Titillating & Candid Confession with Strictly Anonymous

This was kind of our MO for many years

where we would kind of

just kick the party off.

So we’d go in, we’re a

little bit of exhibitionists.

Just a little bit.

I mean, that’s why we do

a podcast in some ways.

Welcome to Swinger

University with Ed and Phoebe.

Hi Ed and Phoebe.

Welcome to the

Strictly Anonymous podcast.

You guys are from a podcast

called Swinger University.

Yes, yes.

I have to costume something.

My Instagram, I feel like I used your

logo once as a picture.

And what I wanted to

know, I went back looking.

I’m like, “Oh yeah, I did.”

I wanted to know, did you guys get that

logo made because A,

it’s good, and B, it does

kind of look like Phoebe.

Is that like your own creation?

Someone made that for you guys?

Yeah, I’m actually a graphic designer.

Oh, you are?

I have worked in the software industry

for many years, but

yeah, traditionally an art

background.

So you made your logo.

I like it.

I’m going to use it for your episode.

It’s great, but you guys have a pocket.

So what’s interesting about you guys,

we’re going to get your

whole backstory because

you guys met and were

dating, then you started swinging.

You got married.

You eventually recently, a couple of

years ago, started a

podcast about swinging and

you were anonymous like I was, but

recently you came out,

which I feel like is such a

great thing.

I know that there’s a backstory to that.

So why don’t we start off you giving your

little shout outs to

your podcast, whatever

else you have, and then we’ll get your

story and then you can

give your shout outs at the

end.

And I will include all the links to all

your stuff in my description.

Perfect.

Yeah, but you have a YouTube channel.

What’s your deal?

Ed, do you want to go?

Sure.

I’m going to rip

through some of this stuff.

So we, we started our podcast in May of

2019 and we’ll get into

some of the details about

why we started it and whatnot.

But we’ve been pushing our content up to

our podcast for a number of years.

And then just this October, we decided to

show our faces on YouTube.

And so we have a YouTube channel now and

we’re really stepping

up production on the

YouTube platform to make ourselves a

little bit more approachable.

And I think that was one of the big

things with our faces.

In addition to becoming more visible,

we’re also doing

OnlyFans accounts now too, which

has been exciting and intimidating and a

whole bunch of other

stuff that comes with that.

Right.

Right.

Well, we’ll get into that.

It’s going to be a part of your journey

and your story eventually.

Right.

It comes up that you do the OnlyFans.

But let’s go back to like

when you guys first met.

Now, are we talking 30 years ago and

you’ve been together that long?

Are we talking that maybe you guys met

after you had other marriages?

I mean, because I know that you did it.

You started swinging

when you were dating.

Correct?

Correct.

Yeah.

Both been married,

long-term relationships.

I was, this is my third marriage.

I was in a sexless marriage right before

this marriage to Ed.

And I decided that’s

never going to happen again.

And I wanted better sexual experiences.

So I started dating and fucking around

and having a great time.

You know, I was in my 40s and free.

And so I started having some amazing

experiences in my 40s.

And I met Ed and we started dating and I

thought, wow, this guy

really is, I don’t know, I

really like this one.

But I didn’t want to give up

some of that sexual freedom.

So he started listening to

a podcast called Sex is Fun.

And there was a podcast on swinging.

And so he talked to me about it and I

said, oh, you know,

I’ve actually thought about

that.

His eyebrow goes up and

he’s like, oh, really?

So that started the conversation.

And then what happened from that?

I’m a researcher.

So I decided, well, I

need to know more about this.

Like, let’s get into this.

This sounds interesting.

And so I consumed my days just listening

to podcasts at work,

on the way home, on the

way to work, just trying to gather as

much information as possible.

And how long were you

dating at this point?

Do you remember?

Like, was it very early on?

Was it a year into the relationship?

No, it was pretty early.

So we’d started dating in, I

want to say, February of 2012.

And we started

swinging probably six months.

It’s got to be six months.

It was within the first

year that we were dating.

Yeah.

Terrifying.

Right?

Terrifying.

Yeah, but I think in the better way to

go, I think it’s a lot

harder to pull out a card

like that when you’ve been with someone

for a long time, if

it’s like a secret desire

or something.

Whereas if you just, when you’re starting

out a relationship, I

mean, it doesn’t seem

the first date, but I think, you know,

early on is a little

bit easier in a weird way.

You would think it’s the opposite, but

because, you know, you

don’t know each other.

So you might as well put on the table now

then if you pull

something out after 10 years,

someone might look at you

like, who the fuck are you?

You know, I’ve been

with you for 10 years.

I never knew that you wanted to be a

swinger, blah, blah, blah.

So I, you know, I think that there’s

definite pros to bringing

it up earlier rather than

later, at least being open about what

you’re into sexually.

I’m assuming, Phoebe, it’s because you

came from that place of like no sex.

What about you, Ed?

Have you ever done anything

that wasn’t vanilla before?

Well, not really.

And, and ironically, I didn’t lose my

virginity until I was in my 20s.

So I got into college.

Wait a second.

How old, 21 or 27?

Oh, early 20.

So I was probably 19 or 20

when I lost my virginity.

So but I went all through high school

with dating, but no sex.

Not me.

I was a slut.

I didn’t even have a

blue job until college.

Really?

You got laid before you got a blue job?

Well, I remember my first sexual

experience in college was a blow job.

And it was in the dorms.

And you know, the phrase, there’s no such

thing as a bad blow job.

Yeah, it wasn’t the best blow job.

It was pretty bad.

But it was my first experience.

So I enjoyed it.

Right.

That’s hilarious.

Yeah.

So you were very vanilla too.

And now Phoebe said she threw in there.

I don’t know if you’ve heard of that.

She was always slutty.

And I assume because I was in my 40s at

one time that Phoebe,

when you get out of that

sexless marriage and you’re in your 40s,

that’s when women are the horniest.

Right.

So didn’t you feel like your sex drive

went out the window or

like it just ramped up.

And so here you are newly single.

You had no sex and now you’re hornier

than you’ve ever been.

And you know, so when you met Ed, you

said when he brought it up

that you had been thinking

about it.

Was that something that you

had wanted to do previously?

Well, yes.

Prior to Ed, in between my marriages, I

had been dating a man

that was 30 years older

than me.

And I thought, well, guy, you know, he

grew up in that time when

swinging was really popular.

So I knew about swinging, but I knew it

in the like the movie

sense, you know, the keys

in the bowl, everyone just shows up at

the house and you have

this massive orgy, which

always sounded really great to me, which

is not how it goes down.

But I would love it.

And I thought I brought it up to him

thinking, oh, he’s going to be all in.

And he wasn’t.

And I was so disappointed.

So I kind of just had this, you know,

this on the back burner.

And when Ed brought it up, I was like,

ooh, this might be my opportunity.

Yeah, maybe that’s it.

Yeah.

And then you realize, oh,

this is why I like this guy.

He was the real right one.

He really was the right one.

So what how did your first experience go?

And did you let me

ask you this real quick?

Like, did you have like, did you do a lot

of talking about it

beforehand and have any

kinds of rules or boundaries set in place

before you went to

that first swingers party

or club?

Oh, yes.

Yes.

We talked about it a lot.

And we had some rules.

I think we may have even had the no

kissing rule in the

beginning because it felt too

intimate to me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Our rules were fairly basic because we

didn’t know what we

didn’t know at the time.

And even though we’d been listening to a

ton of podcasts, well,

we were kind of we were

in that analysis paralysis phase where we

had so much

information swimming around in

our heads that the reality of what it was

going to be like just

seemed so intangible.

Like there was no way we were going to

connect those things.

And finally, we just decided to pull the

trigger and go to an event.

But we were like, OK, for this event,

we’re just watching.

We’re just going to watch.

We’re going to go observe.

It’s like, you know, going to a

performance, we’re going to see the

theater, we’re going

to see what happens and

then we’ll process it.

So we did.

And we ended up at a local party.

They used to run them in

the back of Craigslist.

They don’t do that anymore.

And we were we were doing our research on

you and read about or

listened to you going

to Craigslist and kind of

getting people to come in.

And we were like, gosh, that’s a great

idea if only they hadn’t shut that down.

So it was the best.

I cast my show for years.

Thank God when it went down, I was up and

running enough that

people were just emailing

me and I don’t have

to go looking anymore.

But you probably the first couple of

years I worked fucking

Craigslist so bad that I

had like the app and I had every video

and I have to change my IP address.

You know, I was like, what I found.

Craigslist was great back in the day.

So you found your first party there.

Yeah, found her first

party on Craigslist.

And it was interesting.

It was a party called

the share your wife party.

So we were a little

intimidated by that title.

We were like, oh, God, this is going to

be this could be a total disaster.

We have no idea what’s

actually going to happen.

So we showed up and we kind of stood in

the corner for probably

the first half hour, 20

minutes.

And we met another

couple there who seemed safe.

So we huddled together and kind of

commiserated and introduced ourselves.

They’d been swinging a while ago and had

kind of been out of it for a while.

So they kind of gave us a

little bit of their backstory.

And to describe the room, basically, it

was like a junior high

dance, but with really

bad porn playing on the TV.

Everybody was kind of

just sitting around.

It was dark.

It was weird, very awkward.

Nobody was engaging with each other.

And then all of a sudden, somebody burst

through the front door.

Oh, it was like 20 bucks to get in.

So it was like super easy to get in.

And there were a lot of single males.

So all of a sudden door bursts open,

couple comes in and the

woman basically just starts

stripping her clothes off and going

upstairs to the loft.

We knew at that point, we’re like, oh, we

think the party is going to get started.

So we’re like, let’s follow them.

We get up there.

She’s naked.

They’re in the bed.

They’re having sex.

There’s a whole ring

of guys around the bed.

They’re all jerking off.

There’s an older woman who’s probably in

her seventies, easily in her seventies.

She was a kind of like

a hot wife situation.

So her husband was in the background

watching and college guy

after college guy after military

guy was lining up and

having sex with grandma.

So this was a guilt gang thing.

It was a seven year old woman was the one

that was like, yes, a girl.

Well no, there was a second girl.

So there was like a

threesome on the bed and grandma.

And they were, everybody was having fun.

We were riveted, just

fascinated watching this whole thing.

The sounds, the smells

like you could smell sex.

And we were really

close to everybody, right?

Because almost everybody in the party was

piled around the bed watching.

And we eventually got kind of crammed

into a corner and there’s

a leg kind of like moving

right in front of us, you know, the kind

of doggy style or on

her back and the leg was

just flying around.

And Phoebe was terrified that we were

just going to get sucked onto the bed.

And so we were like holding each other,

watching all of this,

like super excited, but also

very nervous all at the same time.

So like emotions, adrenaline, everything

was going like all at once.

We literally sat in the car afterwards

for about 20 minutes in

silence, just trying to

process everything that happened.

Oh my God.

I thought maybe you were going to say you

went into the car and

then you just like couldn’t

keep your hands on each other.

That sucks.

I mean, were you super

charged up in horny from it?

Or was it almost too much information?

We were and I think we

we went home and had sex.

We didn’t have sex in the car, but yeah,

definitely a little bit of

both, like really horny from

from having seen all of this stuff, but

also like just overwhelmed.

Yeah, I’ve never seen

live sex other than porn.

And the porn I have seen is

was was gross or not interesting.

And this was just I

couldn’t believe my eyes.

It was phenomenal.

I was instantly turned

on by it and needed more.

And then did you continue to go to that

party or did you start

going to clubs or both?

No, that was the first and last of those

parties that we went to.

The next one we went to was from a local

venue allures and they had a glow party.

And that was our probably our first

actual sexual contact with other couples.

And one of the kind of the high bars that

got set for many

years to come in terms of

experiences, just just an amazing night.

So Phoebe was on her period.

We knew not much was going

to happen because of that.

And nobody was playing in the playroom.

So we and this was kind of our M.O.

for many years where we would kind of

just kick the party off.

So we’d go in for a

little bit of exhibitionists.

Just a little bit.

I mean, that’s why we do a

podcast and some reasons.

Yeah, but that’s funny that you became

that person right out of the get go.

The people that start the party.

Yeah. And I think it was mostly because

we didn’t find a lot of people we were

attracted to in a lifestyle at that time.

Interesting.

Okay. The demographic

was much older than us.

And we hadn’t we hadn’t gotten

comfortable playing kind of outside of

our particular group.

And you spend the money and

you take the time to get ready.

I mean, this took hours, you know, to put

myself together and you get there and I’m

like, I want to have a good time.

Right. So, you know, I’m

going to have a good time.

Yeah. Yeah. It’s a sex party.

Let’s see some sex.

So we got on the bed.

We were playing next thing you know,

there’s another woman who

wants to play with Phoebe’s

breasts. Then there’s a couple across the

room that’s given us

the eyes and the come

hither fingers.

All of a sudden we we have this

realization that there’s

eight couples and we’re all

doing like oral sex around in this circle

all at the same time.

Wow.

It was amazing and like

almost no verbal communication.

It was all kind of eye

contact and nonverbal consent.

Amazing. Just

absolutely an amazing experience.

Yeah. And was that all like with each

other just within like

you with her or were you

guys all swapping and stuff like that?

We swapped I think

with two other couples.

It wasn’t you know, everybody didn’t swap

with everybody else.

Of course. But there was you guys.

This was your first time though that you

guys were getting down with other people

besides each other.

Yeah. Yeah.

It was that puppy pile situation on the

bed, which I really, really love.

Yeah. The woman that we were interacting

with, we were mostly interested in her.

She was she was super cute.

Our nickname for her was Mary Ann for

many years because she

was kind of like Mary Ann

from Gilligan’s Island.

Oh yeah.

Just super cute.

Never saw them again.

I know.

It’s one of those unfortunate things that

happens in Swinging

where you meet a couple

once and you probably

never see them again.

It’s true.

Then this was now we had now, Stevie,

were you down to get

with women were at like what

do you like?

How do you label your yourself sexually?

Are you into women, Stevie?

And what about you?

And are you open or are you just like

strictly with women yourself?

I was straight at that time.

That’s how I labeled myself.

And I found a lot of frustration in the

lifestyle with all the

definitions of a being

by, by from the waist up, selectively by.

I mean, the list goes on and on.

And at one point in our journey, I was

having a sexual

identity crisis because I found

like I had to reassess where I was with

my sexuality and I didn’t want to.

And Ed kept saying, well, you love

kissing women and you like touching them.

You must be by.

And I’m like, I’m not by.

And I didn’t want the label.

And it took several years to

to just go, OK, fine, whatever.

What the fuck?

I’m by, you know, but right.

And it really honestly took that one

person telling me this was a woman.

She goes, well, you know, when you’re

when you’re kissing

other men and you’re with

other men, you know, looking at other

men, you don’t like all men.

Do you? And I go, no.

She was like, well, it’s no different

with women just

because you like one woman

doesn’t mean you’re you like all women.

And just because you’re you want to label

yourself by doesn’t

mean you love all women

and want to have sex with all women.

It’s the same thing

with men is with women.

And it took some of the pressure off

because I didn’t understand that.

Right.

And so I just started just experimenting

mostly with kissing and soft swap.

And gosh, we are what, 11

years into the journey now.

And I’ve and I’ve and I think I’ve had my

my third oral

experience of going down on a

woman in the last.

This was two months ago.

Yeah. Was the last.

I mean, usually after all this time.

Yes, because, you know, I’m awkward, you

know, I’m I’m with I

know what I know how to

handle a penis.

I know what to do with a penis.

Right. I don’t know

what to do with a vagina.

I don’t know. I don’t

know what a woman likes.

Eleven years.

It was just till recently that you were

like, oh, I like this.

It’s right here. I’m going to do it.

And I fucking love it.

And all this time you’ve been passing it

up for the past 11 years.

Yeah. Yeah.

Interesting.

A lot of a lot of kissing and breast play

and kind of fondling and touching.

Women are very soft and

it’s very nice to touch them.

But yeah, the oral thing for

Phoebe’s been pretty recent.

Yeah. And it’s mostly just me feeling

awkward and not knowing

what to do and feeling

a little self-conscious.

I mean, if I had I’ve had women go down

on me and it was amazing.

So I was like, wow,

women are great at oral.

So so because I had had that first, I

thought, oh, God, I

can’t I can’t do that.

I can’t. So the bar do I?

Yeah. I thought, well, how

am I supposed to do that?

Now I have to do that. Right.

So I did Timidating. Yeah. Yeah.

So I just I recently I just jumped in and

it was it was awesome.

I actually made this woman come.

Her her legs clamped around my head.

Bad, bad in my ears.

And I felt her shudder.

And the power in that moment of giving

someone pleasure was

the greatest high ever.

It was phenomenal.

Yeah, that’s interesting.

Because I mean, you know, how many times

have you done that to somebody else?

It’s like you never have a woman

experience that, you

know, as the other person.

And you did. That’s interesting.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was that was that

was a highlight of twenty twenty two.

But wait, what about you, Ed?

Because I know that there is a lot of

stigma attached to guy on guy action,

even in the Swinger community, which

would you would think,

if any place people would

be super open, it’s there.

But I hear from a lot of guys that are

into guys in that world.

But you just really can’t cop to it.

You know, where do

you stand on that? Yeah.

So it’s interesting when we

first got into the lifestyle,

there was that rule.

It was an it was an unwritten rule.

You never put it on your profile.

You didn’t talk about it.

But if you happen to be in the right

situation with the right people,

you could kind of let that freak flag fly

and people were into it. So.

We’d been to a house

party where the host had.

Let it out that he was by and there was

another attendee at his party.

And there were there was

two guys going, going at it,

giving each other oral

and Phoebe was fascinated.

I loved it. It was it was very

interesting to watch that dynamic

and to see how that played out.

And I’ll just get out

there. I identify as straight.

So I’ve I’ve had some

experiences with men,

but it was very casual and not.

I wouldn’t even qualify him as sexual.

But I definitely can

appreciate an attractive man.

It helps me for shopping for couples with

with Phoebe and I for sure,

because I know what she likes and I can,

you know, kind of weed the people out

that I know she’s probably

not going to be attracted to.

But what we’ve noticed recently, that

that party and more and more people

are actually starting to

put it in their profiles.

So we’re seeing it on most

of the Swinger dating sites

where they actually put it in their

profile that they’re by.

And we were on the Bliss

Cruise this last November.

And we were in one of the we were in the

big playroom in the solarium.

And there were two guys, big

puppy pile of people, two guys

performing oral sex on each other right

there in the playroom.

Never seen that before

in such a public place.

And it was great.

Like when we walked by, we were like,

good for them. That’s awesome.

Yeah, right on. Why not?

I think it has to do.

You think it has to do with the

demographics of, you know, the people,

because you have this the younger

generation now coming into the world.

And I feel like they’re more open and the

stigma is, you know, sort of

is going to die out when, you know,

people a certain age

range of people just die off, you know,

because I feel like it’s just

an outdated kind of a thing.

Yes. Yeah. And we’ve seen that the

younger generation, they’re out.

They don’t care.

They they’re all about

expressing who they are.

And even in media with the body images,

you know, you’ve got Victoria’s Secret

and Rihanna with our Savage X line and

Afletta all showing different body types

and that self love of who you are

in that moment and where you’re at just

and and so people are really

starting to just come into

their their their confidence

and love, love who they are and where

they’re at and feel free to express that.

Yeah. And I think right.

And you’re seeing it in your world, too,

that it’s getting more open as well.

Absolutely. And I think it’s it’s not

only the younger generation, too,

but because of the portrayals of

sexuality, because

they’re becoming more open.

When you have shows on television that

are basically going, look,

gay people aren’t any

different than than the rest of us.

Like, why is there

such a stigma about this?

It’s open doors, I think, for a lot of

people to be comfortable

with whatever their

sexuality is and say, you know what?

You know, I like having sex, period.

End of story. Like, I don’t necessarily

care what gender the person is

that I’m having sex

with. Right. Right. Exactly.

Mm hmm. Yes, it’s definitely helpful.

I mean, listen, I have a child, a young

son, and we watch TV shows.

I watch one, you know, for him.

And I’m like, my son’s not going to if

he’s straight, he’s not going to

feel like the norm. He’s going to be

like, how do I come out and tell

him what I’m straight because every show

we watch is only guys dating,

guys, girls dating, girls, you know, I

mean, it’s just so different.

Yeah, exactly. It’s so

different than when we grew up.

And I think that that’s great.

But so now you guys start now, did you

guys were you open to full swapping?

Were you really interested in seeing her

with other men in TV?

Were you interested in

seeing him with other women?

I mean, what were your guys

take on that part of things?

Yeah, that’s that’s kind

of how the journey started.

Yeah, Ed was way more comfortable

watching me with other

people than I was watching him.

Yes. That that took a while for me to get

comfortable watching

him have sex with someone.

So I would primarily just focus on my

experience, even though we played

side by side on the same bed.

I I primarily focused on my experience

and I didn’t really look over.

I would touch, you know, the other woman

and, you know, Ed would reassure me.

But visually, I had a really hard time,

you know, looking over.

Yeah, it was, you know, it’s that old

programming that it’s not OK.

Right. Because I grew up,

I went to Catholic school.

So, you know, in a household where they

were hugging, no

physical expression of love.

Sex was done in the dark.

You didn’t talk about it.

So, I mean, to go from that to sharing

your partner was like I still had old

programming, right, that was really

locked in there that

said, that’s that’s not OK.

So only until, gosh, I don’t know, about

four, five years in, did I

start to really enjoy that.

I actually started to get OK with it.

But until about the last two years, I

actually really like it.

And I’ve been experimenting with just

sitting back and just watching.

Just watching.

And, you know, I love that you bring that

up because I have to tell you what I love

about YouTube for my show.

And I’m sure you get this, too, is that

you get the comments and you get the

conversations going over there.

And so I love YouTube for that.

But I have to tell you that I have a lot

of, quote unquote, hotwags or, you know,

the couples where they’re open and the

girl gets to fuck out her guys.

But she’s not into the guy being with

other women, you know, and they’re not as

far along in their journey, maybe as you

guys, maybe 10 years, they will be OK.

But it’s more so I hear that the guys are

OK and the women aren’t.

And the comments are always like that’s

fucked up and not fair.

And, you know, but for you guys, what’s

interesting is that you didn’t look and

you weren’t into it, but

you allowed it to happen.

You were OK with that, which is something

different that I’ve heard.

You know, I I hear all kinds of stories.

This is why I love talking.

I could talk to 100 swingers and every

story is going to be a

little bit different.

So you’re unique, Phoebe, in that you

didn’t want to see it because you felt

like it might bother you,

but you didn’t hold him back.

No, yeah, no.

We had a conversation very early on when

she was uncomfortable.

And I explained, I was like, look, I’m OK

if you’re going to play and I’m just

going to watch for a little while.

Yeah. But at some point, I’m going to

want some candy too, because

I can’t just watch forever.

So I was going to give her a little bit

of runway to have some fun and kind of

get warmed up to the whole idea.

I grew up in a completely different

household where sexuality was open.

My parents walked around naked.

We went to nude beaches.

Oh, wow.

I remember being a kid and going to like

hot tub parties with friends and

everybody was naked like nobody bothered

with with swimsuits.

It was just normal.

My my dad was an artist and.

Oh, OK. Maybe your

parents were swingers, too.

You know, that thought has occurred to us

so many times and it’s a lot of

speculation on our part.

It could have been they were both.

He was in the military back in the 70s,

so it’s quite possible.

Yeah. So I was always really comfortable

watching Phoebe because I

love watching her have orgasms.

I don’t necessarily

have to be providing them.

She could be masturbating.

She could be with another guy or a woman

or two or three other people.

It was great for me because I just

enjoyed watching her have a good time.

And we’d started off very much soft swap.

Eventually, I think we finally figured

out, you know, what what is this whole

like full swap soft swap barrier thing?

Like why do we have this artificial wall?

You got a cock in your mouth.

What’s the what’s the

real difference there?

And we had kind of an epiphany one day

where we’re like, you know what?

Let’s try it.

If we don’t like full

swap, we can always go back.

And we met a nice couple.

We had a great time with them.

And now we’re we’re

open to any experience.

We like soft swap.

We like full swap.

Just watching for us.

The experience is always so different

with every couple that it doesn’t have to

be just like straight to penetrative sex.

So we’re one of I think one of the few

couples in the lifestyle

that are open to everything.

A lot of people we see in their profiles,

they’re like, look, if

you’re not DTF, just keep going.

Like we’re we’re not soft swap.

We’re we’re past all that.

Those were like training wheels days.

And we’re like, it’s still fun to watch.

This is still right.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I hear from those couples.

I mean, everybody is very a lot of times

people are very specific.

One thing I do always hear and it sounds

like you guys are the same is that people

do go in with a lot of rules and

regulations and boundaries and they

quickly sometimes very

quickly fall to the waistline.

Like you guys said you had that kissing

rule, but did that fly out the window?

That’s always one of the

first to go for people.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, it did.

It it it went out the window.

That one was actually a

little more challenging for me.

I was I was a little I know it sounds

strange saying this, but it was less

intimate to give someone a

blowjob than to kiss them.

Something about the.

Oh, no, I think any

woman understands that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Something about the face and the industry

and and honestly,

that’s where it all starts.

That’s where all that’s

where the magic starts to happen.

And we learned very early on that that,

you know, if you’re if you’re not a good

kisser, you don’t know how to kiss or you

don’t know how to follow someone’s lead

while you’re kissing

like in dancing, then it.

Yeah.

You’re not going to be able to follow

instructions well in bed.

And I’ve I’ve had that

experience time and time again.

If you if you can’t take directions and

you, you know, while we’re kissing or if

I’m giving you, you know, little bits of

information and you don’t follow that,

we’re not going to have sex because it’s

just not going to go well.

Yeah, we we often consider kissing is

kind of an audition.

Yeah.

And so when we’re flirting with a couple

and kind of out on the dance floor, if

there’s a little bit of

kissing and it’s really bad,

we’re like, wow, so

nice meeting you next.

And we will very quickly

transition to something else.

So now, I think it’s very important.

It is very important.

It is.

And, you know, our rules would change

sometimes mid play where we would

literally we’re on the bed with another

couple and, you know, we all kind of look

at each other and we

start to have a conversation.

We go, you know, well, we didn’t you

know, we didn’t start this evening, you

know, expecting we would do X or Y,

whatever the rule was, you know, that we

were going to break.

And Ed and I would look at each other and

we’d look at the other couple and we’re

like, well, yeah, let’s experiment.

Let’s do this.

But if I feel nervous, I’ll let you know

when we need to stop.

And I just need to kind of take a breath

to kind of process a

little bit of what’s going on.

But I’m fine.

I’ll just let you know.

And so being able to have that open and

honest conversation with a couple was was

challenging but necessary in

order to to get through it.

And it’s nice.

Most I mean, honestly, the fear was

people were just going to be rude and

reject you, you know, when you’re feeling

vulnerable in bed with them.

But they’re not.

So when yours are the nicest people,

honestly, they really are.

And we found that the couple that you’re

having that conversation within the

playroom or in the hotel room or wherever

it is that you’re having your experience.

If you start that dialogue and say, look,

I may pull the rip cord

because I feel uncomfortable.

They go, oh, good,

because I want that option, too.

Yeah.

And you’ve right since you’ve opened up

that that ability for people to be honest

with you and not feel

like they got ambush.

Or they’re stuck in a situation.

They have to basically

take one for the team.

Right.

Right.

Which is terrible.

You don’t want to do that.

We’ve all done it, but try

not to do that very often.

Right.

Well, you I mean,

well, what about you then?

So when he said to you, like, listen, you

know, you’re going to start be playing

with some guys and that’s cool with me.

And I know that you don’t really want me

to be with other women, but eventually

I’m going to want you.

How did how did you feel about that?

And then what was that first experience

like where you were like,

OK, like now’s the time?

I mean, how did you make that transition?

Oh, gosh, I’m trying to remember.

I think it was just

experimenting with that other couple.

I think I don’t know if we actually we.

We didn’t actually do the hot wife

scenario in the beginning.

We always played together.

Right. So initially,

that’s what I wanted.

And. And even though he said it was OK,

I felt guilty not allowing him to have

that pleasure at the same time.

I felt like I was holding him back.

So even though he was giving me that gift

to go forward, I couldn’t.

Yeah, I couldn’t do it

because I wanted to give

that gift to him just as bad.

So we didn’t move in that direction.

We needed more time to talk it through.

I needed more time to kind of process my

emotions and thoughts about that.

And then when we were ready to go in as a

couple, that’s when we did.

And had that first soft swap experience

with a couple on a bed.

And now so many years later, you’re not

only OK with it, but turned off

by it. Yes. Yes.

It’s very sexy now.

I see it now you like to

watch like a little cut queen.

I’ve had some cut queens on my show and

I’m like, that was like the first time

I started to hear about that.

You know, I mean, it’s

like a new kind of term.

But and then, you know, once one person

called, then I’ll get

like 20 other people.

And I’m like, oh, a lot

of women do enjoy that.

So maybe some of them like I was like

thinking a lot of times people are going

to listen and be like,

oh, maybe I’m that way.

And I like that, too.

I mean, look, you didn’t

even know that about yourself.

Right. You figured it

out as you went along.

Yeah. Yeah.

And you and you you.

Yeah, I guess it was just

a progression, honestly.

And and as you had, as I have had

multiple experiences,

I don’t always need to have a cock.

I don’t always need to be,

you know, in the puppy pile.

It’s it’s nice to I

discovered to just sit back and watch

because you get to see so much more when

you know, when you’re in the mix,

there’s a lot going on

and it’s a little like ADD.

You’re trying to what’s my

focus on your experience?

But then you’re like visually distracted

over here and visually distracted

over there, which is great.

But it’s it’s it’s a bit challenging to

manage all of that visual stimulus.

And I’m highly stimulated

by, you know, my visual.

I’m very visual by nature.

So because going to a

mall is like terror for me.

I get so overwhelmed.

There’s just I have

to look at everything.

I like, you know, all the colors, all the

people, all the dish.

I just want to take it all in.

So now having to sit back, you know,

wanting to sit back and

and and take this in is

really nice and pleasurable.

And some of this came about

because of situations where.

Maybe you weren’t

interested in anybody in the room.

Yeah. And you were

like, well, you know what?

At least I’ll get the silver lining.

I’ll get something out of this.

I can observe and I can

watch other people have fun.

Yeah. And I remember one of the first

experiences that we’d had like this,

the woman that I was playing

with was she was very into me.

We’ve we’ve played with them before.

And it’s actually a little

upsetting for her husband

because of how much fun we have.

But she she and I were on

the bed and going at it.

And we realized like mid whatever that

everybody in the room

was watching the two of us on the bed.

It was it was fantastic.

Like we were so in the moment,

we didn’t even pay attention.

And of course, I kept checking in with

Phoebe to make sure she was OK.

She’s like, oh, yeah,

have fun. This is great.

And she was just kicking

back, watching the whole thing.

It was it was

fabulous. It was a great night.

And now so did you guys you’re like going

to you go to swingers clubs?

You mentioned parties, cruises.

Are you strictly in the lifestyle?

Do you have to do are you also on apps

like meeting couples

outside of the clubs and stuff?

Yeah, we we we are on SLS and Cassidy.

Those are big in our area. Right.

And we use those mostly just for finding

out where the house parties are

in the clubs, because we really like

meeting people in person.

We have done those dates, you know,

dinner dates or coffee dates, whatever.

But they in the past, they

haven’t really panned out.

It’s kind of hit and

miss. It is hit and miss.

So, you know, when you’re at a party,

there’s usually some

someone for everybody.

Right. And and it’s connecting.

It’s it’s really the networking thing.

It’s like sales.

You know, you you there may not be

anybody there you want to play with.

But you met another couple that also has

a house party somewhere else.

And then you get on their list. Right.

And now now you’ve got another option.

So it’s it’s all about

the networking face to face.

And we’re also really.

In favor of meeting people

face to face, because profiles

are so one dimensional.

Not everybody can write well.

Their feelings and their personality

doesn’t always come

through in their profile.

The photographs are bad.

Most people are not good photographers.

Most of the time, there’s not even a

picture of the husband in profiles,

which is one of our big pet peeves.

And one of the things we talk about all

the time in our our podcast,

even for normal vanilla

people like dating profiles,

people are terrible at

marketing themselves.

So we got really good

at crafting our profile

and really making it appealing to people.

But we also realize that most people

didn’t do such a good job

with marketing themselves and

talking to them face to face

and watching their emotions and their

expressions and hearing their humor

and engaging with them world’s apart.

Makes them more attractive.

Yes. They’re just people.

Totally. You see a picture and you’re

like, they don’t

really do anything for me.

But you meet in person. You’re like, wow,

that person really is doing stuff for me.

I need to like, yeah,

we need to get together.

Yeah, I always look at

people on TV that way.

I’m like, I try to think of this back

with like, you know, this person like,

oh, he seems like he’s like hot to me,

but I bet you if he was on an app

and he there was just a flat picture of

him, I would have never chosen

because you don’t get

anything right for a picture.

I totally agree with you guys.

Let’s talk about your journey into the

whole podcast world because

and also how you went from being

anonymous to really coming out.

I mean, that’s like a very big decision.

You know, why, first of

all, did you start it?

You did it when in 2019

you said you started at.

We got really frustrated with.

Well, you talk about

it and you’re going to.

Yeah. So we started

listening to podcasts, right?

So we were steeped.

We’d listen to hours and hours and hours

of all of the big podcasts

that were out at the time.

And what we experienced was one,

there was a lot of conversation and a lot

of the typical podcast stuff

where people don’t get to the content

until way too late into the podcast,

which was frustrating for for Phoebe in

particular, because, you know,

if a TV show is boring and doesn’t catch

her attention, she’s changed the channel.

She’s on to the next thing.

She did the same thing with the podcast.

I have no patience.

So what we were also finding, though, was

a lot of the podcasts

didn’t help people get started.

So they didn’t have like,

hey, this is how you start.

This is how you progress.

These are the the specific situations

that you’re going to

get into as a Swinger

and how you navigate

those specific things.

In a sense, what we wanted to do was

almost a masterclass

in getting started in swinging.

So less about getting to

know who we are and more about

this is how you succeed in the lifestyle.

This is how you get started.

This is how you meet people.

These are some tips and tricks.

Very practical, hands on, concise.

Here’s some facts.

This is how you do it.

And we liked that.

We know that’s not

everybody’s cup of tea, but.

We think it’s very valuable to be able to

go, hey, I can look up on Swinger

University, a specific topic topic, go

right there and learn about that

so that I can get through that first

event or I can, you know, I’m struggling

with a BV or I want to know like, where

do I finally Swinger clothes?

Like, where do people do it?

So we’ve got episodes that talk to a very

specific aspect of swinging

in order to get people started in order

to get them through that.

Whatever that next hurdle is that they’re

going through in the lifestyle.

But, yeah, no, I think that that’s smart

because people are always emailing

me looking for that kind of information

and I’m kind of like, listen to my show

or, you know, but I love when I do have

guests on that do that because I think

that there are a lot of people out there

looking for that information.

And, you know, listen, Phoebe had

mentioned early on that when you guys

brought up Swinging, she went and did a

deep dive and she was like, Google it.

You know, I’m like that kind of person

too, but most people aren’t, you know,

so they they want to be

spoon fed the information.

They don’t want to go

spend hours Googling about it.

You know, they just want to fucking give

me the five best tips you have for

Swinging, you know, tell

me exactly how to do it.

And so I think it’s great

that you offer that for people.

Yeah. And that that that

is right in my wheelhouse.

Organizing information that is like with

my communication

background and a researcher.

I love gathering all that, condensing it

down and packaging it.

So it’s easily digestible for people

because we all have busy lives.

So I just do it because it’s fun for me.

And I know it will help other people.

And so that was also, you know, what

helped us get this podcast forward.

And what we’ve noticed, because you had

asked about why we finally came out

and it was kind of twofold for us.

One, it was marketing.

It helped us to be presentable and seeing

a face and associating

a face with the voice.

People could connect with us better.

And we also realized that we’re trying to

de-stigmatize sex and swinging

and make it not taboo

and not naughty and dirty.

I mean, maybe a little naughty and maybe

a little dirty sometimes.

But it’s not something to be ashamed of.

And yet here we were being anonymous and

not showing our faces.

And we struggled for probably a year.

So we were on a cruise and we talked to

some long time old school podcasters,

Penn and Page from Swinger Diaries, and

we had dinner with them.

It was a great conversation.

And they asked,

just out of

curiosity, why aren’t you out?

What was the decision for you?

And we were like, well,

one, we’re kind of afraid of what would

happen with our our outside lives, right?

Our normal lives.

Is it going to affect our jobs?

Is it going to affect our families?

And for the next year, we kind of stewed

on it and it

processed and we thought about

it and we talked about it kind of like

everything that we do.

We do a lot of thinking and talking and

communication with each other

in order to get through stuff.

And we finally said, you know what?

My parents won’t care.

Your mom won’t be in any of the circles,

you know, six degrees of any to find out.

So probably wouldn’t find out, although

if she did, it would be terrible for her.

Devastating.

Right.

Old school Catholic would kick in and

we’re going to hell.

But.

My kids are all grown up.

We have jobs that don’t have

that in the policy where, yeah,

you know, we would get fired.

And that was one thing

I looked up right away.

I was like, you have

a whole ethics clause.

Yeah.

And so we finally

just said, you know what?

What?

Why not?

Let’s do it.

Let’s come out.

We don’t think our lives are going to

implode because of this.

And so far they haven’t.

But we also haven’t

gotten really big yet.

So who knows?

Yeah.

The implosion may come.

But so far it’s been

really positive for us.

And when we were on the Swinger Cruise

and when we’ve been at events and we’ve

you know, we’ve worn our t-shirts and

stuff to kind of market

the podcast and to get

people to approach us because we like we

like meeting people.

Like we want to hear their stories.

We want to learn about them just like you

figure out how they tick and how they do

it. Yeah.

What struggles did they go through?

Because that helps us to one better

understand our

perspective, but help other

people who are

struggling with those same things.

And the response that we’ve gotten from

us coming out has been phenomenal.

Like people will walk up to us and talk

to us and they’re like, we love it.

It’s great.

Appreciate you guys doing that.

And it’s been it’s

been all positive so far.

Yeah, that’s great.

And then, I mean, do

you have like an audience?

I mean, and it also is a smart way to get

people over to your YouTube channel.

I mean, that’s just a, you

know, because YouTube is visual.

I mean, I’m anonymous on my show.

So on YouTube, I’m like, how

the fuck am I going to do it?

Because my YouTube channel is doing good.

I’m like, oh, I want to do some videos.

So I just I don’t know if you saw, but

like on my YouTube channel, I do like my

torso shot. I mean, it’s kind of thirsty

and funny and it kind of works.

But yeah, I love it.

We did notice that.

Yeah.

But yeah, but I think that that’s great.

Yeah. Yeah.

You have to have something visual,

something that people can connect to.

Yeah. We we’d had a few conversations

because I have a graphics background and

I’m really good with software and visual

production and doing

the video and whatnot.

So I could think of all kinds of

different ways to kind

of mask the faces and, you

know, do the witness protection program,

you know, most filters on people.

We were going to do like little animated

cartoon heads for a while.

And I was like, you know what?

All this stuff feels really corny.

And yeah.

And being a visual person, cropping my

head off or cropping Phoebe’s head off

as an as an artist and a

photographer, it really bothered me.

Like it violates all of the

the rules for composition.

But for sure.

Yeah.

Yeah. I get people like

your camera is too low.

I think you positioned.

I mean, that’s not

the majority of people.

But every now and then

I’ll get someone like that.

I mean, most people know

if I know that’s my thing.

But right.

And because my show is

called Strictly Anonymous.

I became anonymous by accident.

I have to say it was it was only because

I thought my show would suck.

I didn’t even know it

was going to be about that.

It was like everything

happened sort of backwards.

And it just kind of came together.

And then it just kind of worked.

And now it really works.

So I’m always like, you know,

there’s a price for my faith.

I will eventually probably come out

because I hope I

become big enough to do it.

But at this point, because it really in a

weird way for my show, because what it’s

about, it’s not about me.

It’s about the other people anyway.

And it is called Strictly Anonymous.

It kind of works.

But I think it’s amazing that you guys

were able to do that.

And that’s a part of your journey,

because you could also

help other people with that

aspect of things, you know, as far as

their journey of being

singers, because here you

are, like you said, trying to normalize

it or make it more, you know, make it

acceptable that you are hiding out now

that you come forward.

And the fact that you did both and you

have that transition,

I think is also really

great, too, because you could explain it

and help other people.

Yeah, we we think that

there was that benefit.

And it’s funny when you talk about kind

of the imposter

syndrome and like, this is

going to suck. I hope

nobody I hope people watch it.

I hope nobody watches

it at the same time.

We go through that at

the time with our episodes.

And I think the first year we were very

critical of everything that we produced.

And with YouTube, it’s been a whole extra

layer because we went from, you know, one

dimension audio to three dimensions with

cameras and lighting and getting our hair

done and all that kind of stuff.

So it’s been a journey for sure to to get

comfortable with that and to kind of put

ourselves out there

in more ways than one.

And now do you still have your, you know,

like your careers are still in place and

has anyone in your vanilla world like

found out that this

is what you guys do or

you’re still kind of like, even though

you’re out on your YouTube, you’re still

kind of not out in your whole life?

Yeah, we’re not out in our whole life.

No one from my current job

has found out, although I have

I’ve had conversations with co-workers

where I’ve probably

disclosed a little too

much about camera equipment and lighting

and microphones because, you know, I work

in an audio visual environment and they

started asking

questions and there’s Phoebe

in the background because we work in the

same office and she’s behind me going,

no, don’t go there.

So I definitely strayed to that side.

Now, interestingly enough, we’ve both

through previous employers

run into people in the lifestyle that we

worked with, which was no way

hilarious and scary. And then it turned

out to be really sexy and kind of hot at

the same time. Yeah, I

had a hook up with them.

I tried to.

We tried to hook up with all of them.

But you didn’t get to be there.

No, none of them.

It was one of those things where it was

super hot to be like

at work and, you know,

talking away and they walk

by and you give a little wink.

Right. Like, I know what you know.

You know what I know.

But nothing ever really happened.

And I think we’re both a little

disappointed in that because they were

they’re sexy people and it would be fun.

And of course, now that we don’t work

there, it’s it’s even less awkward

potentially. Yeah.

So we now tell me

about your only fans now.

How did how did you get into that?

And what do you do over there?

Like, what would people find over there?

Sexy fix videos.

We got into that.

We were talking with a

woman at our local nudist resort

who is a chatterbait model.

And I, you know, here here I am, like

asking a lot of questions like, really,

tell me more about

that. How does this work?

Yeah. For three hours,

I talked to this woman.

And I said, I couldn’t believe she made

the money that she makes on there. And

she’s like, oh, she’s like,

I said it, I said it’s probably too late

for me to get into some.

She’s like, no, there is an endless

amount of money out there.

And she she I go, well, how

do you how do you dictate?

Like your whole day must

be just, you know, busy.

And she goes, oh, no.

She goes, if I’m taking

a shower, I just film it.

If I’m in the hot tub, I just you know,

she said her vacation,

one of her vacation there at that nudist

resort was paid just because she was in

the hot tub that morning,

putting her feet in front

of the light in the hot tub.

And she got that video and she sold the

video and paid for her day there at the

resort. I’m like, get out. Right.

So of course, that took

a year of contemplation.

And then she came over and I had to ask

her a whole bunch of questions.

And I wasn’t going the

route of chatterbait.

But I thought, you know, yeah, maybe we

could do some some photos.

It started with foot photos,

but now it’s way past that.

Now it’s like full on

porn and everything.

It’s finally there.

So that’s what people get

to see if they go there.

I mean, you do custom

video stuff like that.

Yes, we do mostly stuff that that’s more

story based that we like to do.

We haven’t done any

custom stuff at this point.

We will. But we get a request.

We haven’t gotten any requests yet.

We’re we’re fledgling only fanners.

And I think a lot of it was I’ve always

really enjoyed watching Phoebe taking

pictures of Phoebe videoing Phoebe.

It’s hot for me.

And I think we’re kind of

in the back of our head.

We’re like, you know what?

We’re getting older.

Our retirement plan.

You know, maybe we just maybe we just

make some passive income this way.

Like we’ll keep it

separate from the podcast.

It’s not the podcast.

That’s still free.

We’re still pushing that content out.

Why? Because it’s helpful.

We like to contribute

back to the community.

But, you know, if people

want to pay to see our junk,

why not? Like why not?

This would be fun.

Plus, it’s super sexy.

I think it’s a part of your brand.

It’s like your podcast

is your is your podcast.

But then you create a

whole brand around that.

And there’s everything as an extension,

but it’s like all within that.

So I think that that’s great.

And I think only fans for a couple like

you would be a no brainer.

I mean, I get I just did a Q&A for my

picture and they’re like someone’s like,

why don’t you do an only dance?

Because it doesn’t make sense.

It doesn’t go with my show.

You know, I can’t have other people on my

only fans and my show is not about me.

But like your show is about you guys and

swingers and sex and why not?

I mean, if I were you guys, I was because

you can make some good money.

And it is a way to just extend your brand

and create more content and get a larger

fan base. I think that

there’s nothing wrong with that.

I think it’s great. Smart.

Yeah. And I think a lot of it, too, is

it’s a different

expression of our sexuality.

Yeah, we’ve exposed a couple of times.

We’re exhibitionists.

We like playing in front of other people.

We like having sex in

front of other people.

There’s no bigger

audience than the internet.

Right. No different.

Right. It’s like the

biggest sex party you’ve been to.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, you’re starting the

party like you were

at those small places,

but you’re just doing it online and like

you said, tons of people.

So your exhibitionist

side is getting your fault.

So right. Yeah.

Yeah. And it’s it’s sexy

for us as a couple, too,

to be able to take

pictures of each other.

And honestly, I’ve learned a lot in this

process where people about the different

kinks were initially I go,

oh, you know, I’m kind

of surprised at that.

I’m surprised somebody likes that.

And then I start to think about that and

I go, huh, well, gosh, you know,

I mean, there’s really some something for

everybody out there.

And if they really like that and that

really turns them on, then

maybe I could give that to them.

I mean, if they really want it and that’s

their thing, it’s not my thing.

Right. You know, it’s

not what turns me on.

And it doesn’t compromise.

You know, then you have to think about

does it compromise what I want to do,

you know, and how I want to my body to be

shown or what I want to do for money.

You always have to assess that.

But if it’s OK and fits within that, you

go, gosh, you know, yeah, I could

I could provide that to somebody if

they’re willing to see

that and pay for that.

And that’s their that’s their kink.

And sure, why not?

You know, it’s all

about whatever you’re into.

And I’m always

surprised what people are into.

It’s kind of fun.

It’s crazy, but it’s fun.

Oh, yeah, I just had a girl on an airing

for this Monday, Naomi and she like

hooked up with a couple

and she’s together into,

you know, corruption,

kink and like, what’s that?

But then she’s like

also, you know, monster kink.

I’m like, what the fuck is that?

I mean, like monster

dildos or like real monsters?

Like, no, like monsters, like they have

like these really high end costumes.

I mean, it’s so fascinating.

I’m like, doesn’t matter.

I mean, I have almost

600 episodes and then some.

And I still it’s always amazing to me

that I still will hear about new things.

You know, like you can’t believe it.

Well, people are into and

and they will pay for it.

I mean, I have a lot of girls on who to

who are in the sex work business or they

have holding bands and they

do cater to guys in that way.

And I mean, you know, it’s crazy to kind

of request that that could come in that,

you know, you can’t believe

the shit that guy will pay for.

Sometimes they’ll even

pay for giving you money.

I mean, there’s this whole thing that I’m

just learning about called Sendom.

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

They just want you to take their money.

Like that’s what it is.

I’m like, holy shit.

I think that’s great that you’re in that

now to give out all your shout out.

So for people that are listening, they

want information,

newbie couples that want

to get into the swinging lifestyle.

Your podcast will be great for them.

Give that information.

And then as well as your YouTube, I’ll

put links to everything in there.

Do you have like a link tree thing that

you could send me that has all your

links on it? Well, we

also have a website.

So Swinger University dot com. Oh, OK.

And you can find all of the different

sites and services that offer the podcast

links to our YouTube links to our only

fans, links to our Costa Rica takeover,

which we’re doing in June.

We’re actually doing a vacation, which

and it’s through a friend of ours who’s a

promoter and she’s helping us to organize

that and set that all

up. But we still have room.

It will give some information about that.

If people could. So that’s

something that you’re like a

Swinger vacation that

you’re doing and people could.

OK, give some information about the rest.

Interesting. It’s right in the jungle.

It’s in in the Haco area of Costa Rica.

It’s that this boutique yoga resort.

So it’s beautiful.

There’s I mean, it is literally like

being in the jungle.

It’s a manicured

jungle, but it’s gorgeous.

And there’s 20 rooms and

the whole vacation is facilitated around

getting people to

interact with one another.

There’s classes every night in the

playroom on vlogging

or squirting, squirting.

And then they have

the other toys to be in.

Sibian. And what’s also included in the

vacation are excursions.

So a lot of the adult

resorts, you can’t leave.

It’s not safe and you wouldn’t want to

because you spent a

lot of money for them.

But this resort, you you

you get excursions with it.

So you get outside of the resort, which

is other opportunities to meet people

and connect with them so and you can be

naked anywhere in the resort.

Yeah, the resort, except for in the

dining room, which is pretty typical.

And what’s interesting is most of the

excursions are together as a group.

So at other swing or takeovers that we’ve

been to, everybody kind of breaks off

and scatters and goes

and does their own thing.

You can do this particular trip, but

there are a couple excursions and there

are a lot of activities where everybody

does it together as a group, which is

great because you get to meet people and

interact with them and see them having

fun, which is way sexier than seeing them

after you’re tired after doing

ATVing all day and

you’re dirty and that’s it.

That’s the end of your day.

We’re all acting through these things

together and we get to interact with

them, which is awesome.

And we have whiskey taste.

Yeah, that’s my foreplay, too, because

sometimes, you know,

how many times for you,

Phoebe, as a woman like that, we meet a

guy and don’t have any feelings for him.

But after you get to know him, you’re

like, oh, now I find him fucking hot, you

know, like because you’ve

gone to know him a little bit.

So I think that that’s great that you do

push for that interaction with people

because I think that

maybe some people will

find people they’re more attracted to

maybe that they didn’t realize because

they’re getting to know them

outside of the bedroom, too.

Yeah.

We’re going to do some fun

stuff, too, as as podcasters.

Of course, there’s pool

games and some fun activities.

But we’re also hoping to make it a little

bit educational as well, kind of keeping

with the spirit of of what

our podcast is all about.

So a lot of times people will be first

time or first swing

our vacation and they’ll

come on these kinds of trips and it’ll be

great for them

because we’re going to help.

We’re going to help bring them on board

and come over to the dark side because we

have more more fun over here. Exactly.

Yeah, that’s great.

So it’s like when

your vacation one on one.

So if people want information on that,

they could go to your website,

Swinger University dot com.

What is your website again?

Swinger University dot com.

Your podcast is Swinger University.

Your YouTube channel, Swinger University.

And like I said, go to the website.

I’ll put your website and all your

information as well as your only fans.

If you want to see more

hardcore stuff, you could go there.

That’s a little bit more personalized.

But thanks so much for

coming on and sharing your story.

I’m going to use your

thumbnail when I’m promoting.

Instagram, is that cool? I like it.

Yeah, fantastic.

And I like I try to find good pictures on

Google and somehow I found that once.

And I liked it enough to use

that I still have some guys.

But I like it.

And, you know, thanks so much, like I

said, for coming on.

I think I found you because you made a

comment right on something.

It was a case thing.

And I was like, oh, why don’t you guys

come on and tell your story?

I think that’s great. And hopefully some

of my YouTube like any of my YouTube,

you know, I have a

large audience of YouTube.

You should go check you guys out.

Thank you guys so much for calling in.

I’m sure you’ll get tons of people going

to listen to your podcast.

And I hope you’ll get a lot of people

over to your OnlyFans

since you just started.

But thank you so much for

calling in and sharing your story.

Thank you. So lovely

speaking with you today.

Yeah, we appreciate it.

Awesome. Thanks so much.

Have fun in Costa

Rica. I’m a little jealous.

Well, come on down. Come on out.

I always say, obviously,

you’re like what I’m sick.

The Toronto Unicorn.

She’s on my shows.

Why are you waiting for your six feet?

It’s still hot now. Do it now.

You’re young.

Exactly. All right.

Thank you, guys. Thank you.

Bye. Bye bye.