vanilla’s and they show up just to observe.

[00:13:29:09 – 00:13:43:04]
Speaker 1
Right. We’re just here to observe. We’re shy. We’re new. Never done this before. Next thing you know, they’re in like an eight person pile up in the middle of the playroom and you’re like, well, okay, way to just like pull

[00:13:43:04 – 00:13:44:02]
Speaker 1
go for it.

[00:13:44:02 – 00:13:46:26]
Speaker 4
I always feel really proud in those moments. I was like,

[00:13:46:26 – 00:13:47:22]
Speaker 5
yay,

[00:13:47:22 – 00:13:55:04]
Speaker 4
they made it happen. Like you, it’s like witnessing a child walking for the first time. And you’re like,

[00:13:55:04 – 00:14:06:24]
Speaker 1
yeah, we need a little thing. Like it’s a good life. So it’s like every time you hear a condom torn open, a swinger gets their wings or something. I don’t know what it would be, but

[00:14:06:24 – 00:14:22:05]
Speaker 1
much of this is that people kind of grow into this space. And because it’s such a comfortable environment where people don’t feel constrained, it lets them be fluid in however they’re feeling at that moment.

[00:14:22:05 – 00:14:32:29]
Speaker 4
One of the labels that people like in the community or have tried in some of these communities are to use bracelets, color coding.

[00:14:32:29 – 00:14:37:02]
Speaker 1
Yes. Or the necklaces on the cruise. We’ve seen that as well, too.

[00:14:37:02 – 00:14:48:14]
Speaker 4
Right. And, you know, it’s supposed to help you identify who’s soft, who’s full, who’s not, whatever, whatever category they decided.

[00:14:48:14 – 00:15:02:11]
Speaker 1
they get a little weird. So let’s say you walk up to a couple and they’ve got the green bracelet for full go. Right. They’re full swap. They have no boundaries. They’re like all holes go for it.

[00:15:04:16 – 00:15:10:13]
Speaker 1
But that doesn’t apply to every couple. That’s not full go for anybody who walks up to them.

[00:15:11:23 – 00:15:15:13]
Speaker 1
That’s just the general sense of where they’re at.

[00:15:15:13 – 00:15:16:04]
Speaker 2
Right.

[00:15:16:04 – 00:15:30:01]
Speaker 1
And somebody who’s maybe soft swap, but we see this so many times on profiles where it’s soft swap or if the vibe is right, full swap. Yeah. Okay. Well then which bracelet do you wear?

[00:15:30:01 – 00:15:30:20]
Speaker 4
Right.

[00:15:30:20 – 00:15:31:25]
Speaker 2
Right.

[00:15:31:25 – 00:15:48:18]
Speaker 1
Because you don’t want to do the green one because then you’re advertising that you’re full swap, but you’re really only situationally full swap. It just gets complicated. And then what you end up with is like a pocket full of bracelets. And then you’re like, okay, which honey, how are we feeling tonight?

[00:15:48:18 – 00:16:19:02]
Speaker 4
Then you got to put the right one on. We’ve done that. We’ve switched bracelets during. Yeah, we have. And I think the downside to with these color coding identifiers is if you get someone that’s very focused on only talking with full swap couples, they miss on on these opportunities to really get to know nice people who happen to have this is like what the stars star belly snitches.

[00:16:19:02 – 00:16:47:11]
Speaker 1
Right. Yeah, this is a really good example of the doctor who store doctor Seuss, not doctor who totally different show. Dr Seuss story of the star belly snitches. So the cool kids all have stars. The ones that are not cool didn’t have stars. And so there was a guy that came down and he would sell them for X number of dollars, put a star on their belly, and then everybody got all mixed up. And by the end of it, everybody was like, well, I guess we just have to talk to people and get to know them.

[00:16:47:11 – 00:16:48:05]
Speaker 2
Right.

[00:16:48:05 – 00:17:05:17]
Speaker 1
Which is kind of where this whole concept of gatekeeping is a little bit ironic because you don’t know who you’re talking to. You don’t know how they’re going to turn out in labeling somebody before you even have a conversation with them.

[00:17:08:05 – 00:17:11:26]
Speaker 1
It doesn’t it just doesn’t work. Yeah, it doesn’t apply.

[00:17:11:26 – 00:17:12:13]
Speaker 2
Right.

[00:17:12:13 – 00:17:22:01]
Speaker 1
you can’t use a label or past behavior to know what someone’s actually open to, what do you do?

[00:17:23:25 – 00:17:36:07]
Speaker 1
How do you fix this? How do you actually know what works? Well, by the end of this, we’re going to show you the tool that actually works. And it might seem a little too simple to be true.

[00:17:36:07 – 00:17:44:04]
Speaker 1
If you’re a swing or adjacent, full swap, soft swap, or trying to figure out your lane, we’ve got something for you.

[00:17:45:06 – 00:17:53:22]
Speaker 1
We’ve got great t-shirts that perfectly match whatever mood you’re in or whatever event you’re at or just wearing around town.

[00:17:54:24 – 00:18:05:08]
Speaker 1
And it helps remind people that you’re part of a community that gets it. Every piece is designed by people who actually live this lifestyle

[00:18:05:08 – 00:18:07:23]
Speaker 1
actually live the lifestyle.

[00:18:09:01 – 00:18:31:27]
Speaker 1
So check out swingerlinks.com. We have the link in the description. And every piece of merch that we sell supports our podcast, our show, and helps to keep us going so that we can produce more education, more real talk, and continue the low judgment lifestyle.

[00:18:31:27 – 00:18:41:24]
Speaker 4
talking about gatekeeping in the lifestyle and you and I had a conversation earlier this week about how ironic it is.

[00:18:41:24 – 00:18:42:03]
Speaker 3
Yeah.

[00:18:42:03 – 00:18:43:12]
Speaker 4
Because the gatekeeping

[00:18:43:12 – 00:18:46:14]
Speaker 4
weed out those that aren’t.

[00:18:46:14 – 00:18:47:08]
Speaker 1
Some definition.

[00:18:47:08 – 00:18:50:09]
Speaker 4
Aren’t like us or them.

[00:18:50:09 – 00:18:50:17]
Speaker 3
Right.

[00:18:50:17 – 00:18:58:17]
Speaker 4
And yet we promote open. Yeah. Loving caring, welcoming.

[00:18:58:17 – 00:19:02:09]
Speaker 1
Right. But only if you fit this narrow criteria.

[00:19:02:09 – 00:19:05:17]
Speaker 4
Right. So it’s it’s like.

[00:19:07:00 – 00:19:11:11]
Speaker 4
It’s an oxymoron almost or or I guess. Yeah, it’s opposite.

[00:19:12:13 – 00:19:22:19]
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s in the face of what swinging is about or what being sex positive is about. Right. And being sex positive.

[00:19:23:29 – 00:19:28:18]
Speaker 1
You should be open to everybody and how they express it. Right.

[00:19:28:18 – 00:19:33:11]
Speaker 4
At the end of the day, there’s one tool that really works.

[00:19:33:11 – 00:19:34:18]
Speaker 4
Asking.

[00:19:36:13 – 00:19:36:19]
Speaker 4
What?

[00:19:38:18 – 00:19:57:11]
Speaker 1
Yeah, communication is the only real tool and vetting isn’t about judging people. It’s about making sure everybody’s on the same page and comfortable. And this is one of the biggest arguments that you and I have all the time about the lifestyle versus the BDSM community.

[00:19:58:21 – 00:20:02:05]
Speaker 1
And that’s if this sounds a lot like consent.

[00:20:03:17 – 00:20:23:20]
Speaker 1
It is about having that conversation and figuring out what page everybody’s on and everybody’s going to be on a different page. So you have to have that conversation. So you might as well just get comfortable talking to other people about what their play preferences are and what they want to do at that particular event.

[00:20:23:20 – 00:20:39:11]
Speaker 4
I don’t think the majority of swingers are comfortable asking. There’s very few and I would say maybe 10 percent, 15 percent of the swingers are actually really good with their words. That

[00:20:39:11 – 00:20:50:13]
Speaker 4
They say what they want and they ask for what they want or they ask others what they what they’re into. Right. And most people aren’t that forward.

[00:20:50:13 – 00:21:15:14]
Speaker 1
I think it’s a comfort thing. I think it has to do with that fear of rejection. Yes. That fear that a couple is too hot or that they’re not going to be interested in you. And we’re surprised a lot by results and asking people and starting that conversation and kind of what comes out of that.

[00:21:16:21 – 00:21:19:11]
Speaker 1
And we’ve been approached by people, which is flattering.

[00:21:19:11 – 00:21:20:06]
Speaker 2
Yeah.

[00:21:20:06 – 00:21:42:02]
Speaker 1
And we’ve also noticed that hot people don’t get approached because everybody’s scared of them. So if you do approach them, they’re appreciative and you just became a lot closer to actually having them as a partner because they’re like, oh, my God, you guys actually came and talked to us. That’s so sweet. That’s so nice. Do you want to come back to our room?

[00:21:42:02 – 00:21:52:00]
Speaker 4
It’s so weird. We’ve encountered this many times where the when we say hot people, they’re they’re like the to give you an example.

[00:21:53:02 – 00:22:26:06]
Speaker 4
They look like they basically stepped out of a magazine, right? A Photoshop magazine. And you’re like, wow, who’s that? Right. And they it’s funny because you would think the that type of person would be super popular. Right. But they’re not. They’re almost shunned because they’re so beautiful that no one feels confident to go up to them because they think, oh, they’ll never talk to me. They’ll never like me. They’ll never.

[00:22:26:06 – 00:22:27:25]
Speaker 1
A hundred percent. We’re getting rejected.

[00:22:27:25 – 00:22:34:27]
Speaker 4
So now they’re the ones that are like stuck in the corner. Right. And not having a good time. Right. I’ve seen that time and time again.

[00:22:34:27 – 00:22:54:26]
Speaker 1
We have. And this is where kind of this whole approach and we’ve we’ve had episodes where we’ve talked about this whole thing, but we’re going to go into it a little bit more because it’s so critical to this conversation, which is there’s an opener. So what’s an opener? Is this your first time at a Swinger event?

[00:22:56:13 – 00:23:02:07]
Speaker 1
This works really well because it instantly tells you if they’re new or if they’re experienced

[00:23:02:07 – 00:23:07:22]
Speaker 1
because if they’re new, you ask one set of questions. And if they’re seasoned, then you ask them other questions. Right.

[00:23:07:22 – 00:23:09:06]
Speaker 4
Exactly.

[00:23:10:09 – 00:23:15:26]
Speaker 4
And the geography is important when you’re asking these questions.

[00:23:17:01 – 00:23:22:26]
Speaker 4
So you would you would want to know what events they go to or have been to.

[00:23:22:26 – 00:23:23:05]
Speaker 3
Right.

[00:23:23:05 – 00:23:38:28]
Speaker 4
What types of vacations they go on, what types of resorts that they’ve been to. And you get to figure out if like if they tell you, oh, we only go to meet and greets.

[00:23:38:28 – 00:23:39:07]
Speaker 3
Right.

[00:23:39:07 – 00:23:45:01]
Speaker 4
OK, well, that might be an indication of where their level of comfort is in the lifestyle.

[00:23:45:01 – 00:23:46:18]
Speaker 3
Right. Right.

[00:23:46:18 – 00:23:50:00]
Speaker 4
Or they’ll say, oh, my gosh, we’re at desire every weekend.

[00:23:51:08 – 00:23:51:14]
Speaker 4
OK.

[00:23:51:14 – 00:23:52:16]
Speaker 1
I want to meet that couple.

[00:23:55:00 – 00:24:00:10]
Speaker 4
So it gives you a little bit of a measurement of kind of where they’re at.

[00:24:00:10 – 00:24:13:10]
Speaker 1
can give you a little bit of an indication, too, in terms of if they like big events, that they’re comfortable kind of mingling or if they like more intimate events, which means they may be a little more shy and they get overwhelmed easy.

[00:24:14:10 – 00:24:16:15]
Speaker 1
It’s not 100 percent,

[00:24:16:15 – 00:24:22:20]
Speaker 4
let’s let’s just take the couple that goes to desire every weekend. Right. Maybe they never play with anyone.

[00:24:22:20 – 00:24:23:21]
Speaker 3
Right.

[00:24:23:21 – 00:24:31:08]
Speaker 4
Maybe they just like the resort because it’s relaxing. It’s it’s open. It’s free. They get to be new. They get to do sexy stuff.

[00:24:31:08 – 00:24:31:18]
Speaker 3
Right.

[00:24:31:18 – 00:24:38:02]
Speaker 4
By themselves in front of other people. Yeah. And that’s why they love to go.

[00:24:38:02 – 00:24:39:23]
Speaker 1
They could just be exhibitionists,

[00:24:40:29 – 00:24:57:15]
Speaker 1
which actually, if you if we think about it, even if you had just a bunch of exhibitionists, dirty swingers, they’re at least setting the atmosphere for everybody else. Right. Right. Like you may not be swapping with them, but you get to hear them make all the great noises and bounce up and down and do the stuff.

[00:24:58:22 – 00:24:59:20]
Speaker 4
Do the stuff.

[00:25:00:28 – 00:25:04:20]
Speaker 1
Like that’s great. Like they’re the entertainment, if nothing else.

[00:25:07:11 – 00:25:53:02]
Speaker 1
So the last part of this really is the honest question, which is how do you define your play style? What does that look like for you? This is where you start to get to the nitty gritty in terms of, OK, you say you’re soft or you say you’re full. But what does that really mean? You start to hear about their boundaries. You start to hear about what their rules are. And this works because it tells you where they actually want to be, what they actually want out of that experience. And because it changes from event to event or moment to moment, you’re at least now you’re on the same page as them. You start to understand. And their answer may change depending on who’s asking the question to.

[00:25:53:02 – 00:25:53:28]
Speaker 4
Right.

[00:25:55:01 – 00:25:55:16]
Speaker 4
Exactly.

[00:25:55:16 – 00:26:14:05]
Speaker 1
So it’s important to ask that question because they may you may have overheard them say they’re full swap, but then you talk to them and they’re not. Or they were soft swap, but then you talk to them and they’re like, oh, no, we just said that to that couple. You’re you. Yeah, we’re we want to go to our room.

[00:26:20:16 – 00:26:41:10]
Speaker 1
So there’s a whole range of answers from we don’t play, we just watch, we’re exploring. Maybe they don’t like playrooms. Maybe they don’t like settings. Maybe they prefer something that’s in a closed room or they’re full swap and they’re ready to go, which which has happened to us.

[00:26:42:28 – 00:26:50:18]
Speaker 4
So let’s talk about what changes when you ask. All right. Because now you’ve asked and here’s a here’s a few examples.

[00:26:51:26 – 00:26:57:08]
Speaker 4
Someone assumes your staff when you’re not right because you’re so friendly.

[00:26:57:08 – 00:27:07:01]
Speaker 1
Or you gave them a tour at the event and they just assume that you’re off limits because you gave them a tour and you’re like, oh, no, no, let me correct that very quickly. Right.

[00:27:07:01 – 00:27:23:08]
Speaker 4
Because now they see you differently and don’t think that you can play or approachable because staff gets in trouble when they do that. Exactly. Right. The other example would be if a couple assumes everyone at the event is experienced.

[00:27:23:08 – 00:27:23:27]
Speaker 3
Right.

[00:27:23:27 – 00:27:35:16]
Speaker 4
They’re all friends. You get invited to the group and you know that they’ve been traveling together and they’re going to go do this event. And you just assume that they’ve all slept with one another. Right. Because it’s like.

[00:27:36:20 – 00:27:37:27]
Speaker 1
They’re because they’re a thing.

[00:27:37:27 – 00:27:52:24]
Speaker 4
They’re coming week every time they’re they’re they’re together. So that that’s not always the case. And it’s important to admit that you’re new.

[00:27:52:24 – 00:27:53:04]
Speaker 3
Right.

[00:27:54:14 – 00:27:57:20]
Speaker 4
In these situations, too, because people can be very welcoming.

[00:27:58:26 – 00:28:00:01]
Speaker 1
Yeah. And it really sets that.

[00:28:02:08 – 00:28:20:07]
Speaker 1
Correct expectations to what’s going on. Speaking of that, there’s also this whole assumption of women in the lifestyle having to be by and you can’t swing unless you’re by because, of course, the girls have to kick the party off. And so the girls have to make out and then the guys joint.

[00:28:21:20 – 00:28:25:27]
Speaker 1
That’s not always a thing. Sometimes it’s a thing. Sometimes it’s not a thing.

[00:28:25:27 – 00:28:29:18]
Speaker 4
I actually hate that. I don’t like it.

[00:28:29:18 – 00:28:31:02]
Speaker 1
Being being labeled.

[00:28:32:20 – 00:28:42:27]
Speaker 4
I mean, I think that’s a good question. Yes. And then, you know, that pressure that the women. Have to kick off the party. And yes, I understand we are the brakes and the gas. But.

[00:28:44:01 – 00:28:47:24]
Speaker 4
Side note. The some of the parties we’ve been to that.

[00:28:48:29 – 00:28:59:01]
Speaker 4
I don’t, I don’t like when hosts do this and they, they’ve stopped doing it. Where at 10 o’clock you have to do a costume change. And everyone has to be in underwear.

[00:29:01:21 – 00:29:03:12]
Speaker 4
I don’t like doing it. What if I’m not comfortable?

[00:29:04:12 – 00:29:09:23]
Speaker 4
What if I’m neuro divergent and I don’t want to do that? I want to keep my clothes on because I’m not comfortable. I don’t know anybody in the room.

[00:29:09:23 – 00:29:10:02]
Speaker 3
Right.

[00:29:11:27 – 00:29:12:26]
Speaker 4
That can be really awkward.

[00:29:12:26 – 00:29:21:19]
Speaker 1
Well, and it sets people up for an expectation or a rule that everyone has to do X.

[00:29:22:20 – 00:29:30:25]
Speaker 1
Well, that’s the same as saying everybody has to full swap or everybody who goes to this party. And we do know of parties that are like that.

[00:29:30:25 – 00:29:32:10]
Speaker 4
Right. I know.

[00:29:33:12 – 00:29:43:13]
Speaker 4
These simple questions and honest answers change someone’s entire experience. Right. So they’re important.

[00:29:45:05 – 00:29:56:12]
Speaker 1
So the bigger picture for this whole thing is non-swingers at events have figured this out and it’s time for the rest of us to get on board with that. And that is. Swingers don’t attack people.

[00:29:57:16 – 00:30:05:27]
Speaker 1
They won’t shame you and they won’t exclude you. Like everybody’s welcome at a Swinger party doesn’t matter which size shape color you are.

[00:30:06:29 – 00:30:27:16]
Speaker 1
And that’s the best thing about Swinger events. They’re the nicest people. The assumption is everyone’s exploring their sexuality in their own way. So it may not be your way but they’re out there exploring for sure. They’re pushing boundaries. They’re trying new things. They are not lights off missionary.

[00:30:29:05 – 00:30:34:17]
Speaker 1
Right. Like they want to be in a sexy environment. So like embrace that.

[00:30:34:17 – 00:30:40:04]
Speaker 4
Although I have seen lights off missionary at a Swinger party. Well you know sometimes missionaries.

[00:30:40:04 – 00:30:54:27]
Speaker 1
I like missionary personally but that’s the that’s the stereotype. Right. So instead of gatekeeping how do we keep this vibe going. Like how do we keep this free open environment where everybody’s having a good time.

[00:30:55:29 – 00:31:00:27]
Speaker 1
How do we stay curious and stop being judgmental.

[00:31:00:27 – 00:31:01:19]
Speaker 2
Yeah.

[00:31:01:19 – 00:31:02:24]
Speaker 4
Yeah.

[00:31:05:06 – 00:31:15:28]
Speaker 4
You have to approach it with a different mindset. Be direct about what you want. You learn to be comfortable selling yourself. That comes with time.

[00:31:15:28 – 00:31:16:17]
Speaker 3
Yeah.

[00:31:16:17 – 00:31:20:20]
Speaker 4
You’ve been a relationship 20 relationship for 20 years.

[00:31:22:05 – 00:31:30:11]
Speaker 4
You may not be used to putting yourself out there. You never work. Maybe you were in your 20s but you’re not in your 40s. Maybe you’ve never done it.

[00:31:32:19 – 00:31:44:24]
Speaker 4
Be very clear about your boundaries. And that can be challenging because women can be people pleasers. They want to make sure everyone’s having a good time. You don’t want to cause waves.

[00:31:45:27 – 00:32:01:05]
Speaker 4
And I don’t know what percentage of women fall under that category but you know they. It’s it’s hard to. It’s it’s a lot of pressure honestly if you’ve got four or six people on the bed and you’re the one pulling the rip cord.

[00:32:01:05 – 00:32:01:19]
Speaker 2
Right.

[00:32:01:19 – 00:32:25:21]
Speaker 4
That means two out of the four may you know may not be having a good time. So you’re kind of in charge for other people’s pleasure but not really you’re you’re you in the end you really do want to honor yourself and get people that opportunity to make a different choice and be in charge of where they want to go with their pleasure. Yeah.

[00:32:25:21 – 00:32:26:10]
Speaker 3
Yeah.

[00:32:26:10 – 00:32:27:19]
Speaker 4
That was really good.

[00:32:27:19 – 00:32:28:24]
Speaker 1
Yeah. It was great.

[00:32:30:05 – 00:32:43:00]
Speaker 1
So it’s a skill. It’s awkward at first but just like anything with practice it gets easier to ask say no say yes. Practice your consent skills.

[00:32:44:01 – 00:33:01:02]
Speaker 1
And most importantly stay curious. Stay curious to find out why those dirty vanilla is are at the event. What what drove them to this. What’s their backstory. They’ve got a great story because clearly they’re at the right place. Right. So they got there for a reason.

[00:33:02:02 – 00:33:12:25]
Speaker 1
And then once you get that it kind of changes how you move through this space. If you’ve got that curious mindset if you’ve got that sex positive mindset.

[00:33:14:05 – 00:33:29:07]
Speaker 1
We think you’re going to have a better time. We think it’s less about the goal and more about the journey. It’s not about getting laid. It’s about having a great time and probably getting late.

[00:33:33:05 – 00:33:43:06]
Speaker 4
The real takeaway is that you literally cannot know someone’s full story without having conversation.

[00:33:44:24 – 00:33:46:05]
Speaker 4
And that’s actually beautiful.

[00:33:47:07 – 00:33:55:05]
Speaker 4
It means there’s always room for connection surprise and people to show up in their full selves.

[00:33:56:08 – 00:34:10:00]
Speaker 1
Here’s the thing. Creating this content is real unfiltered and honest conversations about ethical non-monogamy. It takes resources time and a whole team of two.

[00:34:11:07 – 00:34:20:07]
Speaker 1
If this episode resonated with you and you want to be part of making sure we keep doing this work. Consider becoming a patron on Patreon.

[00:34:21:22 – 00:34:41:22]
Speaker 1
Patrons get early access to new episodes exclusive behind the scenes content. We do live Q&A’s where we dig deeper into community questions. We have a Discord where you can have conversations away from the dirty vanilla’s because all the patrons are in there having those great conversations.

[00:34:41:22 – 00:34:43:17]
Speaker 4
We have sexy photos.

[00:34:44:29 – 00:34:55:02]
Speaker 1
And we tell sexy stories. Yes. Stuff that we can’t say or talk about here on YouTube or on the podcast. Right.

[00:34:56:16 – 00:35:10:15]
Speaker 1
Join us and become part of what Swinger University is building. This community is only as strong as the people who invest in it. And if you are curious to joining.

[00:35:12:16 – 00:35:16:11]
Speaker 1
Follow the links and we’ve got those in the description. And if you

[00:35:16:11 – 00:37:28:14]
(Music)

[00:37:28:14 – 00:37:39:15]