Unlock Your Best Sex Life with Ashley Manta – Mindfulness, Cannabis, and Consent

Welcome to Swinger University. I’m Ed.

And I’m Phoebe.

Today we are interviewing Ashley Manta,

an award-winning sex educator and

certified sexologist.

We’re going to discuss sex, consent, and

cannabis, STIs, how

to be a skilled lover.

Oh my goodness, got a lot to cover. This

is going to be a great

episode. We’re super excited about

it. But before we get

started, let’s introduce Ashley.

She is a sought after authority on

mindfully combining sex and

cannabis as part of her Ken

sexual brand, which has expanded to

include psychedelics. She

is the author of The CBD

Solution, sex published in 2020 in

conjunction with Mary Jane and Chronicle

Books. She completed her

certification as a body sex facilitator

after studying with

legendary pleasure pioneer,

Betty Dodson. Ashley is the creator of

the Activating Your

Cosmic Pussy Sisterhood

and a series of online

intensives and retreats.

Welcome. We are so excited that you are

here. We listened to you on several

podcasts. We listened

to you on Double Teamed and Justin Lee

Miller, Brain Candy. Yes, that was my

phrase, Brain Candy,

because I’m driving and I’m like, I’m

trying to take notes mentally while

you’re talking in my

ear. And I’m like, Oh my God, Oh my God,

Oh my God. She’s like

totally mentally stimulating me

right now. I’m like loving all this

information. So I was geeking out big

time. Yeah. Yeah. And

of course she brought it home and had to

share it with me. And then we

were both geeking out on it.

So it’s been great. I know. I love that.

So your story is fabulous. I

love your story. And I want

our audience to know a little bit about

your background, how you

got to this point in your

life, because it’s quite the story and

it’s very, I love it.

So you need to share.

It would be my pleasure. I’ll give you

the highlights. It’s a

long story otherwise,

and I want to make sure that we get to

the things that are most

juicy for your listeners.

Perfect. But I personally am a sexual

trauma survivor. And the

way that I dealt with that

in my ADHD neuro divergent brain was that

I became an expert on

trauma. When I was in undergrad and

grad school, I focused a lot of my study

on trauma, sexuality,

healing trauma. And I became a rape

crisis counselor, domestic violence

crisis counselor, victim

advocate. And I sort of

ate slept and breathed primary prevention

and sexual violence

prevention in the early

part of my career. And it was really

meaningful impactful work,

but it was also really high

burnout work. And so by the time, you

know, 2023 rolls around

where I’m like 25 years old and

having nervous breakdowns, I realized

that that was not a

sustainable career path. And so I

pivoted hard. And first I worked at

Planned Parenthood and got

into the reproductive health

side of sexuality education. And then

when I moved to California

in later in 2013, I started

working as a phone sex operator. And it

turns out I have a really,

really sexy phone sex voice.

And I’m very good at dirty talk. So that

was a really fun way to be

like, Oh, I can make money

as a sexuality professional, not actually

doing like the hard scary

trauma thing. Right. And

it was not great money as a phone sex

operator. So I pivoted again

slightly and got a job at the

pleasure chest in West Hollywood as the

web manager. So I was

ordering toys and lubes and

lotions and potions and accessories for

the website, getting it

up, trying out products,

going to trade shows, meeting the vendors

who were manufacturers and

creators of these products.

And also a lot of adult performers who

were adjacent to the

space. And that was when I was

like, Oh, okay, this part of the industry

is really interesting to me.

And around the same time is

when I got my medical card living in

California. So I was exposed to medical

cannabis for the first

time and realized that, wow, there’s so

much more than living in

Pennsylvania. When you go to a

dealer and your options are weed or

nothing. There was no

choice. There were no edibles,

there were no topicals or any of those

kinds of things. And so I

found a company in California

that was making a THC infused lube that

was meant to be applied to

the vulva and that was supposed

to enhance orgasm and decrease

discomfort. And I had experienced pain

with penetration for most of

my adult life. So this product allowed me

to have penetrative sex

without pain. And I realized that

there were not any sex educators talking

about sex and cannabis

from what I could see in the

industry at the time. And so that became

my niche. I started writing

for Leafly and Dope magazine.

It ended up leading to me getting written

up in high times and a

book deal. And I became the

can of sexual. Yes. I love this path.

It’s fascinating. It’s

fun how a problem then just

blossoms into this solution, which then

we share and becomes this

thing, this passion that we

can’t but help share with other people.

Yeah. I also love too how almost

everybody can kind of

look back in their past and go, “You

know, I had this one

really strange job. It’s this…

You did what? Oh, that’s interesting.

Fascinating.” I know.

Wait, which is the strange job?

Well, I mean, it’s strange for vanilla

people to be a phone sex

operator. I mean, that’s…

What? Not strange. It’s

not strange for us. Oh.

But or our podcast

listeners. Uncommon, one might say.

Yeah. I was like, “What’s

up?” It’s an interesting job.

Yes. Just kind of start with this whole

sex and cannabis and

swinging. We’re always…

We travel in those circles and so

everyone’s like, “Honestly, Ashley, I’m

so tired of hearing people

go, “Oh, I’m pink, pink, and horny.” And

I’m like, “Bitch, it

does not. You are just…

That is not true. Even some guys will do

that. They’re like, “Oh, I

smoked this.” And I’m like,

“I’m so horny.” I’m like, “Really? And

then can you get it up after that?” I

doubt that because I have

experimented… Now, I will say I haven’t

been very good with my

scientific experimentation,

but it does absolutely nothing for me.

And I’ve been on the

hunt for the secret sauce.

And I don’t think it exists. Can you

please tell us the truth?

Please.

I absolutely can. And full disclosure

before we get into all of this, I am

non-monogamous and kinky.

So just in case anybody’s listening to

this and they’re like, “What is this

monogamous, heterosexual

girl?” No, I’m bisexual, kinky, and poly

as fuck. So y’all know I

used to host sex parties.

I’m a slut. So yes, you might be able to

sleep with me at some

point if I like you.

I’m a fucking slut, but I’m a slut.

Good company.

So when it comes to cannabis and libido,

I have a lot of people come

to me and they’re like, “Oh,

it makes me horny or it doesn’t make me

horny, or I want it to make

me horny,” or all the different

things, right? Yeah.

What I would say is that cannabis, when

used very intentionally, can

help address the things that are

getting in the way of pleasure

connection, intimacy,

horniness. But in and of itself,

it is not a magic substance that is going

to suddenly turn you

into a ravenous sex monster.

That’s just not how that works. So when

people say, “Oh, it makes me

horny or I smoked this thing

and I got horny,” you were probably a

little horny to begin with and it just

enhanced what you were

already feeling. Got it.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And

we’ve thought of any form

of cannabis as kind of like

an alternative to alcohol to kind of

lubricate, like a social lubricant. It

takes your inhibitions

down a little bit, but in moderation

because it very quickly

goes into sleep or disorderly

conduct or any one of

those things. So yeah.

Hmm.

Yeah, moderation in all things,

mindfulness in all things.

And especially when you’re trying to do

it with sex, I generally

do not recommend that you

use cannabis or any mind altering

substance with a new partner.

Right.

Like just from a consent perspective and

because you want to be able

to establish a sober baseline

with someone before

you start adding things.

Yeah. And I definitely want to talk about

sex and consent and how

and when to use things

and how it’s being used in our community.

I want to talk about the

vulva, the THC-CBD combination

and how women can use this to enhance

their sexual pleasure.

Hell yes.

What is going on now out there with these

products and do they work?

What is the combination that

we buy or look for?

Yeah, a lot of them do. And there’s a

fair bit of snake oil on the

market. So this is very much

a buyer beware situation. But what I will

tell you is that THC, CBD,

CBG, CBN, all of the other

cannabinoids work better together. So if

you happen to live in a

prohibition state and all that’s

available is CBD only, it’s better than

nothing, but just barely.

Hmm.

And you really want at

least a little bit of

THC to help CBD do what it’s trying to do

because the CBD molecule

does not bind to our body’s

endocannabinoid receptors, which are the

CB1 and CB2 receptors. It

doesn’t bind to them directly.

It needs THC to do that. So it’s not

going to be as helpful on its own. That

said, it can come in a

lot of different forms. I think the forms

that are the most useful

specifically around sexual

pleasure are topicals, like an oil that

you would apply. You allow

it to marinate for 20 minutes

and then you get into your sexy fun times

or suppositories, which I

swear by. Not just because

they’re amazing for menstrual cramps and

people who have

endometriosis or symptoms of menopause,

but also because if you have someone who

maybe has a partner that is

longer than you are deep and

you’ve had the unpleasant experience of

having your cervix knocked

during sex, it can really

help with the discomfort of that

sensation. It’s also great for anal and

it doesn’t get you high.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It sounds like a triple win.

Right. I agree. So then what’s the

difference with CBD and

hemp? I’ve bought a few products

online where they’re like, “It’s hemp,”

and then they ship it to

me and then it does nothing.

Okay. So this country, there’s so much

misinformation and bad information.

Hemp is nothing more than a legal

designation. It’s all cannabis. All

cannabis is cannabis,

is cannabis, is cannabis. Hemp means that

that particular plant

has less than 0.3% THC

by volume, by dry weight. So hemp plants

are just low THC, typically higher CBD,

varietals of cannabis. Now, there are a

lot of products out there

that say that they are CBD

products, but when you read the fine

print, all it has in it is hemp seed oil.

That is not the same.

CBD and hemp seed oil are not the same.

They don’t do the same

things. That’s not how that works.

Wow. Right.

So if you have a CBD only product, what

you want to look for is

a full spectrum product.

That means that you are actually getting

other cannabinoids

like THC and the others,

and you’re probably getting some terpenes

and some plant matter. When you see

things that are CBD,

isolate. It’s 99% CBD. That’s usually not

going to be super helpful for you

because it lacks the other cannabinoids

that it needs to be effective.

Right. That receptor binder assistance

doesn’t exist. That makes a lot of sense.

That does. So then some of these

products, I was looking at

them because I’m trying to

purchase some and it is challenging

depending on where you live

because you can’t ship things

across state lines. In fact, I even tried

to buy something down in Southern

California and I found

one of the products that I wanted. It was

Push Queen. The Push Queen.

Oh yeah. The Alexander’s

company. They’re great products.

Yeah. And so I found a store, of course

it’s nowhere here

where I live in Sacramento.

And so I’m like, fine, it’s in

California. I’ll just buy it from

Southern California. I call them

up. Hey, can you ship it to me? I’m in

the same state. No. Now

that might just be their store.

They don’t ship, but technically I was

thinking, you know,

because we’re in the same state,

they could. Right.

It’s a legal gray area because

technically the United

States Postal Service is federal

and so there is some, like, if you’re

following the letter of the law, you

wouldn’t ship cannabis

even within the state. That said, if you

had a friend to go buy it

for you who’s comfortable

taking a little bit of risk and doing a

little civil

disobedience, that’s an option. Right.

You could also take a road trip down to

SoCal. That’s an option.

Right. Yeah.

I didn’t even see the suppositories when

I was shopping online.

Like, that didn’t even come up

as an option. The company I like that

makes suppositories in

California is called Hello Again.

And they originally designed their

products to be for people who are

perimenopausal and in menopause,

but it really is helpful for wherever you

are in your walk of

life. And they make different

concentrations like four to one THC to

CBD, one to one, five to two.

Like, they have all different

concentrations based on what you’re

trying to accomplish with that

suppository. And so you can

really kind of tailor it to what you

need. That’s fun. Yeah.

Nice. You can probably

try one particular formulation and then

adjust. Absolutely. And it’s a

women-owned company and

we love supporting women. Oh, gosh. 100%.

I always try to support it.

When I’m shopping on Etsy,

if it’s most usually they’re women-owned,

I will buy. There are

some alcohol companies

that are women-owned. What’s the alcohol?

The tequila company.

Three sisters, three leaves,

three something like that. Yeah. Three

sisters. Women-owned.

Three seeds. Women-owned. Nice.

I like it because women-owned. Now, some

of these lubes have tea

tree oil and peppermint, etc.,

which gives me a bit of pause because I

don’t want to disrupt

the microbiome of my

vulva and start messing all that up. And

I kind of want to feel what

this CBD THC combination does

aside from the tea trail and peppermint,

because I know that’s going to be

stimulating. So it’s a

little challenging for me to find a

product that I want without

that. But that Kush Queen,

the Kush Queen didn’t have those

ingredients. So I was

pretty jazzed about that.

Kush Queen is awesome. There’s also

another women-owned company that’s

actually in the Bay Area

called Quim, Q-U-I-M. Yeah. And they have

a sensitive formula

that’s minimal ingredients.

It’s just oil and cannabinoids. Nice.

That’s closer to us too. Yeah.

That’s a very short road

trip. We could do that. That is.

And then hit twist in San

Francisco. Or the power exchange.

Or the power exchange, yeah. They pop

down to Santa Cruz and visit me.

Yay! You’re in Santa Cruz.

Oh. Oh, yeah. That sounds cool.

How very nice. You went

to school in Santa Cruz?

That was a former life where my ex I met

in Santa Cruz. You won’t go there.

It’s a totally different episode.

All right. Let’s talk about consent in

the NAM Anagamas community.

And I wanted to touch on… We could talk

about how cannabis

plays a role with consent.

I also wanted to touch on what you

thought about consent in the Swinger

community and how that

differs from the BDSM community and what

you’ve noticed in regards to consent.

True consent. I will tell you that I, as

an early sex educator,

especially in the 2013 to 2015 or so

range, was very hesitant and apprehensive

about entering Swinger

spaces because Swinger spaces

have a reputation for being kind of a

free-for-all, especially around consent

and drug use. I was very

nervous about going to a Swinger party

and what’s it going to be like and is

somebody going to be

grabbing my ass and all those kinds of

things. What I have seen in

the time that I’ve started

spending in Swinger communities is that

there is a much greater

emphasis in the recent years

on consent, on awareness, on

thoughtfulness around bodily autonomy, on all of those things.

And so I feel much safer going to Swinger

events now than I think I

would have 10 years ago.

That said, I think the BDSM community

still has an edge on the Swinger

community because their

consent is a negotiation or built into

every aspect of BDSM in

the community. And I think

with Swingers, there is still a little

bit of like, “Oh, hey,

you’re hot. I’m hot. We’re hot.

Everybody good? Okay, great.” It feels

like it flows and it’s a

little bit more fluid and

loosey-goosey, which is fine if

everybody’s okay with that, but it’s kind

of fine until it’s not.

Right.

And I still find that there’s a lot of

like, “Hey, I did Molly and

went to a Swinger party,” or,

“Hey, I’m on mushrooms. I’m at a Swinger

party.” And I’m not a

lawyer. I don’t play one on TV,

but I came from that world and I can tell

you, you are not legally

allowed to consent when you

are intoxicated. So if you’re going to

these spaces, you’re already

in a real consent danger zone

when you are under the influence of a

psychedelic or any kind of

substance. And there’s also a lot

of alcohol at Swinger events as well,

which makes me… Yes.

It gives me what my best friend Katie

would call cause for pause.

Yes.

So there’s best practices and then

there’s like real life.

And I think finding somewhere

in the middle is useful and it’s really

important to have clear communication and

be checking in with yourself, with your

partner, and with your potential partners

frequently, especially if there are

substances involved.

Right.

Right.

When we first started swinging, we were

swinging sober for about

the first three to four years,

mostly because that’s just how I am. When

I was in my twenties, I was

always a designated driver

and I always knew that, and I always

drove because I knew I

could get home safe. I was

in charge of my own safety. If I didn’t

drink, I was aware. I knew

I wasn’t going to get raped,

no one was going to attack me, and I had

a means to get away. So it was like,

I’m going into an unknown environment. No

way am I going in there

with alcohol or anything else

on board, because I don’t know what’s

going to happen. So it was

great for us because there’s

so many other stimulus. Once the hormones

start going, I mean, I

was just high from all the

endorphins. And so as we progressed in

the lifestyle, we were

like, “Oh, maybe we’ll have

a drink. Maybe we’ll have two drinks.”

And that’s when I started

to notice that my consent,

I’d say yes to things that I normally

wouldn’t if I hadn’t been

drinking. And so at the time,

you’re like, “Weee, this is fun. I’m

having a good time.” But

then the next day, you’re like,

“Yeah, that wasn’t so great.” And you

start to have regrets, and the memory

starts to come back,

and you go, “Yeah, that probably wasn’t

my best decision.” And

so we started to dial that

back to that drinking back because it

wasn’t satisfying. Go ahead.

And that’s what I was going to say too,

is that it wasn’t

necessarily that you were making

decisions that you regretted. Half the

time, it was, “I don’t

remember what happened as clearly

as I want to. I want to have those

memories. I want to be able to play that

tape back in my head

and go, “Oh, yeah, that was a lot of

fun.” And oftentimes after

those events, I would go,

“Did you know what happened?” And you’re

like, “Ah, I kind of

remember details, but it’s kind

of fuzzy.” Yeah. And then you feel like

crap. Because you’re

like, “I really wanted to

really enjoy that experience with

somebody and to not be fully present felt

disingenuous and I’ve

felt bad about myself also in my role

with that other individual.”

And then the tables would turn

on us as well where someone had been

drinking and doing Molly

and literally an hour later,

he’s like, “When we’re trying to leave,”

he goes, “Gosh, it’s so

great. It would have been so

great to have sex with you.” And I’m

like, “Here’s a video.” He literally

didn’t even remember an

hour later. And that’s when I went,

“Okay, now I feel like crap.” So I

thought, “This is not good.

Let’s make a shift. Let’s change course

with what we’re doing and

who we’re doing it with.”

Yeah. I respect that. I feel pretty

strongly that if you need that kind of

social lubricant to be

able to have sex with the strangers, then

maybe you need to

interrogate that a little bit because

I can have really dirty, filthy fucking

sex. Stone cold sober.

No shame, no reservations.

And I would encourage

you to try to get there.

That sounds like a great

place. It’s a great place to be.

I know. I like it. I know. And there’s

some further, deeper research we could…

I like that. We can title that something.

“My Stone Cold Dirty Hot

Sex Sober.” I like that.

I like where that’s going. We can make a

acronym out of that.

So if you want to use cannabis in that

space, let’s say you’ve

got severe anxiety or you’re

just… You’re really socially awkward.

We’ve got some friends in

the lifestyle that really

kind of need that to take that edge off

because they really aren’t

that great at functioning

with other people or groups. How could

they use it and still be

responsible and have consent?

Yeah, absolutely. So the first thing I

would do is I would make sure to bone up

on my self-regulation

grounding practices, like absent

substances. Make sure that you know how

to do deep breathing and

embodiment practices so that if you do

start to get panicky in a

group setting that you can calm

yourself down. And when you’re talking

about weaving cannabis

into it, there’s two things

I would say. The first is there is a

really amazing Japanese

word, which I may be pronouncing

wrong, so apologies to anyone who speaks

Japanese, but it’s “orioki,” which

translates to “that which

is just enough.” And that, I think, is a

really good guiding

principle for using cannabis

in a social setting where use just enough

to get you to where you feel

comfortable and balanced and

like yourself, but not to the point that

you are stoned off your ass

and acting like someone else.

Yeah, solid advice. We’d done an early

episode because we’d

seen so many people…

Turns out they were later actually

dealing cocaine at

these parties too, so it was

pretty hardcore drug use. But there were

a lot of people who were

kind of in our age range,

and they were reliving their frat years.

So I mean, just like heavy

alcohol use, like ridiculously

intoxicated. So we did an episode about

it and how it was basically

not such a fun thing for everybody else,

let alone them, not to

mention the whole consent thing.

We did a whole episode about this, and we

had a friend of ours later

became a friend call us on

it because of course we were in a sense

implying that all drug use

was bad. And we were saying,

“Well, no, it’s not that. It’s just that

all of our experiences so

far have been pretty crappy

with it.” It really did come down to that

regulation and knowing

kind of what your dosage is

and being able to use just enough as you

were saying. But

also, and this was the big

thing that we both agreed on, and that

was don’t try it for the first

time at a party or don’t take

something that someone else hands you.

We’ve made that mistake before

at a party and it was a rough

night. We’ll just say that. It was a

rough night. Yeah, don’t let

someone else pick your path for

you. That’s real dangerous. I run into

that. I’m allergic to peppers, and so I

can’t do spicy food.

And I have told so many people, I used to

say, “I can’t do spicy

food.” And people would be like,

“Oh, this isn’t that spicy. It’s not

spicy at all.” And I would take a bite

and immediately my tongue

would go numb and my stomach would start

to churn. And I’m like, “You don’t get to

decide that for me.”

So now I’ve just started telling people

I’m allergic to peppers

and that saves time. But

to your point, don’t do it with a new

person. Don’t do it in a

new situation. Don’t do it for

the first time at a party setting and

don’t take somebody else’s

drugs. From a purely risk

management harm reduction perspective,

powdery drugs, Bali, Coke,

ketamine, all of those different

things. No. Everything’s laced with

fentanyl. You haven’t tested

those drugs. You are rolling

the dice with your life. And I actually

carry Narcan with me

anywhere I go, but a lot of people

don’t. And so it’s important to be

mindful of those things. And

especially when you are doing

drugs, it can be very easy to have the

inhibitions gone and you’re like,

“Everything is awesome.

Everybody loves me. Life is great.

Nothing bad could ever

happen.” And that’s not reality.

Yeah. I would really encourage people

that if you are going to be using, even

let’s just say cannabis

in a group setting, negotiate, like go

sober, negotiate, figure

out who you’re going to play

with, what you’re going to do, what’s on

the table, what’s not

on the table, boundaries,

aftercare, all of those kinds of

discussions, then what you’re hoping to

achieve by consuming,

let’s say cannabis, and what you’re

expecting it to do for you.

And also like how to take care of

you if it doesn’t do that for you, if it

takes you into a place

that you weren’t expecting.

And then go ahead and have your fun. But

it requires more legwork.

Right. It does. Requires a plan, like you

said, the aftercare, maybe even someone’s

over in the room to observe. Yeah, it’s

good to have a lifeguard on duty.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, we learned

very quickly from that

one night and it was simply

an infused joint. It wasn’t anything

extreme, but the concentrations of THC

right now in products

are so high. And if you do not have any

kind of familiarity with

it, that’s a very short slope

to a double black diamond. You’re just

wrong. Right. I find, I love the idea

of us all just being able to use our

words and saying, “Hey, we

find you really attractive.

We would really love some playtime with

you. What is your play

style?” And then you start to have

this exchange. “Great. I’m looking for

this tonight. What are

you in for?” But nobody,

I can’t say with an absolute that nobody

does that. It’s uncommon.

And less common still is safer

sex conversations and barrier

conversations. And those conversations

are hard to have sober,

but they’re much harder to have

intoxicated if they are had at all. So

those are the conversations

that you really need to be having on the

front end before you take anything. Yeah.

Yeah. Yes, for sure. Those consent

conversations are also challenging when

you’re at a house party

and the music’s loud and you can’t get

away or you follow someone to the

bedroom, but you have

to be quiet because there’s play going

on. So then you have to

step out of the room. And so

a lot of swingers are just, they try to

go with the flow because they

don’t want to ruin the vibe.

But now they’re kind of consenting to

something they really don’t want to

because they’re afraid

to either speak up or afraid to make a

scene or to offend

somebody. So there’s all these fears

about everybody else. And our primary

function is to take care of

us, number one. Right. And we

kind of tend to fail to do that, I think

more often than not, which… Well, and

we live in this very

people pleasing, not wanting to ruin the

vibe kind of society, where

if something starts to happen

that crosses your boundary, you are

likely, if you’re a people

pleaser, to go along with it

because you’re like, “Well, I’m better at

managing my own

discomfort than someone else’s,

so I’ll just bite the bullet and take one

for the team.” And that is

not the kind of sex I want to

be having. Exactly. Yeah. And you can

definitely tell when you’re

having sex with someone who’s

doing that, there’s this kind of distance

between the people. It’s

there. You can tell that they’re

just not into it in some way. And that

is, it’s very distracting and

it’s kind of disturbing too.

I feel weird about it. We’re kind of

leading into fucking

skilled lovers versus novelty,

but before we get there, we’re starting

to touch on STIs and

having that conversation

about testing and things like that. You

taught at Planned Parenthood

and the reproductive health

and sexual education. And so I really

would love for you to talk

about these testing windows and

incubation periods because there is this

false sense of security in

the lifestyle about their

tests. They got their little test and

they’re like, “Oh, three

days before a trip to Desiree,

I got tested.” And you’re like, “That

means just shit.” Yeah. In my mind. But

everyone else is like,

it’s like a badge of honor. Like, “Check,

I’m safe.” And I’m like, “Mm.” That

doesn’t mean what you

think it means. Talk about why that may

not be the case. There’s so

many reasons. First of all,

so I have HSV2, which is genital herpes.

So I have to have the

safer sex STI conversation with

all of my new partners because I believe

in informed consent. And

so I have to like, “Okay,

things are getting hot and heavy. Pants

are starting to look like

they might come off. All

right, pause. Just need to let you know I

have herpes. That’s cool.

I’m take meds, whatever.”

But some people, that freaks them out.

And some people are like,

“Cool, me too. High five.” And

we continue on with our conversation. I

love those people. Those

are my favorite people.

But a standard panel at Planned

Parenthood does not include herpes. So

you come out with your,

“Look at my flashy all negative test

panel. Well, cool.” They

tested you for chlamydia,

gonorrhea, HIV syphilis, possibly

trichomonas, maybe hep C. But

they almost certainly didn’t

test you for herpes unless you were

having symptoms. Now there

are some other, especially

like Swinger companies that do herpes

testing as part of their

standard panel. However,

the tests are unreliable for herpes

because they’re a blood

test. It’s an IgG serum test.

And all it means is that you have enough

of it in your blood. You

could test positive and never

have had an outbreak in your life. That’s

very possible. You can also

test negative and still be

positive because you just got a false

negative on your test.

So that’s not as like foolproof. And also

the tests, regardless of

what you’re getting tested

for, let’s say it’s something as common

as chlamydia, which by

the way, the most common

symptom of chlamydia is no symptoms. So

when people are like, “Oh,

I’m not having any symptoms.

I’m clean.” First of all, if somebody

says, “I’m clean,” just mark that as a

red flag in your brain

because that’s really stigmatizing

language. But also your

test is only reflective of what

your status was the day you took the

test. It’s only good for the

first person you fuck afterward.

As soon as you have sex with someone

else, your test is

essentially null and void because maybe

they used condoms for you and they just

got tested for you. But

two days later, they fuck

some five people at a party bareback and

then they fuck you two

days later and you’re still

going off your old information. There’s

just so many variables of

like, “Are you okay? You got

tested. Great. What are your safer sex

protocols? Cool. You use

condoms. Great. For what? Just for

penetration? Do you use condoms for oral?

Do you use dental dams?”

Because you can get chlamydia

and gonorrhea in your throat. And I don’t

know very many people at all who use

dental dams for oral.

Exactly. I’ve never seen one.

I feel with STIs, the reason that you get

tested is to be proactive

in case you caught something, not to

prevent yourself from

ever getting anything.

Yes.

So I get tested every three months like

clockwork. I have conversations with my

partners. I use condoms

for penetration with everyone who’s not a

fluid bonded partner and I have all those conversations.

But I also know that I’m non-monogamous

and having sex in group

settings. There’s a very good chance

at some point in my life I’m going to end

up with chlamydia or

gonorrhea or something.

So the other thing that you can do is

there are medications called PEP and

PrEP. A lot of people

know what PrEP is, but sometimes people

don’t know about PEP, which is post-exposure prophylaxis.

And now there’s something called doxy PEP

that if you take this

medication within a certain window

of time, it basically inoculates you

against whatever you may

have been exposed to that’s

bacterial. And so one, if you’re a

swinger or any kind of

non-monogamous having group sex,

especially unprotected, I would encourage

you to be on PrEP just generally, which is for HIV

prevention. And if you are going to be

going to a party or whatever,

go to your clinic and get doxy

PEP and regular PEP. These medications

exist, use them. And if

you’re not going to use

condoms and you’re not going to have

saber sex conversations,

the least you can do is take

medication. Right. Right. Right.

Fascinating. Yeah. Another thing that you talked about it,

and that is you’re only as good as the

last person you had sex with in terms of

your test. Your test

is only as good as the last person you

had sex with. There’s also

the thing that we like to

emphasize too, which is false negatives

on tests and the kind of the

incubation period for a lot

of things that won’t show up on a test.

So you could have been

tested and it just doesn’t show

up on the test yet because the viral load or whatever hasn’t reached the nuff. Oh, for sure.

Yeah. If you use it with an orgy and then

you get tested the next day,

that test isn’t accurate for

what you just did. All of those

infections have a varying window. So it’s

not just wait this period

of time, wait a month, wait three weeks,

wait a week. It varies

depending on which thing you may

have been exposed to. And you don’t know

what you’ve been exposed

to. Otherwise, you wouldn’t

have exposed yourself in the first place.

I know. Yeah. So, yeah, I think that’s a good point.

It’s really important to be checking in

with your healthcare

provider or clinic and double

checking the incubation periods for the

various things. Because

there’s so many of them. I could

rattle off, but it’s a long list and I

don’t want to be wrong. So go do your

research. That’s part

of being a sexually active, responsible

adult. Yeah. And I think

the, so I have two things.

One of them is that kind of accepting a

level of risk because you’re

choosing to be non-monogamous

and you’re in orgies and you’re going to

have the fun. You’re

rolling the dice. It’s just a

matter of time for something to happen.

And I think that that’s important for

people to acknowledge

if they’re getting into the lifestyle

that there’s a chance. Now you can

diminish your risks by

obviously safer sex practices and using

condoms and whatnot.

The other thing that I was curious about,

because I’ve had

listeners write to us about

PrEP and PrEP and Doxy PrEP. What’s the

safety with that? Because

I know with some of those,

taking them on a regular or consistent

basis isn’t necessarily a good thing.

Well, what do you know? Like I’m not a

lawyer. I’m also not a doctor. So I would

encourage you to ask

a healthcare provider those questions,

but broadly.

Absolutely. Let’s just take PrEP.

I don’t take PrEP because it can over the

long term contribute to

bone loss and osteoporosis

runs in my family. So for me, I know that

I’m going to probably get

osteoporosis someday and

I don’t want to make it worse. Whereas I

one, I’m comfortable with

the risks and I have had

sex with HIV positive undetectable

partners very comfortably.

And so that doesn’t, I would

be more worried about the osteoporosis

than my HIV risk. And so

for me, that’s the choice.

For some, there can be some kidney

issues. So it really does depend on you,

your personal concerns,

your medical history. And it’s a really

important conversation to have with your

healthcare provider,

because it’s a decision to make. And so

you have to really see

where the areas of risk are most

alive in your life and what’s going to be

the most appropriate

choice for your personal life.

There’s no one right decision, but I can

tell you that with the

proliferation of PrEP,

I work with the LA LGBT center. And as of

next year, because of their efforts,

there will be less than 500 cases of HIV

in LA in LA County. So

like they have essentially

added the HIV epidemic in LA County,

which is wildly amazing. And it’s

entirely because of the

efforts of those kinds of providers

giving out PrEP for free, making it

accessible, making condoms

available, having free testing. And so

like that should be a model

to the world for what we can do

when people are really careful and

thoughtful about their

health and they have resources.

That’s fantastic. Do you, maybe you can

tell me, do they use kind

of a harm reduction model

as a basis for that program down there in

LA in terms of kind of

meeting people where they are

and stigma free or a judgment free?

Absolutely. Yeah, it’s all about harm

reduction. They do needle

exchange, they have free Narcan,

like they’re not here to judge you for

your lifestyle. You can

tell them that you just

gangbang the football team and they’ll be

like, cool, what do you

want to get tested for?

And you might feel a little like crunchy

talking to your primary

care doctor who’s been treating

you since you were 12 to have that

conversation. But that’s why things like

LGBT centers exist and

why they’re so important.

Yeah, I have some history with the Santa

Cruz needle exchange

program and their harm reduction

model and it was enlightening to learn a

lot about that and it’s

good to hear that that’s still

continuing with other areas. It’s awesome

and showing good results

too. I mean statistically

that’s fantastic and I think it’s a good

model for other counties.

Yeah, red states, take note, this is how

you fix problems. You

don’t just preach abstinence.

Yes.

In regards to herpes, I think a lot of

people are ignorant, they’re just

ill-informed and don’t

really know. And there’s this stigma

around it and they hear the word and it’s

like, and they freak

out. How do you educate somebody? Because

if they go, “I guess

I’m still interested in

having sex with you, tell me more.” Do

they actually, are they open

to that? Or if you get the,

“Oh my God,” and run away, then you’re

just like, “Okay, next.” I mean, if

they’re not open to the

conversation, then why bother, right?

Honestly, in some ways having herpes has

been kind of a godsend in

terms of a litmus test for

sexually evolved humans. Because if their

reaction is, “Ew, gross, that’s

disgusting, you’re dirty,”

anything like that, then I’m like, “Wow,

thank you so much. I’m very

sure that sex with you would

have been deeply unsatisfying. So I

appreciate you saving me time.” That kind

of closed-mindedness

and stigma as it relates to sexuality, I

think is a red flag. So I

appreciate when people are either

like, “Oh, either one, me too, I’ve been

getting cold sore since I

was a kid and no big.” Or

“Actually, could you tell me more? I’m

curious. I’d like to

understand a little bit more about

risks and things like that.” Or just

like, “Yeah, my girlfriend had it or my

ex had it and it’s fine,

no worries.” Those are all green flags

for me. I think there is

still a lot of stigma, not just in

the Swinger community, but in the world.

I cringe every time a late night host

makes a herpes joke.

I’m like, “Really? Are we still there?

That’s the low-hanging

fruit that you’re swatting at

right now? Come on.” Because like you

said, it is incredibly common. Over 90%

of people ages 14 to

49 have HSV1, which is oral. And if you

have a cold sore or if you

are virally shedding and you

go down on someone, you could give them

herpes, generally. And so

the way that people are like,

“Oh, I just get cold sores,” or, “Oh,

it’s just a fever blister.” It’s like,

“No, it’s herpes. It’s

fine.” You just say the word. It’s okay.

And genital is not

inherently a word. They’re both

contagious if you’re not paying

attention. But there is

medicine. I take a daily suppressive

medication. So that keeps me from having

outbreaks by and

large. And it also keeps me

from having viral shedding. And the only

time it’s contagious is

when you are having an active

outbreak or you are having viral

shedding. So if neither of those things

are true, you cannot give

someone herpes. Perfect. Happy to help.

Thank you. Everyone is all educated. It

wouldn’t be a podcast

without some education. At least ours.

All right. That’s

awesome. Okay. Did you have

anything else, my love? No, no. I think

that’s great. We’ve had

this conversation with other

people and we’ve done some research and

your statistics about

pretty much everybody having

it, and especially with the asymptomatic

nature of HSV1, it’s almost

impossible to know whether

you have it unless you’ve gotten a test.

And if you don’t have an

outbreak, why would you go get

tested for it? Yeah. So we’re all

spreading it around to everybody else

without even knowing.

Right. So know what you need to know. And

if you have one type,

you’re less likely to get the

other type. Not completely foolproof, but

if you already have

antibodies for let’s say HSV1,

then you are less likely to acquire HSV2.

Oh, interesting. Oh, good

to know. I didn’t know that.

Hmm. Okay, cool. Ooh, learn something

new. All right. Let’s talk

about fucking skilled lovers

versus naughty lovers. And I was

listening to Double Teamed and the

conversation you guys are

having about skilled lovers and all of

that. And we are what, 10,

11 years now into swinging.

And most of our sex we’ve discovered, of

course, years later,

you look back and you go,

you know what? I think we’re pretty much

DTF all this whole time. I

didn’t really even realize

that till now. And we’re like, oh, cool.

Woo, high five. But a lot

of that sex was novelty sex.

And I loved the variety, the differences,

that it’s the scene, it’s

who’s there, it’s what happened

organically. We’ve had some really

amazing soft swap experiences. In fact,

some of those are our

favorite. And sometimes you do, you get

in this really cool space

where no one’s giving consent,

but you see in their eyes that they’re

consent, you know, they’ll

put a hand, kind of like,

can I touch? And you give a nod and

there’s this thing and no

one’s offended. And it goes really

well, but that doesn’t happen all the

time. Sometimes you do

have to swat a hand, a random

hand that’s coming up behind you and

touching you and you’re like, what?

Hello? Like, I’m busy

over here. What gave you the permission

to just do that? But the novelty sex,

which worked for us in

the beginning because we didn’t want that

level of intimacy with

people because we started swinging

before we were married while we were

dating one another. So we,

having another level of intimacy

for me felt threatening because I didn’t

want to ruin or disrupt our new

relationship because it

was new. And so because this was going to

be my third marriage, I

was like, it’s three and I’m

done. If this gets fucked up, I’m just

going to be single the rest of my life

because I’m not going

on four, five, six, right? I’m going to

get it right. And I’d

scoured what I felt like was the

entire planet and I didn’t find anyone.

And then he lands in my lap

and I’m like, wow, okay. So the

diamond was there. And so I felt very

protective of it. So I’m like, I don’t

really care what your

name is. Let’s just fuck. This is going

to be fun. But now I want

something more. I want a little,

a richer experience because I’m getting

into that sensory play and I have

experienced some of the

sensory play and I have experienced some

of the BDSM and I’m like

really loving that experience.

And honestly, what I really love is the

mental part of it, that

asking, can I touch you? I mean,

oh my God, that’s just like, I love when

somebody asks me that, you know, would

you like a kiss here?

Would you like a kiss there? Is it all

right? If I touch here, oh, I

would love to do this to you.

Would that be okay? Like my brain just

goes bananas and I love

that. And we don’t do that

in swinging. So this is where you’re

trying to have more of an intimate,

purposeful connection

with somebody that’s going to have a

richer, more full experience, but the

parties don’t really lend

itself to that. But they are the best way

to try and find people and

see how you gel and try before

you buy, so to speak. So it’s

challenging. So Ed and I

have kind of slowed down a bit

in that regard to try and find honestly

better lovers, a more

meaningful interaction.

And how has that been for you and your

journey over time

with your progression of

sex and relationships and what you want?

How has that changed what you want?

Well, it’s, you know, like everyone

that’s evolved over time, but I do want

to draw a distinction.

There’s a little bit of a false dichotomy

here where you can

have anonymous, casual,

like slightly detached sex that’s still

highly communicative,

negotiated, and intimate.

Like those two things are not mutually

exclusive. I think it

requires you to be a lot more

self-aware and situationally aware, which

not all people are. And

also, oh man, I want to dive into

the psychology of like trying to protect

the relationship by only

having casual interactions

with others because there’s so much in

there as a relationship coach that I

would want to pick apart.

But because this is not a coaching

session for you, I’m going

to leave that to the side.

And I see actually a lot

of this in the Tantra world.

Tantra communities tend

to do this really well,

where you can really drop in

with someone for five minutes

and have like a

transformative, transcendent,

orgasmic, like mind blowing experience.

Never know their name,

never see them again.

Like those things are possible,

but you have to be savvy.

And I think what I would

say about the Swinger world

is there can be a

little bit of sloppiness

and a little bit of laziness.

Like there seems to be,

and this is not true for everyone

by any stretch of the imagination.

And this is not certainly

not exclusive to Swingers,

but there seems to be

a little bit of like,

I just want it to be easy.

I don’t want to have to think about it.

I don’t want to have to try real hard.

I just want to like get

off and move on with my day

so that we can kind of check the box.

It like, look, sweetie, we

have a spicy relationship.

We fucked a couple last weekend.

Like cool story.

What’s actually going

on in a relationship?

(both laughing)

But like I really,

and the way that this

relates to my journey

is I feel very strongly

that I will be the change

I want to see in the bedroom.

And if I want to manifest the kind of sex

that is most appealing to me,

which is really skillful, high level,

hot, intimate, consent focused, dirty as

all fucking get out,

like filthy, kinky, all the things,

then I need to come with that ability

to have those conversations

and to co-create that experience

with whoever happens to

be sitting in front of me

if they are equally open

to an experience like that.

I’m a strong dancer.

I can lead you if

you’re willing to be led.

So for me, it comes down to like,

how do I want to show up?

What vibe do I want to send out?

And who am I attracting

with the way that I relate

to people in those settings?

And that tends to set me up with success.

And then also how

skillfully can I say like,

oh no, actually like I

don’t want to do anal tonight.

You know, I saw that you were getting

close to my asshole.

I just wanted to check

in and then let you know

that that’s a boundary for me.

Like, can I do that kind

of seamlessly in the moment

or am I going to sit

there like clenching,

kind of squirming away

from you, hoping you notice?

Right. Right.

Right.

Yeah, and I think it sounds to me like,

and I’m going to try and

paraphrase what you said,

but it sounds almost like mindfulness,

like being very present in the moment

and kind of taking

that experience as it is

and really paying attention to your lover

and what their cues are,

but also being able to

communicate what you want

and listening to what they want.

And that ability to

say that having a voice

is pretty challenging.

And when we talked about,

you know, being people pleasers

and being afraid of

hurting people’s feelings,

I think that’s where a lot of the bad sex

comes from in swinging.

And that is, I don’t

really want to rock the boat.

So I’m just going to like

pretend that this was fun

and he’ll go away happy.

She’ll go away happy, whatever.

And you walk away

from it and you’re like,

“It’s all right.”

Yeah, it’s okay.

Yeah, or I don’t want to be guilty

of robbing that partner’s experience.

Yeah, we did a lot of

orgies in the beginning,

a lot of, that was just what was around.

That was the easiest and they were fun.

And I liked the energy and I

would feed off that energy,

but there really wasn’t

time for a lot of mindfulness

during that, because

it’s just a sea of bodies.

And there’s a lot of

aspects I love to it.

Really what I love about it is the energy

and the sensory play.

I really could care less

about the penetrative sex

because it takes me a

while to have a really good

penetrative sex orgasm.

So it really can’t be an orgy situation.

It has to be a setting where there aren’t

any other distractions.

So while the lifestyle has

been really fun and beneficial

in a lot of ways, I’ve

learned a ton about myself

and my sexuality and

asking for what I want

and using my voice and

telling people softer, slower,

nibble here, pinch

there, grind there, right?

Deeper, faster, all those things.

I mean, I’ve really

improved my own experience

by just saying it, which seems so simple,

but sometimes I don’t

know why you don’t do that.

What’s that like?

We’re not, I don’t know.

It’s something maybe

we just have to learn

an evolution of our own sexuality.

Well, I have an opinion on that,

but I’d love to hear

Ashley’s thought on that.

Yeah, I think there’s a lot of growth

that can be had in these communities.

And I think one of the

really big growth edges

for swingers, not just

swingers by any means,

like I don’t mean to

come down on swingers.

This is across the board

in every group sex situation

I’ve ever really been in,

other than the Kink community.

They’ve got it pretty solidly dialed in.

But there’s this very like binary

understanding of consent.

Like consent has

finally become a buzzword,

but it’s still very like,

yes to this, no to that,

yes to this, no to that.

Where there is a really

amazing educator named Betty Martin

who has come up with

something called the wheel of consent,

which is a circle with four quadrants.

And on one side it’s

who’s doing the thing

and who’s it being done too.

And then it’s for me, it’s for you.

Because being clear on what’s being done

and who it’s for is a really

important nuance to consent

that I don’t think gets

considered very often.

Because there are people

who get off on the anonymity,

the danger, the sort of free flowing,

like one of my friends

hosts gay, 40 nights in LA.

And these guys show up

with recent test results

and a jock strap, they check their

clothes at the door.

And then it’s just

like, oh, there’s a hole.

I’m going to stick my dick in it.

And like, there’s no conversation.

And like, that’s what

they’re going there for.

Love that for you.

I’m not here to shame you

or tell you that that’s bad or wrong.

If that’s what you’re going for,

then those spaces

absolutely exist for you.

Where it gets tricky is if one person

is seeking an experience like that

and the other is seeking like you,

a more like slow, sensual,

like really thoughtful experience.

And there’s no way to

know that one person is here

and the other person is

there without talking about it.

And so, if somebody

comes up to you and is like,

hi, I’m trying to suck as

many dicks as I can tonight.

Can I please suck yours?

It’s for me.

Like, I’m not actually going to do it

maybe even in the way

that you like it or the way,

it’s not about you.

It’s about me checking a

dick sucking off my list

so I can add it to like the tally.

Then you can go,

yeah, that sounds awesome.

I’d love to help you out.

Or no, I have really strong opinions

about how my dick gets sucked.

So like, no, thank you.

Please move on to the next candidate.

(laughs) Yeah, yeah.

We have a friend in the lifestyle who’s,

actually we have several

ladies who are into the fantasy

of just like being drenched, bukkake.

They just want to be covered in it.

And it’s not a thing for me.

Like, it doesn’t really do much for me,

but I am happy to help fulfill that

particular need for her.

Taking one for the team.

(laughs)

That’s what does it for her.

Okay.

Sure, why not?

I’ll throw my coin in that fountain.

And we have another lifestyle friend

who loves gang bangs.

And she had like 50

guys at the power exchange

that were coordinated for her birthday,

I think on her 50th birthday.

Yeah, it was 50th birthday.

And so I asked her, I was deeply curious.

I was like, okay, so what, how was that?

What did you like about it?

What is it that does it for you?

What is that thing?

And she said, and then when

she described it, I got it.

She goes, I really get

off on their approach,

how they approach me.

Some of them are timid.

Some of them are like a competent.

Some of them are, you know, shaking.

Like everyone, their

approach is different.

And she goes, I love being

able to just bring them in

no matter where they’re at

with their level of confidence.

And I was like, oh, I see, this is a,

you have all the power, I get it.

Ding.

And then it made sense to me.

Absolutely.

And I was like, ooh,

I’m getting this now.

So like, you just never know.

And this is why I

always ask because initially,

some people are like,

oh, we ain’t gang bang.

I’m like, yeah, but did you ask why?

I mean, there’s a reason.

I’m sure it’s really cool.

Oh, I’m so happy.

I now have a reason to tell this story.

Okay, so I last month in October,

oh, I guess now two months ago,

in October I had my

fallopian tubes removed.

So I am fully baby proof.

And in addition to

like feeling really safe

now that I have bodily

autonomy and I can’t get pregnant

and also I’ve lowered my

ovarian cancer risk by 80%,

I actually had a

conversation with my surgeon

about this very thing.

And as I was like in

getting prepped for surgery,

I mentioned that I was

going to hedonism in January

and I was so excited that

I’d be like there and sterile

and able to like have

a gang bang at hedonism

if I so chose and not have to

worry about getting pregnant.

And to my delight, the OR nurse was like,

I went to hedonism in 19…

I was like fuck yes made

my whole day. I love like

was female. It was so delightful. But

like, someday when I have

that gangbang experience

and I want to take 20 fucking loads over

and over, like just one

after another, I am not

interested in their skill level or how

well they’re fucking me. In

that moment, I just want as much

come inside of me as possible. And like,

that’s what we’re doing it

for. So that’s where like,

being clear about who’s it for, what’s

the goal, like how do you want

to feel at the end and having

everyone be on the same page about that

is really, really

important. Yeah. Oh, so much. So it’s

interesting. We’ve been having

conversations. We have issues with

labels. So classic example,

just because someone says that they’re

soft swap, the question

is, what does that mean?

You’re full swap. What does that mean?

Because it’s a definition

in a book, but everybody kind

of spins it their own way. So the

definition that we’ve been playing with

lately is, you know,

hot wife, hot husband, cock hold. And

that’s such a spectrum of

different types of interactions.

So to your point, two people getting into

a room and having a

conversation about a thing,

you got to get pretty specific because

it’s open to

interpretation. And so having that

intentional conversation about what you

want and what you want to get out of it,

we talk about consent all the time where

it’s like, don’t rattle off

the things that you don’t do.

Because that means there’s a whole bunch

of stuff on the plate.

Sexual activity is a pretty big

buffet. I mean, there’s so many things,

so many things. And even

saying, I want to do this,

you should be a little bit more specific

because it’s kind of how

you like to do it. So, yes,

you want to be IV sex. You want to have

full penetrative sex.

How? Fast, slow, deep,

so many variables. Grindy. I mean, like.

Yeah, I want you to go down on me, but

don’t lick my asshole

because once you touch my ass,

you have to go a Listerine before you can

touch my pussy again because booty

cooties don’t belong

in the vulva. So like, you got to be real

clear because some

people are like, oh, no, like,

I got so excited eating your pussy. I

wanted to eat your ass a

little bit. I’m like, no, no, no,

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Nope.

Don’t want the UTI. Thank you very much.

Like. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Although we did hear something

recently from Dr. Jen

Gunter about that, about wiping

forward to backward. And she was saying

that it’s actually less of a

thing than it’s been made out

to. I am not advocating that anybody go

from your butt to your

vulva at all. I’m just saying.

I love Jen Gunter, but I imagine like all

things, there’s room

for nuance there. Like,

there’s a very big difference between

somebody who’s wiping back

to front, who starts at their

vaginal opening and goes up versus

somebody who’s wiping from

their asshole up. Like there’s,

that’s not how you wipe poop off. You

know, nuance really

matters. And, and like you said,

there’s a very big difference between

sticking your tongue in someone’s

asshole, right? And then

licking their vulva around their urethra

and, you know, like wiping in a way that

is probably fine if you’re otherwise like

hygienic. A hundred percent.

A hundred percent, especially depending

on how much they’re

into licking your ass.

Because, you know, if

they’re like really into it.

Exactly. Yeah. How enthusiastic are you?

Now that we’re talking about assholes,

it just reminded me. This is a

fascinating fact because

I love fascinating facts.

We’re going to go back to cannabis in the

butt. Tell us why cannabis

in the butt doesn’t work.

What is this thing? It’s not that it

doesn’t work. It’s actually

an incredibly bioavailable and

effective way of consuming cannabis. What

it doesn’t do for most people is it

doesn’t get you high.

But it can relax you. Which is

interesting because if

you put Molly in your ass,

that will definitely

get you high. So I’m.

I used a suppository anally and it

actually did get high.

So I feel like it’s a very

much a your mileage may vary,

but I’m very sensitive to THC.

I only do like five milligram edibles.

And I have put 50,

100 milligrams in my ass

and just felt like chill.

Well, like a warm

blanket around my abdomen,

but not high at all.

So it is a great way

to bypass your liver,

which is one of the,

so it doesn’t metabolize

the same way as an edible does.

So that’s one of the

reasons that you don’t get high,

but that one is especially weird

considering that like,

it doesn’t get you high with cannabis,

but it absolutely will if

you put MDMA in your ass.

Or alcohol or caffeine.

Or alcohol or any other kind of

intoxicating substance.

So like that is where my health

and physiology knowledge fails me.

And if you are a rectal expert,

please shed light on why that is.

I would love to learn more.

Right?

Yeah, if any of you listening to this

are doctors or nurses,

and there are a very high

percentage of you listening

who are doctors and

nurses because we know

you’re in the lifestyle.

Let us know.

Yeah, because I’m

curious from kind of like

a physiology standpoint,

it makes sense that alcohol gets absorbed

through the intestinal walls, right?

There’s a lot of digestion that goes on

in that portion of the intestines.

You know, there’s tons

of blood vessels there.

So it makes a lot of

sense that it gets absorbed,

but then why not the cannabis?

That’s weird.

I know, right?

Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo.

I know.

I wanna wrap this up,

but I wanna also ask you,

what are your newest projects

and what does your 2025 look like?

I’m so glad you asked.

So my 2025 is starting out

on the best possible high note,

which is I am going to be

better at being bad week,

the naughty gym

takeover at Hedonism in Jamaica

from January 4th to the 11th.

I am one of the sex

experts who will be teaching.

I’m teaching dirty talk and

my live demo hand job class,

which was wildly

popular earlier this year.

And I’m also doing a

keynote on sex cannabis

and psychedelics.

Can’t imagine why.

That is like, ugh, chef’s kiss.

The best way I can

think of to start the year.

And I hope that I get to

start every year like that

moving forward.

When I get back,

I have two really cool

programs that I’m running.

One starts in January

and one starts in February.

And the February one is a brand new,

you all are the first

podcast to hear about it offering.

So yay.

The January is a program

I’ve been running since 2021.

It’s called Activating Your Cosmic Pussy.

And it is an online intensive for women,

all about sex magic, loving

your body, plant medicine,

owning your desires,

clearing your throat chakra,

like just basically

tapping into all of the pleasure

potential of your body

and like really owning that

and connecting with other

witchy, sexy, amazing women.

So that program starts in January

and that’s enrolling now.

And then my other

program that’s brand new is,

it’s called Attuning

to the Cosmic Orgasm.

And that is actually gonna

be a 90 day group coaching

program that is

available to everyone, over 21.

Everyone, whether you are,

you know, single, couple,

poly, triad, polycule,

like that’s all fine.

You can be any gender

under the sun, that’s all fine.

Like everyone is welcome.

And it’s gonna be a 90 day program.

We’ll do weekly 90 minute calls.

And then you’ll also have

access to a discord server

and everyone who

enrolls also gets a 45 minute

one-on-one with me, just one.

But everyone else, like the rest of it

is all in a group setting.

And it’s gonna be about really deep

Ooh, God, that sounds amazing.

Well, that’s really exciting.

I am going to go.

So I am going to go check that out.

I literally just put up

the website yesterday.

I’m so excited about it.

And in fact, you know, for

all of your Swinger University

listeners, I will offer a 15 percent

discount if they click

the link I will send you.

Fantastic. So we will put that link in

the show notes and you heard it.

Yeah. Yeah. That’s awesome.

That’s awesome.

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Really super excited about that.

I’m probably going to

be signing up for that.

I’d love to have you.

Oh, let’s see.

So if you if someone wanted to do a

virtual coaching session with you,

they can also do that

on your website, right?

Absolutely can.

They can set up a free discovery call

with me, which is like 20,

30 minutes of us just chatting.

You let me know whether you’re an

individual or partnered in any capacity.

Kind of what your goals are, what’s

really like of concern for you right now

and just like feel each other out and see

if we have a good vibe to work together.

And then I have coaching programs that

are just like one off sessions

or I do like three,

six, nine month programs.

Nice. That’s really nice.

I like that. I like the

idea that you do like a free.

20, what, 15 between 15 and 30 minutes

depends on like how

quickly we figure out.

Like, oh, yeah, I

definitely want to work with you.

But I feel like, you know,

coaches are like sneakers.

You really got to try it on and make sure

it’s the right fit for you.

If we’re going to be going to

like run a marathon together.

Yeah, makes a lot of sense.

That does make a lot of sense.

I don’t think anybody else

does that. I like that a lot.

Let’s see. Do do do.

And then if someone wants to book you for

your in person events,

like how do they do

that also on your website?

Just email me if you want to work with me

in pretty much any capacity.

You can just email me.

I also have some prerecorded like

standalone workshops from hand jobs

to how to be a booty

boss to energetic sex.

And you can find that on there’s a link

to it on my main website,

which is can asexual dot com.

But you can also go straight

to elevated intimacy dot com

that has all of my self paced online

courses where you’re like, you know what?

I’m not ready to work with you one on

one, but I’d like to learn.

I have a dirty talk course like that’s

all available for you

that you can just take in the privacy of

your own home at your own pace.

That’s right. I had that there like and

your five essentials steps to dirty talk.

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. That’s free, right?

That is free. The when you sign up

through the dirty talk,

I have like a kind of a lead gen thing

that you can just get

like a free dirty time starter guide.

Nice. See freebies all of this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

In this economy, I feel you guys like I

want to make this easy for you.

I’m expensive, but I’m worth it.

But I also have more affordable options.

Love that confidence.

Well, well, Ashley, thank you so, so much

for taking the time to be on our show.

We really appreciate your expertise and

your time with us today

because we know your time is valuable and

we just value you so, so much.

So thank you for being with us.

It was such a pleasure

chatting with you both.

I’m really, really excited

and thank you for having me.

Hey, I’m I’m really

excited about twenty, twenty five

for you and if we if we can do anything

to help propel you

forward, please let us know.

Thanks for tuning in.

We appreciate you joining our community.

Don’t forget your homework.

Tell a friend about our show.

And if you like, leave

a review and a comment.

You can also leave us a voicemail at nine

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we have a way way a way

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send us a couple in a row.

We’d love to hear from you.

We’d love to hear your stories.

Or if you have anything that you can tell

us about why your

colon will not absorb THC,

we’d love to know.

And as we say, keep learning, keep

growing and keep it sexy.

Oh, my God, that’s awesome.