How To Find Other Uses for Your Tongue

[00:13] [Ed] Hi everyone, welcome back. This is Ed and this is Phoebe at Swinger University. Today we were talking about communication with others.

[00:24] [Phoebe] How do you handle communications? Do you have a primary communicator? What is too much or not enough? How do you switch from being a passive communicator to active?
How should you let somebody down?

[00:37] [Ed] We’ve covered having the conversation, we’ve covered setting up your online profile and last time we talked about communicating with your partner.
Now we’re going to talk about communicating with other people. Now that your profile is live, you’re going to have conversation with other people.

[00:55] [Phoebe] Conversations typically go with a primary communicator or in group communication.
A primary communicator typically is one partner that takes care of all of it. They’re monitoring the online emails, chats, likes, friend requests, text messages.
If you get on-kick and you’re messaging in that regard, they will do that as well.
That’s how we set it up in our relationship, although I’m a little more involved now.
But my work life is very busy, family life is very busy. It’s just easier to have one person monitoring that and then providing that information back.
So this is a preference for some couples. It works well for us. We’ve heard from other couples that…

[01:48] [Ed] Well, they have reservations about one person handling all of the communications. They feel weird about it. Like the other person isn’t participating. Something must be wrong.

[02:01] [Phoebe] Right, I’m just busy. And I don’t always like these interfaces that we’re using. So they’re frustrating and I just rather have it do it.

[02:12] [Ed] Right. I work with computers all the time, figuring out the apps out. It’s easy. I can run in, chat something up, send it out.
And when we talked about online profiles, we know that some of these sites are really old and a little quirky.

[02:31] [Guest] Yes.

[02:32] [Ed] And I’ve spent enough time on some of these sites, so I understand the idiosyncrasies about clicking and navigating them.
And it’d be great if we didn’t have those problems, but unfortunately that’s just how the sites are.
Yes. So I’ve taken on that role as this primary communicator.
But we do have some group fun every once in a while.

[02:59] [Unknown] Yeah.

[03:00] [Ed] Typically we will all come into a kick conversation. We’ve had a new couple and we’ll all participate and we’ll send messages back and forth.

[03:10] [Phoebe] Yes. It’s fun. It’s flirty. I like it. It’s a great way to stay connected, organize your messages and keep everyone on the same page.

[03:20] [Ed] Right. And we’ve had a lot of fun with it. One of the couples that we’re in contact with, we’re setting something up in the near future to go hang out with them.
And it’s just a big thread of conversation about what the plans are. Who’s going where? Can we sleep over?

[03:36] [Unknown] Yeah.

[03:37] [Ed] Where are we sleeping?

[03:40] [Phoebe] I know. It’s fun. It’s a little flirting here and there. It does. It keeps everything alive.

[03:49] [Ed] The one problem that we found with it is not everybody’s on all the time.
Right.
So it still ends up being one or two people having most of the conversation.
So you’re participating, but it’s still fairly passive on most people’s part.
Yes. Everybody’s busy. You’ve got your own things going on.

[04:11] [Phoebe] Yeah. Different hobbies, life, work, family, all that stuff.

[04:14] [Ed] Exactly. Which brings us to a lot of conversation or a little conversation.
And we’ve got some pretty strong opinions about this and something that we’d like to pass on.
A lot. Some people like to get into this heavy interview, lots of questions, lots of back and forth instead of just reading a profile or having a well-written profile.
It becomes this chat fest of sending stuff back and forth.
Now, I found that what happens is people read a profile. They contact you.
They forget what was in the profile and then they just start asking you a bunch of questions.
I had that happen the other day. Could you send a picture? I’m like, we have pictures on our profile. All of them.
With our faces. Okay. I’ll send you another picture.

[05:05] [Phoebe] Oh, you were nice.

[05:07] [Ed] I’m a nice guy. But it was it was one of those things where it’s like really dude.
There’s you found me through my profile and contacted me and that’s how we’re having this conversation right now.

[05:23] [Unknown] Anyway, it happens. So this volume of conversation starts happening.

[05:30] [Ed] Some people speaking to that discomfort with the one side of conversation or maybe only one partner being there,
they like to voice or video verify that there’s an actual woman with the partner.

[05:44] [Guest] Yes.

[05:45] [Unknown] And we’ve had some interesting experiences with video verification.

[05:50] [Ed] We found some people who were fishing for photos trying to, I don’t know what they were trying to get.
But we were like, we’re happy to video verify. Let’s get on a group video chat.
Radio silence.
Yeah. Nothing. Yeah.
So it works out okay. But I would recommend doing something like a group video chat so that everybody’s on it once.
Don’t send a video of yourself. It just makes it much easier and it’s much safer to just get everybody on the same page.

[06:21] [Phoebe] We do have friends that well they used to do this more often when Craigslist allowed you to post fun things on there for get together.
But they would have the woman verify the woman would need to call and speak to the other woman because they’re having them over to their house.
They didn’t want a single guy coming over.
They wanted to make sure she’s on board because they had a few bad experiences where a guy shows up with some curly just, you know, met that night at the bar.
And she’s not even fully 100% engaged in this. And so he’s like lying and then she shows up and she’s like deer in the headlights and like, oh, no, this is not okay.

[07:07] [Unknown] So, you know, that was valuable for them because of the style of play that they were involved in.

[07:14] [Phoebe] They’re inviting people to their home.
Absolutely. They’re posting ads in a different way. And so that really worked well for them.

[07:20] [Ed] Yeah, and I think that that’s still a pretty good policy if you’re going to meet someone for the first time and you’re having them over to your house.
Sure.
First, I wouldn’t recommend that. I would say drink date.
Yeah, go do a drink date. You may not even like this person, right?

[07:35] [Unknown] I recommend that for single people, not swimmers.

[07:40] [Ed] Look, don’t get involved in like a four hour four-course meal with somebody who you may not even like to have conversations with.

[07:47] [Unknown] Let alone invite them back to your house to have fun times.

[07:53] [Ed] Who knows? They may have sent you crazy photos of somebody else.

[07:58] [Phoebe] I know.

[07:59] [Ed] How do you know?

[08:00] [Phoebe] You don’t.

[08:01] [Unknown] Right. So, public drink date first.

[08:05] [Ed] Yes.
Best.

[08:09] [Phoebe] Some of the items in the communication are explicit desires, whether you’re soft, whether you’re full, kissing rule.
Some people go as far as to say, I don’t like anal.
We never typically bring that up because it’s generally a no fuck zone.
Unless you’re with a couple that you see on a regular basis and you like experimenting and you’re very safe with them.
And you’ve got some long-term history and you want to explore those areas, but on the first date.

[08:47] [Ed] She said explore those areas.
Nobody does that.
Well, and I got to say, there’s lots of other things to do and I may be weird and maybe the only guy in America that’s not all up about anal.
But I don’t know why it’s such a big thing now.

[09:02] [Phoebe] I think it’s mostly marketing.
I guess.

[09:05] [Ed] Or lots of Catholics in the audience.
I don’t know.

[09:10] [Phoebe] I do like it.
We just, you know, it’s not one of our…

[09:14] [Ed] It’s probably eighth on the list of things that we like to do.

[09:18] [Unknown] Yeah.
Anyway.

[09:20] [Phoebe] Yeah. There’s so many things.
There’s lots of things to do.

[09:25] [Unknown] So some, there’s some pitfalls with this a lot of conversation, as you will.

[09:32] [Ed] Don’t get hung up on all of these details that you get through text.
One, people are different in real life than they are in text.
Text provides you an opportunity to think and craft that salacious, sexy, well-crafted sentence.
You get the person in real life.
They can’t string three or four words together in a sentence.

[10:01] [Unknown] Right.

[10:02] [Ed] Don’t think for a second that the person that you meet online is the same that you’re going to meet in person.
People are different online.

[10:10] [Unknown] Yeah.

[10:12] [Ed] Second con is spending a lot of time before you meet.
And I got some stories about this one.
We decided we were going to go on a trip to Vegas.
We’d never been.
No.
Phoebe had been.
I’d never been.
This is my first trip to Vegas.
And I said, great.
That’s in city.

[10:36] [Phoebe] That’s post a hot date.

[10:38] [Ed] Yeah, let’s get some ass while we’re in Vegas.

[10:41] [Unknown] I mean, what else are we going to do?

[10:43] [Ed] We don’t gamble.
We got a couple shows planned.

[10:47] [Unknown] But other than that, what is there to do in Vegas?

[10:51] [Ed] Drink.
Don’t drink a lot.

[10:54] [Unknown] Drink a little.

[10:56] [Ed] Anyway, so we post a hot date.
We get a conversation started with a couple from…

[11:05] [Phoebe] Back east.

[11:06] [Ed] Virginia, Washington, D.C.
Something like that.

[11:10] [Guest] I think so.

[11:11] [Ed] In that area.
Oh my god.
They’re tens.
I mean, they’re probably the hottest people we’ve met ever.

[11:24] [Unknown] Through a swing or dating profile, anything.

[11:30] [Ed] Great.
Both of them are very fit.
They work out regularly.
She competes as a fitness model.
He’s no slouch either.
He doesn’t compete.

[11:44] [Unknown] But…

[11:45] [Phoebe] Ex-military.
So he’s taking care of himself.

[11:48] [Ed] Yeah.

[11:49] [Unknown] Tattoo’s beautiful people.

[11:52] [Ed] Yeah.
Great looking.
We’re texting back and forth.
We’ve got pictures going.
We’re going, oh my god.

[11:59] [Unknown] Vegas is going to be off the hook.

[12:03] [Ed] We get there.
We contact them.
We decide we’re going to go meet at the pool.
We meet at the pool.
We meet at the pool.

[12:11] [Unknown] So we’re all mostly naked anyway.

[12:14] [Ed] Because what do you wear at a pool?

[12:16] [Guest] Right.

[12:17] [Ed] I’m basically in my underwear.

[12:19] [Unknown] Phoebe’s in her lingerie.

[12:23] [Ed] It’s Lycra and it’s a swimsuit.
But it’s basically the same thing.
And we’re having cocktails.
We’re having great conversation with them that night.
We’re hoping to bring them back to our place.
Have ourselves over to their place.
Something.

[12:40] [Phoebe] We left it open.
We said, hey, let’s get together tonight.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sounds good.

[12:45] [Unknown] We’ll text you.

[12:46] [Ed] And we’re…
Not an awkward moment at all at the pool.
Great, great conversation.
And of course, all of this buildup online with sexy pictures.
Yep.
They saw everything and we saw everything that they had.

[13:00] [Unknown] I mean, we sent them everything.

[13:03] [Ed] Yep.
All the dirty deeds.

[13:06] [Unknown] Well, I don’t send some photos.

[13:12] [Ed] I don’t know.
I sent a lot of pictures that time.

[13:14] [Phoebe] Oh, no.

[13:15] [Unknown] Oh, no.

[13:16] [Ed] Well, I was trying to hook the fish.
Pull it into the boat.

[13:22] [Unknown] Oh, gosh.
Anyway, that evening comes around.

[13:26] [Ed] We’re like, hey, we’re going to go to a show afterwards to…
You know, let’s get together.
We’ll give you a call when we get out of the show.
We call them nothing.
Crickets.
We run into them outside the show.

[13:40] [Phoebe] Yeah.

[13:41] [Ed] And…
They looked very awkward.
Like, deer in the headlights.
Yes.
Uh-oh.
Now…
We have to do something.

[13:51] [Unknown] We have to…
Right.
Commit.

[13:54] [Phoebe] They had…
Well, and they had another couple waiting.

[13:58] [Ed] Bump, bump, bump.
Yes.

[14:00] [Phoebe] So badly.
We got kicked down to second.
Someone got up and burst.
And so…
I’m looking at all this and I’m thinking, oh, oh my gosh.
They’re here with somebody else.
Oh, okay.
Well, awkward.
All right.
So good to see you.

[14:19] [Unknown] You know.

[14:20] [Phoebe] Right.
Hopefully we hear from you.

[14:22] [Unknown] Have a nice evening.

[14:23] [Ed] We head back to the room because that’s obviously a no-fly zone.
Now, I will say that if it had been us in that situation,
we would have been like, bring them to.

[14:33] [Phoebe] Right?
Oh my God.

[14:35] [Ed] The hell not.

[14:36] [Phoebe] Right?

[14:37] [Unknown] We are.
Sixsome.

[14:40] [Ed] So many more opportunities, options.
So much better.
Didn’t happen.
No.
We get home.
We’re like, well, that was a bust.
Yes.
It’s so bummed.
Put PJs on and we’ll write something on pay-per-view.

[14:53] [Unknown] Who knows?

[14:54] [Phoebe] Have our own good time.

[14:56] [Ed] 11, 11, 30.
We get a text from them saying, hey, we’re back.
Do you want to come over to our hotel place?

[15:07] [Unknown] We’re like, I don’t have any makeup on.

[15:11] [Ed] We have shut down for the night.
There’s like the restaurants closed.

[15:18] [Unknown] There’s no dining going on.

[15:22] [Ed] Didn’t happen.
After that, it pretty much nothing happened with that.
And it was unfortunate.
But this is a classic example of a lot of build-up can result in
nothing.

[15:41] [Unknown] Exactly.

[15:42] [Ed] They were hot and heavy all on board.
Everything would go until they were actually
asked to put it on the line.
Yep.

[15:52] [Phoebe] And then nothing.
Yep.
And I think a lot of that happens.
There’s a lot of back and forth sexting.
It’s fun.
It’s titillating.
It’s exciting.
It’s an adrenaline rush, all that stuff.
But when it comes down to follow through, a lot of people don’t.

[16:10] [Unknown] Oh my god.

[16:11] [Ed] I mean, we’d actually have to get naked and have sex with them.

[16:14] [Unknown] Yes.

[16:15] [Ed] That’s the point.
I know.

[16:20] [Unknown] As we said earlier, a little goes a long way.

[16:24] [Ed] How about start with something like, let’s meet for drinks and see what happens.
Exactly.

[16:30] [Phoebe] Because your time is precious.

[16:32] [Ed] Now, if you’re all about flirting online, if you’re all about having sexy conversations online,
that’s all you ever want it to be.
And you would just want a sexting, buddy.

[16:43] [Unknown] Bingo.
You’re all in.

[16:45] [Ed] That’s all good.
But if you actually want to participate with somebody, go meet them.

[16:52] [Unknown] Yeah.

[16:54] [Ed] Because virtually people are hot as heck.

[16:56] [Phoebe] All right, Ed.
Now we’re going to transition over to passive versus active communication.
All right.
Passive communication.
Mostly non-committal, lacking good follow-through.

[17:11] [Unknown] Even if you have good intentions, you may not know how to close the deal and communicate

[17:18] [Phoebe] what you want.
And we were a little like this in the beginning.
Yes.
As we were getting our feet wet, we didn’t know really how.

[17:26] [Ed] How do you ask for it?
How do you say it?

[17:28] [Phoebe] How do you say it?
How do you say it?
How do you say it?
How do you say it?

[17:32] [Unknown] How do you say it?
How do you say it?
How do you say it?

[17:35] [Ed] How do you say it?
And what’s on the table in terms of those kinds of communications?

[17:41] [Phoebe] Right.
And you’re asking to have sex with somebody else’s partner.
So you want to be very respectful, but you also want to be direct.
So there’s that delicate balance.
Right.
Flaky people, you want to talk about the two forms of flakes?

[17:56] [Ed] Yeah.
So everybody talks about flaky people.
And we’re going to kind of break it down a little bit so that it’s not such a generality.
So we think of flaky people in two categories.
First are people who lack follow through.
They can’t commit.
So the Vegas couple was an example of that, right?
They had the best intentions in the world, but when it came out,
they just couldn’t pull the trigger.
Couldn’t get there.
We find that a lot online where we’ll set up something.
We’ll have a conversation with somebody and go, hey,
let’s get together sometime.
Oh, yeah, that’d be great.

[18:36] [Unknown] Love the idea.

[18:43] [Ed] All right.
Can, how about a date?
Yeah, that’d be great.
Yeah.
Nothing ever gets off the ground.
Nothing launched.
Even with prompting of, we’re available.
The third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, 12th, 14th.

[19:03] [Unknown] Any hour of the night.

[19:06] [Ed] Call us.
We’ll be the midnight booty call.
Nothing.
They won’t, they just can’t get there.
Best intentions in the world.

[19:18] [Unknown] We don’t know because there is a passive communication.

[19:23] [Ed] There’s no active communication going on.

[19:25] [Unknown] We don’t know why is it that they’re too busy?

[19:29] [Ed] Is it that they’ve got distractions in their life?
They don’t put it on their calendar
so that they just don’t follow through.
Is it that they need a reminder or a note?
And they just keep forgetting.
Is it, they’re just scared and they just can’t do it.
Don’t know.
Hard to find out because it’s somebody else’s brain
and they’ve got their own issues.

[19:51] [Unknown] And you can’t read those minds.

[19:55] [Phoebe] Yeah, their own life, their own hobbies.
You don’t know their level of commitment.

[19:59] [Ed] Yeah, so it’s that unknown, not knowing why.

[20:03] [Unknown] Right.

[20:05] [Ed] Then there’s the second category.
And these are people who don’t know how to say
that they’re not interested.

[20:13] [Unknown] Now, if you’ve got an online profile

[20:17] [Ed] and people are contacting you,
etiquette states that you should reply to them
in some form or another.
I will freely admit I am not the best at that.
I apologize to anyone who’s listening.
But I make every effort that I can
to contact anybody who contacts us and say,
hey, we’re interested.
Hey, we’re not interested.
Just say it.
Yep, get it out there.

[20:42] [Unknown] Yes.

[20:43] [Ed] We really believe that most people
are afraid of confrontation.
I think this is biological.
You have this fear of hurting other people’s feelings.
And that’s a really good fear to have.
If you weren’t, you’d be a sociopath

[20:59] [Unknown] and we should all be worried.

[21:02] [Ed] Go back to Craig’s list.
Show up at somebody’s house randomly.
Anyway.
Because people are afraid of confrontation,
they don’t want to say, I don’t know how to tell you this,
but your husband scares me and he looks weird.
And I’m really not interested in having sex with him.
You wouldn’t say that, but that’s what you’re thinking.
So how do you translate those thoughts

[21:27] [Unknown] into actual words of, thank you very much,

[21:31] [Ed] but we’re going to pass.
Here are some examples of some of the passive responses
that you might get.
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[22:39] [Unknown] Thanks for listening.
You may get a party that avoids or dances

[22:50] [Phoebe] around the question by just not answering.

[22:54] [Unknown] For example, I got this text last week.

[22:59] [Phoebe] The woman says,
hello, just wanted to reach out and say hi.

[23:02] [Unknown] Hope all is well with you.

[23:05] [Phoebe] I responded.
Hey there, so good to hear from you.
Let’s get together.
Dinner at our place.
Still pescatarian.
Her response.
Nope.
I eat anything now.

[23:16] [Unknown] Great memory though.
Jaw drop.

[23:23] [Phoebe] But what about that invite to dinner at our place?
I feel like I was specific enough.
I asked the question dinner at our place
and then followed it through with
is your preference still pescatarian?

[23:39] [Ed] We got the meal planned.
We’ve got the location.
There’s no commitment on your part except for driving
your happy ass over here and eating food
that we were going to cook.

[23:48] [Phoebe] I mean, maybe I should have said dinner at our place
five o’clock this Friday.

[23:53] [Ed] We tried that.
That also sometimes does work.

[23:56] [Phoebe] Does it work?
I try to leave it a little open.

[23:59] [Unknown] You know, you start with a level seven or eight commitment

[24:05] [Phoebe] and then you kind of lock it in to the date and time
which is tips to the level nine and ten of your honor off.

[24:13] [Ed] You’re on.
Oh my gosh.
Here’s a date.

[24:15] [Unknown] Here’s a time.

[24:17] [Ed] Bring your happy ass over.

[24:18] [Phoebe] Yep.

[24:19] [Unknown] Didn’t happen.
Didn’t happen.
Sample number two.

[24:23] [Ed] Excuses instead of being upfront.
Now, it’s great.
You don’t know these people.
You can’t see it into their lives.
You don’t have a camera installed in their house
to know whether they’re actually telling the truth or not
or whether they are having a problem or not.

[24:38] [Phoebe] But we could tap into their Alexa.

[24:41] [Ed] Maybe.
She’s always listening.
You’ll get excuses about sick kids,
some type of family of emergency or event.
Oh, we’ve got this vanilla thing going on that weekend
or something work related.
Oh, I’ve got to work the night shift.

[25:01] [Unknown] Right.

[25:02] [Ed] And the worst part about that is
you don’t know whether they’re giving you a real reason

[25:06] [Unknown] or if they’re just giving you a bullshit reason.

[25:10] [Phoebe] Right.

[25:11] [Unknown] Yeah.

[25:12] [Ed] And you don’t know and you’ll never know.

[25:14] [Unknown] Nope.
But you do know that they’re not at your house

[25:19] [Ed] eating your food and having a nice conversation
hopefully leading to something else.
That you do know because they’re not there.

[25:28] [Unknown] And there you have it.

[25:30] [Phoebe] Poor Ed.
We really wanted to have barbecue.
And now we have all this food that we have to eat.

[25:37] [Ed] Oh, well, I like meat.
I’ll figure something out.

[25:42] [Unknown] I like meat.

[25:44] [Ed] Yes, she does.
The last example that I’ll give is
where you have a couple who’s doing the online thing,
which is.

[25:56] [Phoebe] Yeah, or you’ve met them in person maybe.

[25:59] [Ed] Met them in person and the gentleman
is actually fucked your wife.
That kind of met them in person.
And you get a contact afterwards.
They like you.
They say they’re a great chemistry
that we’d get along great.
We say reach out to you periodically.

[26:21] [Unknown] Yeah.

[26:22] [Ed] All signs are green.
And when you give them a date and a time

[26:27] [Unknown] and you say, perfect.
I’ll be there with condoms.
Nothing.

[26:34] [Ed] Once again, see previous example.
I got to work.
It’s a late shift.
Something’s going on.
Oh, it turns out it’s a family barbecue.
Whatever.

[26:44] [Unknown] Yeah.

[26:46] [Ed] What’s really funny about that is
you’re getting all the green lights.

[26:54] [Unknown] All the green lights.
And still nothing is happening.

[27:00] [Ed] That seems to be a very passive way of saying
someone’s not interested.
Somebody’s not on board.
Something’s not checking out with this story
that you’re telling us.
So it’s not all green lights.

[27:16] [Unknown] Right.

[27:17] [Phoebe] There’s this internal tipping point
that you start to get a sense of
what’s a valid excuse and what’s a polite excuse.
And I wish they would have just politely said
20 texts ago that thank you.
They’re not interested.
But no, thank you rather than dragging and leading you on.

[27:41] [Ed] Right.
Because honestly, we like them.
Yeah.
We think both of them are very attractive.
And right, I’d love to have sex with them.
But it’s never going to happen.
And so the hard part is you keep getting these little nibbles
and you keep thinking it’s going to happen.
And then nah, ain’t going to happen.

[28:03] [Unknown] Nope.

[28:03] [Ed] So we’ve gotten to a point where we have a threshold
where we just go after three or four of these attempts.
We keep putting out dates.

[28:13] [Phoebe] It’s like the game of tennis.
Do you serve the ball?
It comes back.
You serve it back with the higher level of commitment.

[28:21] [Ed] It doesn’t come back.
You just don’t serve in the ball.
It’s exactly because you’re the only person
who’s on the tennis court at this point.
So there’s no game to be had.

[28:31] [Phoebe] Hold in your balls.

[28:33] [Ed] Yeah, there you are.
Stand on the tennis court.
Hold in your balls.

[28:38] [Unknown] Such a good metaphor.

[28:41] [Phoebe] Ghosting.
Ghosting is another form of passive communication.
This is when, you know, everyone’s heard of this.
This is when you’re breaking off
or stopping all communication.
You’re giving no signs at all that you’re no longer interested.

[28:59] [Unknown] You just stop.

[29:02] [Phoebe] Maybe you you block someone, which is extreme.
That’s never happened to us.

[29:06] [Unknown] Right.

[29:07] [Phoebe] Or some people will leave a chat or a group chat
just so you know that’s not always ghosting.
Sometimes I will leave a chat
because I’m clearing up my chats because they get.

[29:17] [Ed] Yeah, I haven’t had a chat in six months.
Yeah, empty out.

[29:20] [Phoebe] I’m just doing some house cleaning.
Doesn’t nothing personal.

[29:23] [Ed] We did that after the cruise.
We left all the cruise chats because cruise is over.

[29:28] [Phoebe] Cruises up.

[29:30] [Ed] That’s great.
But I’m not going to see it until you get back on a boat.

[29:34] [Unknown] Right.

[29:35] [Ed] There’s a level of ghosting that happens.
I think in any kind of relationship or social media.
Be careful with the type of passive communication
that you choose to take.
Because you may be seeing this person at an event.
You may be seeing them in the social circles.
Right.

[29:54] [Unknown] And you know, act polite, be a good citizen

[29:58] [Ed] and you know, do the right thing.

[30:00] [Phoebe] Or socially, you know.

[30:03] [Ed] Yeah, be socially appropriate.
Follow etiquette, if you will.
Exactly.

[30:07] [Unknown] All right, active.

[30:10] [Phoebe] Active communication requires a good level of confidence.
You know, if you, if you don’t have a good level of confidence or,
or maybe it’s just uncomfortable to you because it’s not familiar,

[30:22] [Unknown] just fake it.

[30:23] [Phoebe] What would you want to hear?
The more comfort in the hobby also helps.

[30:31] [Unknown] But just, you know, kind of pretend if you don’t know.

[30:37] [Ed] Yeah, fake it till you make it.
And we experienced that firsthand when we got into the lifestyle

[30:44] [Guest] where we were not social butterflies, introverts,

[30:49] [Ed] sitting on the sidelines, watching things happen.
And we made a conscious effort to kind of get out of that pattern.
Well, communication works the same way.
Fake it till you make it.
Make the commitment to follow through on those emails.
Make the commitment to respond to people when they ask you for something.

[31:07] [Unknown] And as kind of this active part kicks in,
and that’s being honest with what’s going on.

[31:18] [Ed] You’ve got to be honest with yourself about knowing what you want and what you need.
And then you’ve got to be able to communicate that to the other party.
Right.
So if you’re not interested in them, don’t string them out.
One, you’re wasting their time and you’re wasting your time
and you’re giving yourself an aneurysm trying to worry about
how you’re going to keep stringing them along and telling them a story
and being nice, but just being polite instead of just going,
we really appreciate your interest, but we’re not interested.

[31:53] [Phoebe] Right.

[31:54] [Ed] It’s not going to happen.

[31:55] [Phoebe] And hopefully you’ve had enough communication with your partner
and discussed it enough where you’re clear on what what you want
and where your boundaries are so that you are able to communicate that.

[32:12] [Guest] Here’s why we sail on Virgin.
It’s adults only.
No kids screaming at breakfast, no family buffet lines,

[32:22] [Unknown] just champagne at noon, late night pool parties,

[32:26] [Guest] and people who actually want to be there.

[32:29] [Unknown] The vibe?

[32:31] [Guest] Think boutique hotel that happens to float.
Tattoo parlors, drag brunch, restaurants you’d actually pay for on land.
Plus when you’re looking to connect with other couples who know how to have fun,
let’s just say Virgin attracts a very specific type of adventurous.

[32:50] [Unknown] No wonder bread cruisers here, just your people.

[32:57] [Ed] Absolutely.
And have a conversation with your partner really get on the same page with it
and then decide whether you’re going to cut it off or continue.
Right.

[33:05] [Unknown] So there you go.

[33:07] [Phoebe] Active communication also will develop good relationships at last.
You you genuinely will find people that are they’re busy.
They’ve got other hobbies.
You stay in good active communication and you know,
maybe you end up seeing them a couple times a year,
but you want to see them 12 times a year.

[33:30] [Ed] You got a water to that.
Yeah, otherwise it’s not going to grow.

[33:33] [Phoebe] You see them once a year at the New Year’s Eve event.
That’s the only event that they do every year.
But you get to see them every year, right?

[33:41] [Ed] And you’ve you’ve established that relationship.
You’ve given them a reason to keep coming back.

[33:48] [Phoebe] Exactly.
Don’t burn any bridges.

[33:51] [Unknown] So follow through.

[33:53] [Ed] This is the important part with this active communication.

[33:57] [Unknown] And that is, well, you either like them or you don’t.

[34:04] [Ed] More often than not, you’re not going to be attracted to the other couple.
It just works like that.
You walk down the street.
You’re not attracted to everybody.

[34:13] [Unknown] You’re attracted to a select few groups of people.

[34:17] [Ed] Well, lifestyles no different.
So you have to get good at letting people down.
It’s uncomfortable.

[34:27] [Unknown] It’s a necessity.

[34:30] [Ed] You’ve got to be able to say,
hey, we’re just not interested, but thank you.
Right.

[34:37] [Unknown] So here’s a strategy.

[34:40] [Ed] There’s a particular technique for doing this.
And it helps to kind of think through it
from a strategic standpoint.

[34:50] [Unknown] Here you go.

[34:51] [Ed] First, acknowledge the offer.
Clearly decline or counteroffer.

[35:01] [Unknown] So here’s some examples.
Acknowledge.

[35:05] [Phoebe] You might say something like,
thank you so much for asking.
We are very flattered.
Or thank you for thinking of us.

[35:14] [Unknown] Right.

[35:15] [Ed] We’ve been contacted by couples who are kind of outside of our normal range of attraction.
And it’s flattering to think that they think we’re hot,
but it doesn’t mean that we want to reciprocate that.
So we can appreciate that they think we’re hot, which is cool.

[35:34] [Unknown] So acknowledge that.

[35:37] [Ed] But the next step is to decline.

[35:41] [Phoebe] You could say, we’re not really feeling a connection,
but we’re happy to have met you.
Or we’re not feeling like playing,
but we’re happy to have met you.

[35:54] [Ed] And if you’re feeling like leaving it open-ended,

[35:56] [Unknown] there are times where you’re not feeling it tonight,

[36:00] [Ed] but maybe the next time you see them,
you can even change that a little bit and say,
we’re not feeling a connection at this time,
which kind of gives a little hope.

[36:12] [Unknown] Exactly.

[36:13] [Ed] Because as we’ve said before, sex is fluid and attraction is fluid.
And who knows?
Maybe the next time you see them,
maybe you’re having an off night,

[36:22] [Unknown] and you’re just not feeling it tonight,
but you might next time.

[36:26] [Phoebe] Yeah.

[36:27] [Unknown] Or maybe you’re, as a woman,
you’ve got some, maybe you’re on your period.

[36:33] [Phoebe] I’m just going to say it.
Maybe you have a yeast infection.
You’ve got something going on.
And you don’t want to broadcast that in a text.
But stuff like that happens.
And it’s just not very sexy to say.

[36:48] [Unknown] And so you want to be a little smooth about it.

[36:53] [Ed] Exactly.
So.
Now, you don’t always have to outright decline.
So for example, maybe someone was offering
a full-on gang bang with 20 people in a room.

[37:07] [Unknown] Maybe that’s not your thing.

[37:10] [Ed] Hey, you know, to use their own.
But you could counter-offer.
So maybe you’re not in for the full Monty,
but you’ll take a part of it.
So here’s another example.
We don’t do full swap,
but we’re open to soft swap.
And variations on that.
It’s okay to counter-offer and negotiate.

[37:33] [Unknown] This is your evening, too.

[37:36] [Ed] And you don’t necessarily have to go along
with somebody else’s plan.
You can kind of suggest a different plan.
I want to play a mini golf.

[37:44] [Unknown] I’d rather go back to our place.

[37:47] [Phoebe] Be prepared for disappointment.
But being honest is key.
For example, we were soft swap in our profile
and in our playstyle for a while.
And we had gotten invited to a party near us.
Right.
Up the hill.
And we said, yes, we’d love to come.
Thank you so much.
Uh, then we get this email.

[38:14] [Unknown] Oh, sorry.

[38:16] [Phoebe] We didn’t read your profile.
This is only for full swap people.

[38:20] [Unknown] We were so bummed.

[38:22] [Phoebe] We’re like, what?
We want to go to the party.
What did I go to the party?
This was, I think, the very first house party
that we ever got invited to.
And we’re like, yes, we’re in.
We’ve got the secret passcode.
We’re going to figure this all out.
And didn’t happen.

[38:41] [Ed] You know, nothing.

[38:42] [Unknown] Yeah.

[38:43] [Phoebe] Be honest.
But, you know, be prepared for some disappointment.

[38:47] [Ed] And the most important thing.
So if you think about that party example,
if we had been soft swap and had been a bit timid

[38:54] [Unknown] and we’ve been invited to this full on Roman orgy,

[38:58] [Ed] who knows what they were doing up there,
we may have been a little bit overwhelmed
and kind of out of our depth,
and it wouldn’t have been comfortable for everybody.

[39:06] [Phoebe] Right, right.

[39:07] [Ed] So it is important to set those boundaries
and to clearly communicate them so that no one
is feeling uncomfortable.
It’s much better just be upfront about it
and not have to drag this thing out.
As the lie gets bigger,
it gets harder to maintain.
So, don’t lie, just be honest.
It’s simple.
Yes.
My personal favorite, what I like the most,
closing the deal.

[39:38] [Phoebe] Being direct and take those opportunities
when they are presented to you.

[39:45] [Unknown] You’re at an event,

[39:47] [Ed] there’s a hot couple across the room,
get up, walk over there,
and have a conversation with them.

[39:53] [Unknown] If you don’t start the conversation,

[39:56] [Ed] you’re certainly not going to finish the conversation.
So do it.

[40:02] [Phoebe] As uncomfortable as it might be,
just fake it till you make it.

[40:06] [Ed] And what’s more uncomfortable,
going back to your room alone and sad
that you didn’t talk to them,
or who knows?
Maybe you went home with them, right?
You never know until you try.
Exactly.
That doubt of not knowing whether it was possible
will you will take that to the grave,

[40:27] [Unknown] just telling you.

[40:29] [Ed] And here’s another really key part
about closing the deal.
So have a conversation with those people.

[40:37] [Unknown] And then when you’ve theoretically closed the deal,

[40:41] [Ed] unless you’re all in the same room
and your clothes are off,
the deal is not done.
You have not closed.
Don’t let them get away.
So what does that mean?
Hey, we’re going to go back to our room
and change our clothes,
or we’re going to go back to our room and do something.

[41:01] [Unknown] That is an opportunity for them to reconsider,

[41:05] [Ed] to change their mind, to get distracted,
to do something different,
to maybe get tired and decide,
oh, you know, my feet really hurt
because these crazy high heels,
not me personally.

[41:18] [Unknown] Great. Can we come with you?

[41:20] [Ed] Exactly.
So follow them, stick with them,
take them where you want to go with them.
I’m not saying chloroform is involved
or anything in that caliber.
I’m simply saying be persistent
and in a sense,
don’t let them change their mind.

[41:39] [Phoebe] Because a lot of this is very spontaneous.
It’s very flirtatious.
You’re in the moment.
And these things aren’t really planned or coordinated.

[41:53] [Unknown] Again, the fluidity of it.

[41:57] [Phoebe] You’re in the moment.
You’re feeling good.
It’s flirty.
Yeah, your little turned on.
That day, your hormones happen to be high
and you’re like extra horny.
It’s the moment.
And as soon as you lose the moment,
it’s like anything, right?
You’re kissing on the couch.
You’re all hot and heavy.
And you go to the bedroom
and it’s like bright, fluorescent lights.
Wait, what? The moment’s gone.
Why is it so…

[42:22] [Ed] Oh, you get a text from your kids at the event
and then you’re dealing with that stuff, right?
And it just crashes the whole thing.

[42:30] [Unknown] So…

[42:31] [Phoebe] This is what we mean by…

[42:33] [Ed] Sees the moment.

[42:34] [Phoebe] Yeah.

[42:35] [Ed] Go for it.

[42:36] [Unknown] Yeah.

[42:37] [Ed] Obviously they’re interested.
And we’re not talking about coursing them or…

[42:40] [Phoebe] Right, right, right.

[42:41] [Ed] Anything along those lines.
But it’s a simple thing of…
If you give people opportunity to be distracted by something else,
by life, then it’s going to happen.
And we had that happen on the cruise a couple of times
and we’ve had that happen at other events.
And it’s…
You know, you get a little distance from it
and they get distracted by something else.
Yeah.
Some other couple is going to go in with them.
Right.

[43:04] [Unknown] Ooh, squirrel.

[43:05] [Ed] We…
They’re in the mood
and some other couple was a little bit more assertive
than you were.
And guess what?
Bingo, bingo, bongo, they’re out.

[43:12] [Unknown] Yeah.

[43:13] [Ed] You’re out.
So here’s some examples of how to close the deal.

[43:18] [Unknown] Walk up to that couple.

[43:20] [Ed] That really hot couple across the room.
And you say…
We think you’re both very attractive
and enjoyed our brief conversation that we’ve had with you.
And we’d like to take this to the next level.
Would you like to come back to our place?

[43:36] [Unknown] Right?

[43:40] [Phoebe] Yeah.

[43:41] [Unknown] Or you could say…

[43:43] [Phoebe] Seems like we have great chemistry
and we’re thinking about going to the playroom.
Would you like to join us?

[43:51] [Ed] For those people who are interested in the playroom
or who like the playroom.

[43:55] [Unknown] Or they don’t see this as an opportunity

[43:57] [Ed] for the other couple to counteroff
or another couple.
We don’t like playing in the playroom,
but we have a room here at the hotel too.

[44:04] [Guest] But boom.

[44:05] [Ed] You’re still in.
You’ve made the move.
See?
Right?
Great.
We’ll follow you.
People are afraid of making that first step.
The worst part about dating is putting yourself out there.
So if you do that, you’ve actually alleviated the burden
from the other couple.
They don’t have to do that.
It’s like, I don’t know.
They might like us.
They might not.
It’s very nervous.
Just be the not nervous person.
Be the assertive one.
And you’re actually helping them.
So think of this as a public service.
You’re helping that poor couple
from having to go through the stress
of approaching somebody else.

[44:47] [Unknown] You do it first.
Oh my god.

[44:53] [Guest] You’re closing.

[44:54] [Ed] Be authentic.
And as clear as you can be with good follow-through.
Decide how you want to interact with other people
and take an active approach in your communication.
Keep in mind you never know who you will run into
or what value they may bring to your life.
So treat those relationships.
However brief as gems.
Thanks for coming to class.

[45:22] [Phoebe] Before you turn off our podcast to take care
of all the vanilla things pulling you away,
please reach out and give us a review.
I am the first to admit that it is much easier
to give a five-star rating, which we appreciate.
But if you could take 43 seconds to type a review,
we would love it.
If you want to share a personal story,
ask us questions or share your comments.
Please contact us at SwingerUniversity at gmail.com
or tweet us at SwingerUPodcast.

[45:55] [Unknown] Oh, one last thing before you go.

[46:21] [Ed] If this episode helped you in any way,
the single best thing you can do to support the show
is leaving a rating and review.
It takes 60 seconds and helps new people find us
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And we’ve made it easy.
Visit SwingerUniversity.com forward slash review.
All the instructions are there.
Thank you for being part of this community.
We’ll see you again soon.